Finale speculation and theory

[RumplesGirl]

Yes, I was being courteous and he has a right to promote his own blog, though the spoilers bars are maybe a bit much here but again it was done out of politeness.

I don’t think there is a way to turn off the spoiler bars for each individual, but it is only one click.

[RumplesGirl]

Anyway, Gypsy brought up a really good point in another thread. Here’s her take:

I like the idea of London being a fictional/non magic London.
I don’t think it’s Victor’s “Land Without Color”, though.
Victor’s LWC has to have some kind of magic, or Jefferson’s had would not have been able to go there.
That world was depicted in black&white. London wasn’t.
Also, when Rumple went to LWC, he still had ‘color’, so, it’s safe to say that Bae would’ve still had ‘color’ and he would have stuck out like a sore thumb in that world

However, if magic is being depleted from the world at a slow rate, that might account for why Jefferson’s hat can still go there but magic is so low as to render it B&W.

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[kfchimera]

That is a good point–Rumpel thought he could not get the hat to go to the land without magic, but had no trouble going to the Land without color. Of course we don’t see him trying the hat, so it could be an erroneous assumption on his part. Yet if we assume that, it means the BF lied as where Bae went would have had magic (or Bae ended up in the wrong spot).

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

[raulybarra]

@KFChimera wrote:

It’s probably a bit much to spoiler a theory on another blog that could have been posted here, that is true, but I wanted to be polite.

Oh my, there’s no need at all for that, though I very much appreciate the gesture. The last two weeks have been nuts for me, so I just ran the link this week and last. I’m more interested in the conversation that anything. It’s not as if my blog is a commercial blog or anything, where clicks count. And I certainly don’t want to take advantage of Daniel’s generosity in providing us this venue. Beside, my link is already in my bio and sig.

I write the analysis in Word, but then it’s import and format for WordPress. If I cross post here (I’ve had some kind responses, in the past) as I have previously, it’s copy, paste and add the HTML and formatting again over here. I normally target around 1600 words on a full review, so that can be a chunk of work.

Anyway, spoiler bars are really not needed, though thanks again. (And I’ll try to make time to post the full length, so there’s no feeling of obligation.)

[raulybarra]

@RumplesGirl wrote:

Anyway, Gypsy brought up a really good point in another thread. Here’s her take:

I like the idea of London being a fictional/non magic London.
I don’t think it’s Victor’s “Land Without Color”, though.
Victor’s LWC has to have some kind of magic, or Jefferson’s had would not have been able to go there.
That world was depicted in black&white. London wasn’t.
Also, when Rumple went to LWC, he still had ‘color’, so, it’s safe to say that Bae would’ve still had ‘color’ and he would have stuck out like a sore thumb in that world

However, if magic is being depleted from the world at a slow rate, that might account for why Jefferson’s hat can still go there but magic is so low as to render it B&W.

Two things, though:

1. Does there have to be magic on both sides for the hat to work? Assuming that is how he got across. The hat’s rule on numbers going across presents some logistics questions.

2. Don’t forget, Bae would have come across, at the least, many decades before Frankie (love that naming, RG) would have helped Rumple. There could very well have been magic around at that time.

Even though the books were written with Frankenstein long before the Peter Pan stories, apparently in the OUAT reference, the PP story must have occurred first, regardless whether my theory is right or not. And that’s not that big a deal really, when you consider the time difference between things like Midas (Greek mythology), Arthurian legend (ca. 1000 AD and earlier) and out other fairy tale characters (say… 18th Cent. before Bros. Grimm collected it into their anthology). For all that to thread together into our body of classic literature, there would be some significant time warping involved.

And that nips at something else I’ve been saying since mid-season one. We shouldn’t expect a rock solid consistence in the historical timeline of FTL (i.e. the flashbacks, etc.). It’s going to be lose, at best. We can have expectations for a tight timeline in the present day world, but FTL just isn’t going to be able to match up.

hehehehe… Frankie! Love it!

