FAVORITE AND LEAST FAVORITE MOMENTS from this episode 4X 11 HEROES AND VILLAINS

[Keb]

And it really sucks because the chances that we’ll see the Frozen cast again on Once are pretty slim, I suspect…Disney’s gonna be careful with that property and may not allow the kinds of cameos other characters are getting. They set that up as a pretty final goodbye.

[Phee]

–Rumple and Belle at the town line. I realized something during this scene–this scene that actually made me feel something for OUAT more than what I’ve been feeling for 11 episodes now—I still watch for Bobby. I’ve been struggling with an answer as to why I still watch or why I’m still invested and it’s Bobby. I hate and loathe with every fiber of my being what they’ve done to Rumple…but by god , Bobby knows how to sell it. That scene was perfect. Going down on his leg when he crossed over, once again broken…it reminded me of how much I loved Rumple once. For three years I’ve been RG–I’ve been Rumple’s Girl and lately I haven’t felt like I was Rumple’s anything. But that scene…that scene was almost like my Rumple. My Rumple that I once fought for and defended. He was ugly and scared and selfish and stupid and I don’t know how he comes back from this…but it made me feel something. And brava to Emilie. She nailed it. She was really something in that scene.

THIS! Rumple had always been my fave, but this season I’ve been beyond DONE with him, but that moment when he went across the town line and his leg crumbled beneath him, I wanted to weep for him. Well played, Mr Carlyle. And finally getting to see Belle wise up and tell him where to go was glorious and Emilie was perfect.

Also, how did they figure out that pushing people over the line will prevent them from returning? They based this assumption on…what? It turned out to be correct, but how did they know? Another thing, how the heck did Belle get between Rumple and Emma in the clock tower? Is there another door? Or did she creep slowly up the stairs before Emma and Snow arrived and shouted out? Also how did Emma, Snow or Belle know to get to the clock tower? Anna did not tell the Charmings were Rumple was, and as far as we know the spell wasn’t visable from the outside, and even if it was there was not enough time between the spell hovering over their heads and Emma and Snow appearing from the elevator.???????

OMG all of those questions and probably a whole bunch more if I could be bothered making a list. It really takes me out of the show when there are glaring, annoying things like that that make me wonder, “WAIT…WUT?!”

[Gaultheria]

I thought Mal’s thing was crows. That was a raven (though a lanky raven, with the voice of a crow).

Good thing Regina’s fingers didn’t fall off when she pulled her hand back across the town line.

I mentally add cylon sound effects whenever the walking broom is onscreen. Woo-woo, woo-woo,…

“Let’s leave Henry alone in the sorceror’s mansion. Nothing dangerous here, right?”

When Rumpel and Regina were talking in the car, the background movement was out of sync with the camera, as if the parked car was spinning very slowly. The difference was small, but the effect was jarring, like Regina’s rollerskate shoes in the pilot episode.

I like the trio of evil. They’re like the three witches from Macbeth. Zelena and Ingrid weren’t effective villains, in my opinion, because they weren’t believable characters. The new trio don’t need to have realistic personalities and motivations, since they can play off of each other’s strengths. Individually, they won’t be in the spotlight as much as Zelena and Ingrid, so I think I will not become so quickly annoyed with these three.

The plot device glove led Belle to where the real dagger was, but the dagger wasn’t the only thing there, so it might not have been the important thing.

Don’t let Rumpel get his magic back! He’s much more entertaining when lack of power forces him to be shrewd.

What happens to the Dark One power when Rumpel leaves town and his magic can’t go with him? Maybe the glove led Belle to the dagger as her weakness, not as Rumpel’s. Belle figuratively put a knife in Rumpel’s heart at the town line. Dark Belle has a lot of potential; let’s see what happens when Lacey gets the power that she lusted for. Beauty and the Beast role-reversal could be the only way to open Rumpel’s eyes to the price of the Dark One magic.

