Goodbye Zelena

[Cinders]

So, now that my pissed-off-ness has simmered down, I’m reminded of a conversation I once had with my daughter about motherly advice. She asked me, “why don’t mothers ever give advice on important things like what to do if you’re trapped in a horror movie with an axe murderer?” (Yeah, we have weird conversations).

So, my answer was, honey, everyone knows that the dumb girl runs away, but she’s always caught, and dies first. The nieve girl talks and pleads for her life, but she dies too, because a horror villain isn’t interested in conversation. The relatively smart girl knocks the axe murderer out, but he always comes to, grabs her ankle, drags her down, and kills her as well. A horror movie villain doesn’t stop until they’re dead. A really smart girl, like you, would grab a heavy object and smash him in the face. But she wouldn’t stop there. She would keep bashing his head in until his brains popped out. Then, she would stop, and smash him one more time, just to make sure he’s really really dead.

So, watching the show, my daughter actually went into the kitchen, got an iron skillet, and said “Mom, I’m ready. Let’s do this. Regina is the naive girl. Someone needs to bash Zelena’s face in. Where’s Rumple? Somebody’s got to be the smart girl in this story.” Then, in comes Rumple.

So, although it’s unconventional motherly advice. I’m pretty sure my daughter would survive if she’s ever trapped in a horror story.

[RumplesGirl]

@Cinders that post just won at life.

I guess the question is, did Zelena want that second chance or not? She told Regina “what if I don’t wan it?” If she managed to escape, get her necklace, would she have started all over again, but this time been even more ruthless?

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[Grimmsister]

Thats different Cinders, the characters were not trapped and in imidiate danger from Z once Regina took her pendant and powers away.

Problem is RG villains never want that chance that they are offered first of. They think they are justified in what ever villainous thing they are doing, otherwise they wouldnt have been doing it in the first place. Regina didnt want her second chance offered to her by Snow, she didnt want the third, the fourth the… twentiest either but thank God circumstanced and Snows good patience made it so that she is still around to take her chance this number one hundreth time its offered to her.. I say it was worth the wait.

You can argue that maybe giving Z this chance would have proved a bad choice- if Z somehow did break out of jail, got her powers back and somehow killed you, or one of your loved ones. Snow giving Regina chances sure did end up in many close calls for Snow and her loved ones, but in the end it proved to be the right choice still. So there is no easy answer. But only that you have to bet on the good outcome, if you want to do the right thing.

[PriceofMagic]

Zelena would definitely have tried to kill them all again because she’s so consumed by jealousy. It’s all very well Regina threatening to kill her if she did try something like that again, but that’s almost like shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted.

Question is, Should Zelena have been given the chance to hurt them all again, potentially using baby Charming in a spell again?

All magic comes with a price!

Keeper of Felix

[schaendlich]

Actually, Grimmsistr, I partially agree with you.

He shouldn’t be left to rage. I suppose I worded it in a strange way. For example, when Regina was out for Snow’s blood, Snow was gaurded heavily, meaning that Regina could not kill her. However, when Snow confronted Regina, it was always made clear that Regina’s misery and anger was a normal reaction, before she was told that killing Snow was wrong (by other people). That is what I mean. Intercept his plans as he tries them, (This should include Belle taking a firm stand with him) while also giving him a moment to simply exist without having what he shouldn’t be doing foisted upon him.

But this is where our opinions branch off.

Especially coming from Regina, telling him this right off is not a form of love. I have seen morality used as a defensive mechanism. It’s not comforting. It’s not something to say to someone in that situation in the way that it’s said to him. It’s hypocritical and insensitive.

For example:
If someone is religious, and their mother is killed in a church. The last thing they want to hear from the athiest to their left after that is “Only terrible ungodly people would be angry right now”. (No, I’m not anti-religion. I am religious, just giving an example)

That is just not the way to speak to anyone in that situation. Especially the way it was worded by Regina (who would rip Zelena’s face off if she killed Henry), it was very patronizing and obnoxious from the viewpoint of someone who had just lost half of everything.

[Felie]

I dislike the double standards this fandom has in relation to the atrocities of villains. I cannot bring myself to actually like Rumple or Regina due to the knowledge of their past (I do think they are interesting characters, but I’m just a bit apathetic towards them and the outcomes of any plights they may be facing). And although some people seem to accept that they have been ‘redeemed’, to me they have not been.

I actually liked Zelina as a character and felt for her due to her mother’s rejection of her as an infant, etc. This empathy for her, along with the fact that she never actually killed anyone on-screen (nor were we told of any past killings by her hands), made me feel like she was the best ‘redeemable’ true villain in the show to date.

