- This topic has 20 replies, 8 voices, and was last updated 11 years, 3 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
But then they’d have to cocoon a solid reasoning for bringing back Rumple without doing the same to Malcolm/Pan. They both shared the same fate, being stabbed by the Dagger and fading into oblivion, and while we cling to the trope of “no body = no death” to hope for a return of Rumple we have to acknowledge that it also applies to Pan and it’s very within the realm of possibilites that we may see the villain return at some point in the future.
Well I think the major difference is the way in which they died. Pan was selfish to the bitter end, but Rumple sacrificed himself. Rumple was also currently the Dark One. So I think he has only be “undone” whereas MalcolmPan is dead dead.
[adrotate group="5"]"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"But then they’d have to cocoon a solid reasoning for bringing back Rumple without doing the same to Malcolm/Pan.
For me it would be enough of an explanation that Malcolm had the dagger go right through his body, in one side and out the other, then Rumple twisted it. Malcolm would have bled out pretty quickly with an injury like that. The fact he changed back into Malcolm suggests that his magic left him. So he was a mortal man with a major wound, and that equals dead.
Rumple is a different, more complicated, potential loop-hole containing case, because his fate was tied up with the Dark One Dagger being used, and the fact that he was sacrificing himself to save others.
Well I think the major difference is the way in which they died. Pan was selfish to the bitter end, but Rumple sacrificed himself. Rumple was also currently the Dark One. So I think he has only be “undone” whereas MalcolmPan is dead dead.
Indeed this could well be used as an explanation, but it’d have to be stated in the show, otherwise it’d come across as a plothole.
For me it would be enough of an explanation that Malcolm had the dagger go right through his body, in one side and out the other, then Rumple twisted it. Malcolm would have bled out pretty quickly with an injury like that. The fact he changed back into Malcolm suggests that his magic left him. So he was a mortal man with a major wound, and that equals dead.
Rumple is a different, more complicated, potential loop-hole containing case, because his fate was tied up with the Dark One Dagger being used, and the fact that he was sacrificing himself to save others.
But if it was as simple as stabbing Malcolm with the dagger for him to lose the power, why would Rumple feel the need to stab himself and commit suicide, thus taking them both into oblivion? I think this is likely to be simply due to Malcolm being in pain enough that he could not sustain the magic that was keeping him young anymore.
Look, maybe I’m just grasping at straws, but with Pan having been such a rich villain with a complex relationship with all the main cast, especially Rumplestiltskin, and the titular character in A & E’s favorite tale, I think it’s possible that they believe they can still do so much more with him, so long as he doesn’t keep that Big Bad aura of unstoppable force that the gang must destroy or it’ll be doom for everyone. In that sense, his Class A defeat in “Going Home” would work similarly to the one Angelus had in Buffy’s season 2 finale “Becoming”: he’d still be regarded as a threat in his later appearances, just not as the main one of the storyline.
They established very early this season, that Rumple could not kill Peter without killing himself. “If he dies, I die”. And Regina never questioned Rump,e when he said it, implying that she understood 100% what Rumple meant by that.
Honestly, when you look at this whole first half of the season, nothing adds up. Storybrooke is gone, oops, no it’s not. Emma will never remember, oops, yes she will. Rumple is dead, oops, no he’s not. Next time I see Bae I will be putting his son in his arms, oops, no you didn’t. Regina, 100% redeemed! I doubt it. There is no cure for dreamshade, uh, yeah there is. You can never leave Neverland, oops, you can, if you have a coconut. Peter Pan never fails…..oops? (He better be dead.) Honestly there were more mistruths told about Neverland than I can remember.I’m convinced that the WWW only comes to the EF as a means to not only exact vengeance against big sister Regina, but I think the WWW will be fleeing from her own villainess hence the “New Queen” who I believe is the Wicked Witch of the East who has taken over Oz and became it’s Queen. But I suspect we won’t meet the WWE/New Evil Queen till around 3×19 because I think the feud between #WickedSisters will last till they come to a truce when they have to come together to take down the WWE who is the main villain of S4!! That’s my theory!
"If you go as far as you can see...you will then see enough to go even further." - Finn Balor
But if it was as simple as stabbing Malcolm with the dagger for him to lose the power, why would Rumple feel the need to stab himself and commit suicide, thus taking them both into oblivion? I think this is likely to be simply due to Malcolm being in pain enough that he could not sustain the magic that was keeping him young anymore.