Gaultheria's fanvids: http://youtube.com/sagethrasher

[desa]

I hate now Belle,how could she do that to him.She left him powerless,crippled and without anything.She was the judge,the jury and executioner.What was she thinking living in her imaginary world,he killed his father,was dead,his son died,he was a slave for a year of course that he was going to change for the worst.Was she helpful no she decided to think that everything was great,she did not support him,not talk to him.When the going gets difficult just kick him out of town and turn your back on your husband.Nice message to the world.He should not forgive her for this not ever.As a RumBelle fan to me that relationship is dead the minute she made him cross that line.I am not saying that he did not deserve a good kick in the butt I am just saying that true love does not turn back on you like she did.He loves power well she loves being a hero.Also nobody cares about him and why should he care for the town.He has lost everything and I believe he will go full evil and he should.I hope he gets some payback.

[Keb]

I’m slowly starting to accept that maybe Rumple’s plan really was just…leave Storybrooke. It feels so flat but…

Here’s the thing. He knows full well Emma & the other heroes are going to be ticked when he kills off the fairies and Hook. He knows BELLE wouldn’t put up with that. So leaving Storybrooke with her unaware was really his only chance to get away with it. It wasn’t the Plan. It was the getaway.

Also, a loose dangling end: Are the fairies still trapped in the hat? He sort of released all those powers for his ritual. Where are they?

Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing

[RumplesGirl]

Also, a loose dangling end: Are the fairies still trapped in the hat? He sort of released all those powers for his ritual. Where are they?

Yeaaaaaaah. Why hasn’t anyone noticed that ALL THE NUNS are missing?!

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[Slurpeez]

Yeaaaaaaah. Why hasn’t anyone noticed that ALL THE NUNS are missing?!

Seriously, an order of nuns disappears and no one notices? Wouldn’t Belle have reported the missing nuns to the sheriff, especially since Belle was helping them brew an antidote to Ingrid’s spell just before they mysteriously vanished? And why wasn’t Emma demanding more answers from Hook, and why didn’t he tell her all the crap Rumple made him do? Oh wait, Emma was too busy doing other things at Granny’s, which should have been a crime scene, not a local watering hole. Emma Swan, sheriff of the year. And where’s Prince Charming in all this as her co-sheriff? Hopefully, someone will investigate. I nominate Ruby and Granny with their sense of wolf smell, but probably the nuns weren’t too missed for the 6 weeks while Rumple was wondering around NYC like a homeless person. Couldn’t Rumple live in Neal’s mysteriously-untouched apartment? The first thing he does isn’t to seek a shower, but rather to seek out Ursula. How is she in NYC?

"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy

[PriceofMagic]

Overall, I quite liked this episode. It was RumBelle heavy which is great though there were some things which could’ve been written differently.

Favourite:

RumBelle at the town line- It was so well acted, so heartbreaking and so full of emotion. Belle was doing the right thing even though it was painful to both parties involved. She was being a hero even though it meant she was unhappy. This scene was definitely one of the best of the season, RC and EdR knocked it out of the park which is why I can’t understand why the writers don’t give them more screentime together. RC and EdR are easily two of the strongest actors on the show and they are very under utilised.

Rumple waking Belle up- It was such an adorable scene and makes what happened at the town line even more heartbreaking.

Henry and Belle share a scene- It was such a lovely scene especially when Henry called Belle Grandma and she said Belle’s good.

Cruella sassing Rumple about his height- I think I might actually like Cruella in 4B (though I thought I’d like Zelena more than I actually did).

Marian saying that she wants Robin to choose her rather than be bound by obligation- I think this shows real strength of character for Marian and it reminds me of Kathryn in season 1. Also it was acknowledged that Roland actually does care for Marian since she is his mom. I wonder if the writers have actually changed their OQ plotline because of fan reaction. Before, A&E were saying things like “Roland doesn’t know Marian that well” and in the episode they’ve acknowledged that Marian is actually Roland’s mom and that she can’t just be brushed aside.

Rumple actually puppeting Hook- Still throws up the question though of how much Hook could’ve actually tried to disobey Rumple when Rumple wasn’t actually puppeting him through his heart. I liked how Rumple said through Hook the necessary information then realised he had to make it look like Hook was actually talking hence the “long winded explanation which I can’t recall. Colin’s acting was fantastic in this scene because obviously Rumple was trying to use the terminology he would think Hook would use or has observed Hook using and Colin had to act as Hook being controlled by Rumple who was trying to play Hook. It was a very clever scene.

