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By everyone, I meant on this forum.
And I wasn’t getting into a ship war. I wasn’t saying which ship is better at all. In fact, if there was a gun to my head, I think I liked Neal and Emma better. I just don’t look at Hook with a hateful biased view because of it. I just thought because of who Emma is dating and because of who she dated before him, that has exhibited some serious bias on this particular forum. And this came up in this thread because they showed Hook putting others before himself yet again in this episode and when it was brought up that someone didn’t like how Hook was getting redeemed or that he was getting redeemed at all, I thought I would respond by pointing out how other bad people have gotten redeemed and didn’t get as much pushback as Hook is getting. I think it has all been fairly cordial and relevant for this thread.
[adrotate group="5"]By everyone, I meant on this forum.
And I wasn’t getting into a ship war. I wasn’t saying which ship is better at all. In fact, if there was a gun to my head, I think I liked Neal and Emma better. I just don’t look at Hook with a hateful biased view because of it. I just thought because of who Emma is dating and because of who she dated before him, that has exhibited some serious bias on this particular forum. And this came up in this thread because they showed Hook putting others before himself yet again in this episode and when it was brought up that someone didn’t like how Hook was getting redeemed or that he was getting redeemed at all, I thought I would respond by pointing out how other bad people have gotten redeemed and didn’t get as much pushback as Hook is getting. I think it has all been fairly cordial and relevant for this thread.
I think what they mean by not liking how hook is redeemed, is about how fast that redeemtion has been made, in this episode case, Henry forgave him after knowing Hook killed his father, ( which was a stupid killing, bc he killed him, bc he named the new son after his older son, but never mind that), while Henry with Regina took longer, took several seasons and with hook took only 42 min, that is why people are saying his redeemention is going to fast, especially bc he is with Emma, or even how Emma forgives everything to Hook while having seasons of not forgiving other characters that she said she loved.
Also is case to wonder if was some random kid, would hook try to save him as well, or he only cared about Hnery, bc of Emma? If was some random woman trying to escape from her husband would Hook even care about her, in my opinion, if they want to make Hook really changed, he would have to do it bc he wants to some random unknown people, not bc the people are related to Emma or emma saying for him to do them, has to come from him, not bc the people the characters are connected to Charmings, Regina or Rumple.
Now going back the start and to the other people in the forum, I think what they mean by hook development is that is being to fast, while comparing with other characters, like Regina, not even talking about Zelena, bc they act like she was a angel, surprise Rumple didnt killed her for real already and also not talking about Rumple, bc he is being written, like a nightmare.I think what they mean by not liking how hook is redeemed, is about how fast that redeemtion has been made, in this episode case, Henry forgave him after knowing Hook killed his father, ( which was a stupid killing, bc he killed him, bc he named the new son after his older son, but never mind that), while Henry with Regina took longer, took several seasons and with hook took only 42 min
I think that is part of the problem with the show. They used to make these character arcs span across seasons, and people’s actions actually had meaning and consequences. These days characters do completely 180’s between the beginning and end of the episode, or they steal a baby because the plot requires it. (To this day I have no idea what the whole plot with Emma’s darkness being dispelled was all about – they made such a big thing about it and it didn’t really lead anywhere).
I was dreading this episode because of how people were reacting to it and was surprised to find I didn’t hate it.
Overall I’d give it a 7/10. It was a solid episode but nothing to really rave about.
I liked the Hook/Henry scenes and the fact they FINALLY had Henry express some dislike of Hook before working it out. Hook has really grown on me this season and this is probably the centric of his I like the most.
The Liam 2.0 storyline was okay. I liked the fact that both he and Nemo survived and essentially got their happy ending.
The Rumple/EQ kiss was not as bad as I thought it was going to be. It wasn’t romantic, it was a power play much like Cora did in season 2. I think the press release was wrong when it says EQ and Rumple have a “burgeoning romance” just like it was wrong when it said Belle was afraid of Rumple.