Like Cinders said, there was the whole thing where if Rumple killed Pan, he’d die himself. I do hope we get some clarification on the why of that, but I don’t really think it’s necessary to understand the reasoning behind it in order to accept that Malcolm would be dead. With the Shadow gone *poof*, and then Pan’s magic seeming to have *poofed* away in that cloud of black smoke when he became Malcolm again, I think that Malcolm was just stuck as a mortal man with a knife going right through him, and that’s just not surviveable. It was the Shadow that bestowed Pan with his youth and magic, so with the Shadow gone, there’s no way for Malcolm to get it back, even if he did survive the stabbing.
Look, maybe I’m just grasping at straws, but with Pan having been such a rich villain with a complex relationship with all the main cast, especially Rumplestiltskin, and the titular character in A & E’s favorite tale, I think it’s possible that they believe they can still do so much more with him, so long as he doesn’t keep that Big Bad aura of unstoppable force that the gang must destroy or it’ll be doom for everyone. In that sense, his Class A defeat in “Going Home” would work similarly to the one Angelus had in Buffy’s season 2 finale “Becoming”: he’d still be regarded as a threat in his later appearances, just not as the main one of the storyline.
I’m not that familiar with Buffy, (only seen random eps from time to time), so dunno how it played out on that show, but I wouldn’t want a watered down version of Pan. They built him up to be a BIG bad, and then they had him die in a seriously dramatic way, still staying his horrible self to his dying breath, (I don’t think anyone believed he was being sincere in those final Malcolm moments), and I think that was a fitting end for him. Like I said in the previous paragraph, I don’t even know that Malcolm could get the Pan powers back with the Shadow now gone as well, so I doubt that they even could logically reinstate him to his Pan self.
One other reason why I think Malcolm is 100% dead is that having to do that was some karmic retribution for Rumple having put Regina in the position where she’d had to kill her father too. If they allow Malcolm to survive, it lessens the impact of Rumple’s action of having had to kill him.
I think Malcolm is dead because he wasn’t saved. He didn’t deserve to be saved; aside from all his sins as a father back THEN, what he did as Pan to his own son, what he said..and then of course what he was going to do? Nope…..He lived a lot longer (as Pan) than he had a right to, so it’s his time to die.
The thing I wonder about though is the fact that Rumple kissed his father right before they “died.” I think that was put there to make you wonder, but it DOES make me wonder. The fact that Belle has made Rumple a better man by continuing to remind him that regardless of all the horrible things he has done – there is still good in him, makes me think that he would have honored Belle by taking that part of her spirit with him and giving the same benefit of the doubt to his own father – hence the kiss. And I actually think they may have set it up to make hate Malcom so much because he was such a horrendous father that we would have difficulty believing that the kiss could be a TLK. But I think that when Malcome turned into Pan there was a brief moment of regret when the shadow was taking Rume away – I think when he turned back into Malcome, right before he died there could have been a similar brief moment of regret when he realized what he had wasted – if the kissed was timed right, it could have been TLK. It would be very similar to what happened when Cora had her heart shoved back into her body. She was a horrible mother but when she got her heart back she realized she loved her daughter and that having a life with Rumple and Regina would have been enough to make her happy – right before she died, she was “redeemed” in a way. It would be interesting to have Malcom end up paying a price for his sins by having to remain as Pan (since everyone really liked Robbie Kay) but then turn into the more traditional Peter Pan – not nasty and evil. He wears green, he fits in with the Season 4 Oz theme!
I don’t believe that was TLK – Gold’s TL is Belle, we saw that and we’ve always seen that. That was a beautiful kiss and it showed truly how much love this man has in his heart, but his curse started to break the moment he thrust that dagger in further, when it really hit his own body…..that’s when the gold light showed up. Frankly, in my head, Gold was starting to weaken the curse as he continued to change as a man, but as far as breaking it, that really happened because of the enormity of his sacrifice
Just like with Emma there are many kinds of true love – Emma has true love with Henry but I don’t doubt that we will eventually have her romantic true love moment as well (kiss or not).
I am talking more about Pan’s curse than Gold’s. I think the DO curse was broken when Gold used the dagger on Pan/Malcome but he kissed his father before they were carried away in the smoke. Although Malcome saw being Pan as his dream I think it was really a curse but he just didn’t recognize it. So staying with the theory that without a body there is no death, I still think the kiss could have been significant.
We have seen TLK not work because people have lost their memories even they really DO love the other person. It is possible it could work the other way. Just like with Cora. She didn’t have a heart so she didn’t know she loved Regina. What if someone thinks they don’t love someone but they really do? Like Malcome? He is clearly evil and became seriously messed up on NL. What if he really loved Rumple but just didn’t know or understand (like when he looked like he first regretted becoming Pan). Maybe TLK can work then. It wouldn’t change that Belle is Rumple’s romantic TL. Just a theory.
The topic ‘Fashion Style reports New Queen in S3’ is closed to new replies.