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I’m not really in camp Regina or camp Rumple. For crying out loud, Rumple murdered his first wife. Regina had her first husband killed. Neither is a saint by any stretch of the imagination. In S3, both Regina and Rumple made great sacrifices for the sake of the ones they loved. Does that mean I think either is firmly in the hero camp? No way. I think both have done some highly questionable things since then, especially Rumple. I think both Regina and Rumple admit their dark tendencies. Rumple, way more than Regina, seems to have been almost totally overcome by his dark one curse after he was held prisoner by Zelena and his son died in his arms. Regina has done a better job of trying to walk the line, but still wavers every so often, but she at least seems to want to do the right thing for the sake of Henry, unlike Rumple, who doesn’t care about doing right even by Belle anymore. Of the two, I think Regina has made more strides towards redemption (though this recent episode seemed like a step backwards), and therefore is the more likely of the two to achieve real happiness. However, I will say that I think both Rumple and Regina are going about getting their happy endings the wrong way by getting the Author to rewrite their story.
[adrotate group="5"]"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
I think what’s interesting is how Regina fans want Regina to achieve redemption but don’t want to acknowledge the bad things that she needs the redemption for. It’s a paradox. How can Regina redeem herself if she’s done nothing wrong and she was just being manipulated.
I’m only responding to this because it was a direct reply to what I wrote.
I think this might be true to some, but not to me. I mentioned previously in the thread that I thought both Rumple and Regina were wrong with how far they’ve taken things in the past and currently.
And it seems like a lot of Regina dissenters are unwilling to admit that without outside forces (Cora, Rumple Leopold, [The Author?], Regina’s life would have been much different. And that those outside forces were wrong for how they manipulated her. That was my ultimate point. That doesn’t free Regina from the consequences of her hideous action, which were her own.
Regina’s redemption isn’t going to be a linear process. There will be setbacks — if it were easy, there’d be no villains.
I agree.
However, I will say that I think both Rumple and Regina are going about getting her happy ending the wrong way by getting the Author to rewrite their story.
I think this is an interesting point. Currently Regina doesn’t know The Author was able to manipulate Snow and Charming and Snow and Charming don’t know about Page 23. Only Emma knows all of these things, right? Rumple and The Author will remain one step ahead of Henry’s family because they aren’t sharing information.
found on Twitter … do not know if FAN BASED or from ONCE … BUT I liked it and though it should be here
Ok…this whole Graham thing…I’m not justifying Regina raping him….it was a terrible thing to do that, yes, she is very responsible for. BUT…he did make a deal with the Evil Queen, and went back on it….had she blackmailed him, say she would kill every wolf in the kingdom if he didn’t co-operate, fine, but Graham knowingly made and broke a deal with the most dangerous, and more than likely evilest woman in all the land….and then tried to deceive her. It would have been so much better had he tried to make a run for it instead of going back.
I’m just saying that making a deal with the Evil Queen was a bad move in the first place for Graham…breaking it and then trying to deceive her makes matters only worse….it was a dangerous game that Graham was playing and unfortunately lost. Poor guy should have just made a run for it.
“A promise made is a debt to be paid.” – Aunt Dahlia from The Originals
"If you go as far as you can see...you will then see enough to go even further." - Finn Balor
Why the elaborate scenarios for how Belle might be in on it that make little sense with either the ABC party line, or the episode itself? Is it out of a undying devotion to Regina, or out of some kind of deep loathing for Rumbelle, or a combination thereof?
When I watch a drama show, I keep two things in mind:
1. It’s only what we see on screen during an episode that’s authoritative.
2. Characters lie to each other.
OUAT is heavy on exposition, which I find dull and annoying, so I like to think about how the characters could be scheming to gain advantages over their adversaries.
Gaultheria's fanvids: http://youtube.com/sagethrasher
Ok…this whole Graham thing…I’m not justifying Regina raping him….it was a terrible thing to do that, yes, she is very responsible for. BUT…he did make a deal with the Evil Queen, and went back on it….had she blackmailed him, say she would kill every wolf in the kingdom if he didn’t co-operate, fine, but Graham knowingly made and broke a deal with the most dangerous, and more than likely evilest woman in all the land….and then tried to deceive her. It would have been so much better had he tried to make a run for it instead of going back.