I just don’t know what to say about the killing of Zelena tbh. I feel quite sorry for Rumple/Rumbelle fans, as his actions were that of a… well, I don’t know. He tricked Belle, yes, but that was just the tip of the iceberg; he had all the power when he teleported himself into a lone woman’s cell, knowing she couldn’t escape or fend him off, and stabbed her to death. She believed she had been given a second chance (how many have Rumple and Regina been given, again?), and this was one of the saddest parts about it. I don’t think it would irk me as much as it does if it weren’t for the fact that the same people who give Rumple a pass for all sorts of reasons (she was still a risk, she ‘killed’ Neal, she ‘deserved it’/’had it coming’, etc.) weren’t also the same people who root for Rumple and Regina, knowing full well that they’ve both been confirmed to have done 1000x worse than Zelina in their time.

I just… can’t seem to get my head around it; that scene where Rumple kills the mute girl has always kind of haunted me for some reason (in regards to the show, not real life, duh), and I cannot stand the idea of someone else in a helpless situation being brutally murdered by Rumple, only for him to get a free pass yet again!

"so there’s this new show….."
"there’s lesbians in it"

[PriceofMagic]

Regina shouldn’t have been the one to give the “heroes don’t kill” speech. Had it been Snow or Emma, it would’ve been more acceptable, but Regina taking the moral high ground was the last thing Rumple needed in that moment. Belle handled it better but at that point Rumple was determined to exact his revenge on Zelena. Also it’s possible Regina telling him not to kill Zelena made Rumple even more determined. Regina would have definitely murdered Zelena if she had killed Henry which is why she came across as so hypocritical.

All magic comes with a price!

Keeper of Felix

[sherazade]

If Belle is being naive in what she’s asking of Rumple, then what could she have asked that would be fair to the grief and trauma Rumple is going through but also not murder?

I’m not sure there was anything she could have asked. Maybe she wasn’t naive to ask perse. But I do think she was naive to believe he wouldn’t go after Zelena. He did the complete same thing in season 2, after he promised not to go after Regina. Belle knows him and knows he can be vengeful and violent and despite the best intentions, is in a pretty dark place after losing his son. Best thing she could have done? Take him out of Storybrooke? Don’t let him out of her sight? I hear Phuket is quite lovely this time of year.

Having Zelena and Rumple in one town at that point was a disaster waiting to happen.

Not saying this was Belle’s fault, mind you. It was definitely a dick-move Rumple pulled. I was disappointed, but in a “this stinks, but yeah… it’s totally what Rumple would do” kinda way. He’s not a very nice person. But then I’m sure that Regina, despite her being all redeemed and light-magic and whatnot, would do the same if someone locked her away for a year and killed Henry.

(Edit: Gah, Priceofmagic, you typed what I was thinking while I was thinking it!)

[Felie]

Yeah, I don’t really understand why she never overtly tried to kill anyone except Hook and Henry (and she tried to kill them for bait, not to get them out of the way, make people’s lives a misery, etc.). She’s had so many chances to kill people she didn’t need for the curse, but never did it, or even tried to. Surely the best action for her would have been to kill everyone she didn’t need for the curse and imprison those she did need until the time came for her to use them. I know that in reality the writers couldn’t very well kill everyone on the show, but she was never shown to have permanently killed even one person (no, I don’t count Neal). Why, if they wanted the audience to see her as the worst villain yet, and a justifiable kill for Rumple, would they not have her be a bloodthirsty killer like Regina and Rumple were.

"so there’s this new show….."
"there’s lesbians in it"

[PriceofMagic]

Great minds think alike sherazade 🙂

I think Rumple meant every word he said to Belle, however Zelena was that “one last job” Rumple needed to do before he could settle down with Belle. I’m convinced that after killing Zelena, Rumple went back home to Belle and swapped the daggers back so Belle had the real one again.

Also, aside from avenging Neal and revenge for what Zelena put himself through, another reason Rumple would’ve had to kill Zelena was that it would protect Belle. The last person Rumple didn’t kill despite them going after Rumple and targeting Belle because Belle said so then went ahead and shot Belle, causing her to fall over the town line and lose her identity. Rumple didn’t want to give Zelena the chance to hurt Belle.

It was clear that Zelena wasn’t going to take the second chance, she showed no remorse or guilt whatsoever for what she put Rumple through. The only time she even tried to act repentant was when she realised Rumple was actually going to kill her. Rumple did the right thing in killing Zelena, it sucks that he did have to lie to Belle to do it, however, last time he listened to Belle on not to kill a villain (which Hook was at the time), it didn’t end well for Belle. Rumple didn’t want to take that chance because Zelena would’ve done far worse than Hook did.

All magic comes with a price!

Keeper of Felix

[Author]

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