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Agree. Regina was setting up Sydney to murder her husband. Of course, Regina was going to slant things to make Sydney sympathize with her and do her dirty work for her.
This is funny because the argument is that somehow Regina is responsible for all of her choices despite being manipulated, but Leopold was not. There was no way Leopold could have been manipulated if he didn’t a) read Regina’s diary b) lock her in a tower c) ask the Genie to find the man who she was ‘in love with’.
It is interesting how people see two different things while watching the same source material.
[adrotate group="5"]Ugh, I’m annoyed by the fan theory that it’s not actually Belle’s heart.
We SAW Belle behave as Aurora and Graham behaved when controlled by their hearts (Killian less so, as Rumple was torturing him with it rather than just controlling him).
We KNOW Belle would never be so cruel to anyone, even Rumple, as to say the things she did. She’ll speak cold, hard truths when she has to, but she doesn’t do it to wound. And Regina said herself that it was in Regina’s nature to do just that.
And let’s suppose that it WAS someone else’s heart, and Belle was in on the whole thing (which is beyond my ability to accept from Belle’s character, but seems to be the theory that Regina’s more desperate defenders favor). How does it clear Regina ANY to harm (she did squeeze) and possibly kill (she’s against Rumple; she had to be willing to go through with it if absolutely necessary) an unknown stranger?
They really needed to show Regina taking the heart to clear this up. I get that they wanted to make it a bit more dramatic…but the effect is awful with the fandom and just muddles the pool of consent issues in this show terribly.
Regina took Belle’s heart and used it to do things Belle would not do on her own. That IS what we were shown, however the missing pieces fit together.
Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing
I really don’t get why this is a fan theory (not Belle’s heart) when the recap that spoiled this in the first place says that Regina takes Belle’s heart. It’s not ambiguous that it’s Belle’s. What is, is the level of consent. That’s it.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"We KNOW Belle would never be so cruel to anyone, even Rumple, as to say the things she did. She’ll speak cold, hard truths when she has to, but she doesn’t do it to wound. And Regina said herself that it was in Regina’s nature to do just that.
We saw Lacey enjoy a spot or two of cruelty. Lacey didn’t go away, and Belle has reason to hate Rumpel. The cruel taunt could have been a way to get a bit of revenge while also convincing Rumpel that Regina was in control.
And let’s suppose that it WAS someone else’s heart, and Belle was in on the whole thing (which is beyond my ability to accept from Belle’s character, but seems to be the theory that Regina’s more desperate defenders favor). How does it clear Regina ANY to harm (she did squeeze) and possibly kill (she’s against Rumple; she had to be willing to go through with it if absolutely necessary) an unknown stranger?
I’m sure the vault held hearts of dangerous bad people, too, and not just of heroes. Just hide the rotten part while showing the heart to Rumpel. Or get a volunteer donor; Killian owes Belle a few favours.
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I really don’t get why this is a fan theory (not Belle’s heart) when the recap that spoiled this in the first place says that Regina takes Belle’s heart. It’s not ambiguous that it’s Belle’s. What is, is the level of consent. That’s it.
And yet it keeps popping up. I don’t get it, either. But it annoys me.
And, true, Lacey did have a bit of a sadistic streak, but Lacey, too, was partly a creation of Regina’s. As herself, Belle does not indulge in Lacey’s sadism that we’ve seen at all.
Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing
We saw Lacey enjoy a spot or two of cruelty. Lacey didn’t go away, and Belle has reason to hate Rumpel. The cruel taunt could have been a way to get a bit of revenge while also convincing Rumpel that Regina was in control.
I’m sure the vault held hearts of dangerous bad people, too, and not just of heroes. Just hide the rotten part while showing the heart to Rumpel. Or get a volunteer donor; Killian owes Belle a few favours.
It seems like it would be somewhat out of character not just for Belle, but for Regina — she’s presumably in a hurry to get the heck out of dodge and go rescue Robin from Sister Dearest. Why would she bother putting up this elaborate charade, including convincing Belle to choreograph this three act play (heart to heart; cruel; amnesiac); go fetch some spare heart from the vault; and then bring this all together for Rumple’s benefit, hoping he won’t pick up on the deception? And what if he does? What’s the pay off? Regina has always been a pretty impulsive character — I don’t think that’s going to change whether she’s evil or not. That’s just who she is. And she’s in a hurry to get on the road and save her TL. It seems much more efficient to use Belle’s heart and get on with the program. This theory of the fake heart seems like a lot of convoluted mental gymnastics to absolve Regina of any questionable behavior. Sometimes the simpler solution is the correct one, even on OUAT.
And then there’s the fact that Belle WOULD worry about Rumple in this situation, and wouldn’t just wander off if she weren’t being controlled. These convoluted theories just throw Belle’s characterization completely under the bus–and dismiss Regina’s characterization out of some strange desperation to keep her hands clean.
Regina has done and still sometimes DOES do horrible things to people. That doesn’t mean you can’t like her and support her eventual redemption. Trying to shift the blame onto her victims is not the way to do that. Belle is a victim here, no matter what she actually agreed to (which in my mind is nothing more than what was shown–ie, “How can I help?”).
Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing
At the end of the day…I still say Belle knew exactly what she was getting herself into, and knew whom she was dealing with… “How Can I Help?” well, that’s more or less saying “I’m in.”
"If you go as far as you can see...you will then see enough to go even further." - Finn Balor
At the end of the day…I still say Belle knew exactly what she was getting herself into, and knew whom she was dealing with… “How Can I Help?” well, that’s more or less saying “I’m in.”
No it’s not. “How can I help?” is not the same as saying “Yes Regina, take my heart and do with it as you please”. There are several clear facts:
1. Regina had Belle’s heart.
2. Regina threatened to crush Belle’s heart to show Rumple she meant business and even squeezed it, which we’ve seen on the show causes the person pain.Regina is in the wrong in this situation. The question is how much in the wrong? Did Belle give consent? If not, then Regina is 100% in the wrong with what she did. If Belle did give consent, how far did that consent extend?
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixThis is funny because the argument is that somehow Regina is responsible for all of her choices despite being manipulated, but Leopold was not. There was no way Leopold could have been manipulated if he didn’t a) read Regina’s diary b) lock her in a tower c) ask the Genie to find the man who she was ‘in love with’.
It is interesting how people see two different things while watching the same source material.
I think what’s interesting is how Regina fans want Regina to achieve redemption but don’t want to acknowledge the bad things that she needs the redemption for. It’s a paradox. How can Regina redeem herself if she’s done nothing wrong and she was just being manipulated.
Regina is responsible for her own actions. She made the choices she did. She has to accept responsibility for them. “Rumple made me do it” isn’t accepting responsibility, it’s passing the blame. Rumple may have influenced Regina but at the end of the day, she chose to slaughter an entire village, she chose to send children to their deaths at the hand of the blind witch, she chose to make Graham her sex-slave.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of Felix
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