I’m just saying that making a deal with the Evil Queen was a bad move in the first place for Graham…breaking it and then trying to deceive her makes matters only worse….it was a dangerous game that Graham was playing and unfortunately lost. Poor guy should have just made a run for it.
Your not justifying it BUT you are. It’s victim blaming. Regina should not have done what she did to Graham. That’s it no buts. With Graham, the fact that Regina took his heart was “punishment” enough, she didn’t then need to make him her sex-slave.
Why the elaborate scenarios for how Belle might be in on it that make little sense with either the ABC party line, or the episode itself? Is it out of a undying devotion to Regina, or out of some kind of deep loathing for Rumbelle, or a combination thereof?
When I watch a drama show, I keep two things in mind:
1. It’s only what we see on screen during an episode that’s authoritative.
2. Characters lie to each other.
OUAT is heavy on exposition, which I find dull and annoying, so I like to think about how the characters could be scheming to gain advantages over their adversaries.
Well what we saw on-screen was that Regina had Belle’s heart and was controlling it. She also squeezed it and threatened to crush it.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixWell what we saw on-screen was that Regina had Belle’s heart
Nope, we saw Regina holding a heart that she said was Belle’s.
Gaultheria's fanvids: http://youtube.com/sagethrasher
Well what we saw on-screen was that Regina had Belle’s heart
Nope, we saw Regina holding a heart that she said was Belle’s.
We also saw when, after Belle said those horrible things, Rumple questioned that it wasn’t like her and Regina stepped out from behind a tree saying no but it was like HER. We also saw her say to Belle now run along and forget everything you’ve just heard then Belle ran along.
It was Belle’s heart. The only question regarding the heart is whether it was obtained with consent or not.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixWe also saw when, after Belle said those horrible things, Rumple questioned that it wasn’t like her and Regina stepped out from behind a tree saying no but it was like HER. We also saw her say to Belle now run along and forget everything you’ve just heard then Belle ran along.
It was Belle’s heart. The only question regarding the heart is whether it was obtained with consent or not.
I mentioned earlier how that could work to Belle’s advantage, letting Belle and Regina learn Rumpel’s plan while protecting Belle from his wrath.
Gaultheria's fanvids: http://youtube.com/sagethrasher
When I watch a drama show, I keep two things in mind: 1. It’s only what we see on screen during an episode that’s authoritative. 2. Characters lie to each other. OUAT is heavy on exposition, which I find dull and annoying, so I like to think about how the characters could be scheming to gain advantages over their adversaries.
LOL to the exposition comment. Truth.
I agree in principle, but this particular theory seems overly convoluted and inconsistent with Belle’s character and with Regina’s (presumed) current motivations and state of mind, as I discussed above. Primarily inconsistent with Belle’s character, actually. Not that I can’t imagine her saying something hurtful to Rumple, whether in a moment of deep anger, or to drive a point across – he’s had it coming and then some. I just don’t think (1) it would be in this particular vein, and (2) I don’t think a pre-scripted bait-and-switch of the sort is consistent with someone who was recently shown in turmoil over the relationship.
Here’s, I think, the other problem. Lets do a thought experiment, and reverse the genders in the particular piece of dialogue that folks seems to be debating here (so, similarly to @RumplesGirl comment on Graham here). Should a man make a disparaging comment about his (ex) girlfriend or wife’s skill as a lover (or, say, about her physique) — you know, “she is a much better kisser” (or whatever this stands in for on a family friendly show) — I suspect many people might call it out as, at best, vulgar and misogynist, and at worst, pathetic. I certainly wouldn’t think to myself “Wow, good on him, now that was empowered, that really showed [the ex] who’s boss.” Which is why I’m a bit puzzled when people seem to be cheering at the idea that this is Belle’s. We’ve been led to believe that she is better than that. On the other hand, I suppose it wouldn’t be the first time that her characterization got thrown under a bus for the sake of plot, so what do I know…
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