The Rumple/Regina scene- It was a nice scene between them two. Rumple actually talked about his experiences briefly and it was acknowledged that Rumple knew what Henry was up to.

Mixed:

Belle and Rumple having their little spat in FTL- The curtains were closed! I did enjoy Belle muttering to herself as she pegged up the washing however it did appear she was in the middle of the forest. Are the dark castle’s grounds not big enough for a few lines of laundry?

Rumple’s plan- My interpretation of it was that Rumple was planning to leave Storybrooke forever with Belle with his power intact and just kind of travel the world because that’s what she always wanted to do. The initial plan being to take Henry too but that changed and now Henry’s staying. That’s not an evil plan. The methods of which he might achieve it might not have been above board but that’s Rumple for you. If that was indeed his plan then why is Rumple being made out to be evil this season?

The puppy- Was it Cruella or not? If so then I called it! It would’ve been nice for some confirmation though.

The gauntlet- It was a plot device but it was one of the least plot devicey plot devices we’ve had on the show. However, the way it was kind of just stashed up on a shelf suggests that Rumple wasn’t specifically hiding it from Belle so I don’t know why it was treated as this big thing that made Belle realise Rumple’s deceit. He could’ve genuinely traded it for Belle’s life then got it back somehow at a later date. I don’t see why it was suddenly absolute proof of his lies.

Belle talks about noticing the signs that Rumple was up to no good- You know what would’ve been nice? To actually SEE Belle picking up on these signs over the course of the season. I get that she might not want to believe what she was seeing but it would’ve explained why the mirror picked it up and why she was so determined not to let Rumple talk his way out of trouble after seeing the gauntlet.

Ursula- The jury is still out, though having 3 villains makes me think none of them will be fleshed out properly.

Regina letting go of Robin- It shows good character growth for her but they’ve absolutely destroyed Robin as a character to get there.

Dislike:

Anna and Belle not sharing a scene- It was perfectly set up. Anna and Belle reunite, talk about what happened to them since they last saw each other, Belle mentions she got married, perhaps shows a picture of her husband to her friend. Anna recognises Rumple and blurts out the truth to Belle. As it stands, there was no reason for Anna to turn around and say what she did to the Charmings other than plot device. Anna just dropped a bombshell then left others to deal with the fallout which makes her slightly dislikeable.

Emma doubting Rumple- Whilst it did turn out to be justified this time, it is quite annoying how Emma and Snowing make a big song and dance about how Rumple has to help because he’s “family” yet they don’t trust him one iota and always accuse him when something goes wrong. If they can trust Regina who has actively tried to kill them in the past, why can’t they trust Rumple?

Nobody comforting Belle- The poor woman has just kicked her beloved out of Storybrooke to protect the town and yet it seems like she’s expected just to suck it up and deal with it. Meanwhile everyone is on the “poor Regina” wagon just because she didn’t hook up with a guy.

Henry was left alone at the sorcerer’s mansion- How? Why? RumBelle had sex in the sorcerer’s bed! What the hell? Did Charming just wonder off and leave him? Why would they leave Henry unattended like that? Henry can’t sneeze without someone knowing about it and all of a sudden he’s allowed to roam abandoned houses on his own? Henry is one giant walking talking plot device at this point.

The blank books and Operation Mongoose- The idea that people are written as villains and there is nothing they can do about it is wrong. It takes away their culpability. Unless it is revealed that the books are merely documentation devices, then I will be quite annoyed.

All magic comes with a price!

Keeper of Felix

[Hook’s Girl]

So we now have another person who somehow got to NY, not knowing where he’s staying, and yet was able to search & find someone. Course Rumple probably has a cell phone & money on him but he still had to figure how to find a bus station & limp there. I wonder if his phone has GPS & internet access. :o)

Nothing is impossible on OUAT. Everything has a way of repeating itself. Keeper of the Keeper tread: https://oncepodcast.com/forums/topic/official-keeper-thread-3/#post-217924

[sherazade]

Good

The scene with Regina and Rumple. Confirms my idea that he really is fond of her (in a mentor/student and maybe “rival” kinda way). And that’s why he never considered sucking her into the hat. Rumple was overconfident and haughty up the wazoo, but I did like the “making your own destiny” idea. Once seems to be heading towards a predestination vs. free will storyarc. Anyway, Regina and Rumple: Great dialogue, great acting. Great scene.