I’m glad Belle is wanting Rumple to be a part of Morfetus’ life.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixDoes that mean that such a person, and the character that stands for them, is absolutely irredeemable? Not necessarily. And in the hands of competent writers, I would actually be interested in seeing an effective and compelling redemption arc for a kind of social type that I personally find thoroughly loathsome. But what they’re doing doesn’t accomplish that.
See I think putting Henry first over himself and saving Belle’s life (the wife of the man he used to hate and want to kill for revenge) is absolutely effective in getting Hook redeemed. And as far as generalizing, it just seems that nobody on here hated that the writers were trying to redeem Regina for all her MURDERS and RAPING. But because Hook is sexual by nature, and is also male (I’m sorry but I think this matters), his misdeeds are worse than murder and rape. And yes, I know Hook killed people and his father but that’s not what you mentioned. You mentioned he is an “entitled bro,” a title that cannot be given to a woman. And you mention that these villains that they tried to redeem haven’t gotten what they wanted, except for Hook. And yet, Regina has Henry and the love of her family who forgave her. Rumple still has Belle somehow and a child on the way, and Zelena still has her child. So why can’t Hook continue to have Emma?
I really wasn’t going to dive into this, but I’ll just give my two cents and leave it alone.
I have to agree that Hook is getting an easy route to redemption…much like someone previous said, A&E are redeeming him by giving him simple tasks to show that “Hey, he’s not so bad after all right? Now stop tweeting us & enjoy whatever we give you!” Not saying Hook isn’t being redeemed, but how Adam and Eddy are doing it is unfair to others who went through hell and back for redemption. Even his Captain Hook role, a role he dealt for hundreds of years, was swept away like it never even existed. Sure it was teased for one episode back in Season 4, but Adam & Eddy never really write the struggle he’s had with dealing with who he used to be. Meanwhile Regina is literally wrestling with her Evil Queen, Zelena is in a tug and war with the Wicked Witch of the West, and Mr. Gold is…well he’s content with Rumpelstilskin.
Now as for Regina, yes she did rape once and murdered hundreds upon hundreds and did a lot back during her Evil Queen Days, but look at the price she’s paid along the way in the course of her redemption. As she raped Graham, her soul mate was raped by Zelena who got pregnant by him. She murdered people, and then karma came back and made her have to kill Daniel again, and then Cora was killed, and then Robin was killed, not even mentioning it took her a LONG time to earn Storybrooke’s trust.
Regina nearly lost her son on several occasions, was nearly electrocuted to death, then had to give up her son to save everyone from Pan’s Curse, suffered the flip flopping of Storybrooke’s behavior towards her, and was alone for quite a long time…even going far as going to therapy to try and change herself. There was a lot Regina had to pay for her sins in the past, and a lot she had to do to be redeemed. Even Zelena had to kill Hades herself, Maleficent lost her daughter, and Mr. Gold sacrificed his life at one point to save Storybrooke from Pan, and soon after lost Neal, the one person who he spent 300+ Years trying to get back to.
Honestly speaking…what karmic price has Hook had to pay in the course of his redemption, besides the prized ship that he eventually got back? For Oz sake, they’ve even thrown in a brother for him to have along with Emma & her family. Hook literally has everything, while all of the other villains, some who were on a redemption course before him are still struggling and even losing.
What course of Heroic Action has Hook done from his own free will, rather than being talked into doing or reminded of the sort of man he wishes to become? Now I will give credit where credit is due, he did spare his brother and was willing to send Henry instead of himself….however, his redemption course has been smooth sailing compared to Regina, Rumple, or even Zelena’s.
I’ll end it here because I feel as if I’ve said my peace on the situation. I am here for most of Storybrooke’s Villains getting redeemed, even Hook because whether fans like him or not, it’s clear he’s not going anywhere. But if they’re going to really redeem Hook in the eyes of the fans who aren’t die hard Hookers/CSers, he should have to take the long road just like everyone else had to, and the long road consists of karmic prices being paid and selfless-sacrificial actions constantly being done. But then again…Adam and Eddy speeding up Hook’s redemption is probably because they know this show only has about one more season left in it, so I try to rationalize in my mind that they’re just quickly wrapping up all of the storylines and tying up loose ends before the show meets it’s end.