Let’s do the time warp, again…

[RumplesGirl]

1. Does there have to be magic on both sides for the hat to work? Assuming that is how he got across. The hat’s rule on numbers going across presents some logistics questions.

Interesting question. According to the episode The Doctor

Rumpelstiltskin: No, no. Your hat only transports between magical realms. I need to get to a land without magic.

Saying realms makes me think that there has to be magic on both sides. But we know there is magic in LWC but it is very feeble and neglected.

Even though the books were written with Frankenstein long before the Peter Pan stories, apparently in the OUAT reference, the PP story must have occurred first, regardless whether my theory is right or not. And that’s not that big a deal really, when you consider the time difference between things like Midas (Greek mythology), Arthurian legend (ca. 1000 AD and earlier) and out other fairy tale characters (say… 18th Cent. before Bros. Grimm collected it into their anthology). For all that to thread together into our body of classic literature, there would be some significant time warping involved.

Excellent point. We can’t really apply out timeline to their timelines. When the stories were written could just be an indication of when those myths started seeping through to our world. The Frankenstien myth seeped through before Peter Pan even though over in LWC it was after the events of the Darling Children.

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[kfchimera]

Thanks for saying the spoiler blacking is not necessary–I ‘ll take it out in a moment then.

Rumpelstiltskin: What about the slippers?

Jefferson: Oh. Couldn’t find ‘em. Heard talk they’ve already been moved to another land.

Rumpelstiltskin: That’s what I needed to get to that other land.

Jefferson: Well, come with me in my hat. I’m sure we can work something out.

Rumpelstiltskin: No, no. Your hat only transports between magical realms. I need to get to a land without magic.

Jefferson: Why would anyone want that?

Rumpelstiltskin: My business.

Transcript from The Doctor. That says to me that Rumpel believed there had to be a certain amount of magic for the Hat to work–but notice, Jefferson doesn’t confirm or contradict him. What if the hat could technically go to a Land Without (much) Magic, but of course, could not bring you back? I don’t see Jefferson volunteering that information.

The biggest problem still for me is how could there be enough magic in Wendy’s time that it could both qualify as “without magic” enough for BF to send Bae there, but still have enough magic to lose to become black and white. Then again, BF’s promised destination still is problematic since we’ve seen that the Land Without Magic wasn’t so “without” thanks to the Dragon and the comments that Tamara made that this was not the first time of a magical invasion. So either way, what BF said did not pan out. So if I put aside BF’s “no magic there” promise, what I think could be is that Rumpel just assumed he couldn’t have used the hat to find the world where Bae went–but he probably could have. Yet by the time he went to that world, Bae had long since left. The time line gives me all kinds of headaches though–there’s a great thread where people are patient trying to work it out.

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

[raulybarra]

@KFChimera wrote:

Then again, BF’s promised destination still is problematic since we’ve seen that the Land Without Magic wasn’t so “without” thanks to the Dragon and the comments that Tamara made that this was not the first time of a magical invasion. So either way, what BF said did not pan out.

Indeed, the whole premise… this being a land without magic as the target of the curse also is an issue. If there’s magical characters such as The Dragon, why did Rumple need that potion to bring back magic?

What I keep telling myself – to keep my head from imploding – is that there are different magics. Say… magic and Magic. Sort of like some of the doctrines in theology. There’s natural revelation and special revelation. Or more in line with the show, there’s Common Grace and Saving Grace.

Flimsy, I know, but I haven’t come up with anything better.

[nonnie]

@RumplesGirl wrote:

Yes, I was being courteous and he has a right to promote his own blog, though the spoilers bars are maybe a bit much here but again it was done out of politeness.

I don’t think there is a way to turn off the spoiler bars for each individual, but it is only one click.

There is not automatic way to turn them off …. the writer has to go back and edit removing spoiler code from the post….. I guess that is why no one does it.

N

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