Belle fighting back and kicking her husband out of town. Although I have some issues with Belle’s reasoning this episode (see waaay below), I have to applaud her for taking action in such a no-nonsense way. Seeing her being manipulated and deceived for so long was starting to become really uncomfortable. Painful as this was, it is the only way to move forward without having to watch a profoundly unhealthy relationship every week.

The library. A library full of blank books. Mysterious! For now I’m liking this. Also the scooby-doo adventure (Sorry, “operation Mongoose”) Emma, Regina and Henry are embarking on. I’m taking all this optimism back with interest, if they ever have Walt Disney himself appear in this show (please don’t).

Mixed

Marian certainly doesn’t hold any grudges. She is very understanding of her husband being in love with the woman who was going to kill her. Well uh… good for her, I guess? Actually, for a while there I was worried they brought Marian back for the sole purpose of having her give her blessings to Robin and Regina, before dropping dead a few scenes later. I’m glad they didn’t do that.
The way it is handled did give me a ton more questions. (Why didn’t more people leave with family Robin? Did they atleast give them a cell phone (facebook anyone?), to stay in touch? Are Robin and family finally going to move into a house, or are they going to be living in central park?)

On that same note, did no one want to go with Elsa and Anna to Arendale? I mean their kingdom was overrun by an evil guy and his many evil brothers. Some help to reclaim it might’ve been nice. (I guess they were too busy stopping Rumple, after learning from Anna that back when she met him he was not a very nice guy.
And about that: Wot? How was that a revelation? You could say the same about Regina. I guess he lied about not knowing Anna, but between all the time traveling and memory lapses going around, there were a ton of explanations other than “omg, you guys, he’s been totally evil all along because he lied about this one thing!”.)

Belle saving the day. Don’t get me wrong, I love Belle saving the day. But the way she did it is a bit odd. Where did she come from? How did she get there? How did she even know where to go? (I guess if you suspect something bad is going down, the clocktower is the default place to go nowadays?). I’m a bit sad we already saw Belle use the dagger a few episodes earlier (something I did not like then either). If this had been the first time, we’d be more aware of the huge impact of this on both characters.

3 villains. I have no idea how this will play out. So I’m not particularly worried or excited. Cruella stood out like a sore thumb though. I’m very curious how she will fit in with this. She seems like an odd choice. And did we really need more female villains?

Bad

This episode was full of characters jumping to weird conclusions (ok, maybe every ep is like that lately, but here it stood out more, for some reason).

Emma is being completely intuitive and responsive about things lately. “I sense something is wrong with the town line”. But when she notices something is very wrong with Hook and he grasps her arm in what seems like the clearest plea for help ever, she ignores it and goes off to say goodbye to Elsa and Anna instead. I was totally expecting her to follow him. What are you doing, Emma?

And my number 1 peeve: Belle’s reasoning. There were a ton of reasons for why she was totally justified in being angry, even for kicking Rumple out of town (he lied to her. and he did kill(?) ALL THE NUNS as well as some old dude no one knew, and he tried to kill Emma, and Hook). But what was it that tipped her off? He got the ransom-glove he paid for her back. Now I don’t know about you, but if my husband paid a ransom to save my life and then managed to get the money back after I was safe and sound, my first thought wouldn’t be “he doesn’t love me”. It would be “How about that trip to Thailand?”
And the glove leading to his dagger… (Aside from the fact that Belle apparently used the glove to go look for her husbands greatest weakness, hoping that it would be her – which is all kinds of messed up.) Her ending up at the dagger seems completely logical to me. Belle is his greatest strength, not his greatest weakness. Sorry hun, but he has a dagger that will let other people use him as a puppet, no matter how much he loves you. It also happens to be the one thing in the world that can kill him. That is a big glaring weakness right there (why do you think he wants to get rid of it?). I’m not convinced that if offered a choice, he’d choose the dagger over Belle. Well, ok, maybe now that she’s done this to him, he might choose the dagger. 😉

[Author]

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