"If you go as far as you can see...you will then see enough to go even further." - Finn Balor
I’ve been debating on whether or not I’d weigh in on this…it seems sort of pointless for me to wrestle with the Hook question. Everyone knows how I feel about Hook. I think what it comes down to is the writers hearing vs the writers listening. I do agree that the redemption Hook is currently undergoing is A) fast and B) because the writers have only HEARD that a good portion of their fans do not like Hook (and yes a good portion of them also love him).
The “Fast” part of that two-part almost goes right over my head. Of course it’s fast. Everything on this show is nowadays. The writers don’t take their time with anything. Relationships develop in one episode; villains are gone between 4-10 episodes; long standing-mythological questions get answered in the span of a current arc with little to no foreshadowing to be found in past arcs. Characters forgive others after one heart to heart, and are resentful of their peers after one fight. Everything is about fast drama that gets people talking. It’s buzz, not story.
Do I like that Hook is being redeemed this fast without having to *really* go down the paths other villains have had? Nope. Do I think he’s being given a lot without working for it–a brother who forgives him almost without any arguing, a literal resurrection–? Yes. Did I expect anything less? Nope; the writers didn’t even think Hook needed this redemption arc. They’ve been calling him a hero since S3. And this brings me to part 2.
Part two is that the writers are hearing what people are saying (tweeting). They hear that fans do not like Hook’s toxic masculinity, rape culture persona. But what the writers do not do–is listen. Take Hook out of the equation and insert another problematic element in OUAT. Let’s look at the PoC’s of the show. For quite some time, the writers HEARD that fans (and even some critics) were questioning the treatment of PoC’s on OUAT. Their solution? To change the traditional depiction of legends like Guinevere and Merlin to Latina and African, respectively. In the writers mind, that solves the problems. Look–PoC’s! Well, no. Because the writers did not LISTEN. Look what they did to Gwen and Merlin; one was roofied by her husband and then given no development outside of a white man’s pain, and the other was killed only to further a white man’s story without fleshing him out in any meaningful way, to only serve as an exposition prop before being done away with and never mentioned again. In short, they were treated like previous PoC’s on this show.
Hook is the same way. The writers went through the motions; they want to make Hook tolerable to those who do not like him without fully understanding the cultural and social reasons behind the dislike. So, he apologized to Belle (in a non snarky way); he put Henry before his romance with Emma and so far he’s made very little flirtatious jokes with other non-Emma entities. All of these things are GOOD (and more on this in a second) but on top of being quick, it does little to erase the message of his overall toxic masculinity which is not a position the writers are ever going to understand because of their own privilege position; the same way they can’t understand how PoC’s read their treatment of PoC characters, the same way they can’t understand how LGBT read their treatment of any LGBT characters and the same way they can’t understand how uncomfortable it is for me (a woman) to watch women be sexually aggressive and either be punished for it or it be part of their “evil” makeup. It’s hard for the writers to see Hook as anything BUT a swashbuckling romantic hero because–by and large–that’s how TV culture has presented “bad boy” romantic leading characters. It’s not A and E who are at fault, not solely–it’s our culture that’s also at fault.
NOW! Having said all of that… let me say something else. So far, this season, I have very little mean things to say against Hook. Do I like him? Not even a little bit. But right now, I don’t have a lot to say about his current actions that are repugnant. In other words, if the goal of the writers was to make Hook more tolerable to those who do not like them…they (somewhat) succeeded. I will never like him, I will forever be rubbed the wrong way but the entitled bro, rape culture characters. But right now…when Hook is on my screen, I don’t want to claw my eyes out. I just sit, watch, take notes (sometimes even positive ones!) and move on to the next scene.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Just rewatched the episode and something is really bugging me. How is it that Jasmine has a phone in this land and is au fait with texting, having come over from the LoUS, but Hook in the next scene still doesn’t know what a games console is, having been in Storybrooke for rather a long time now? I guess Henry may not get much time to play it, but still…
I guess Violet was texting Henry pretty quickly as well. Perhaps there is phone shop where they give them out for free?
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