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Ah, it wouldn’t be TV if we didn’t disagree on stuff.
The Bruce stuff may not be my cup of tea, but I don’t feel strongly enough that I’m going to flip off the TV. I’m still here after I swore the show off in S1 š And they’ll keep me so long as they keep up their current momentum.
[adrotate group="5"]"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Ah, it wouldnāt be TV if we didnāt disagree on stuff. The Bruce stuff may not be my cup of tea, but I donāt feel strongly enough that Iām going to flip off the TV. Iām still here after I swore the show off in S1
And theyāll keep me so long as they keep up their current momentum.True its bound to happen from time to time. š
RG I am scared for Harvey like so Scared.
"I will be kind but I will speak my mind."
I admit that I had a moment of, āWhy is Bruce at the police station?ā But the more personal moment between him and Jim worked for me, because it came hard on the heels of Luciusā confession that he regretted not having told Thomas Wayne what heād meant to him, so the scene with Jim was Bruce learning that lesson.
I’m wondering if the show is planning on making Lucius Fox homosexual. The way he talked about his “love” for Thomas and his regret at not telling him seemed to go beyond employer/employee boundaries.
The show has already had a lesbian (Montoya), a bisexual (Barbara), so it wouldn’t surprise me if they did choose to add a gay male character in the form of Lucius.
I was bummed that the quiet, crazy guy in the Maniax, donāt remember his name, but the one the cops got, I was getting a kick outta him and was bummed he got killed.
I’m surprised they killed off half of the maniax within the first two episodes. Six were broken out, now we’re down to three. I think the bald guy will be killed off next, Jerome will be sent back to Arkham so that he can come back for future appearances, and Barbara will be the only one left on the loose.
Theo is so cold and controlled and scary, James Frain is killing it. Theyāve said that his characterās true identity is someone who people will know from the comics, and even though I dunno much about the comics, Iām excited to see who he ends up being.
I’ve been watching the last episode several times and I think that Theo may actually be Ra’s Al Ghul.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixLast night’s Gotham was a good episode though I was disappointed in the ending.
I think the writers have just shot themselves in the foot. They made a big mistake killing off Jerome.
Gotham can’t decide if it wants to be a prequel or an AU. They’ve killed off Essen, Maroni, got rid of Falcone, all characters who are around when Batman is active. Maroni is even the reason why Harvey Dent became Two Face. We are never going to see Batman on the show. Bruce is only 12/13 in-show, even if he becomes Batman at 18, that’s still 5-6 years away timeline wise (unless they plan to do a full costumed teenage batman, but logically Alfred wouldn’t allow it). Even if each season was set a year after the last season, we still wouldn’t see Batman until season 6 at the earliest. However season 2 is set only a month after season 1 so Batman is a long way off for Bruce and the audience. There will probably be lengthy time skips somewhere down the line due to the fact that Bruce’s actor isn’t going to stay a boy forever. It also isn’t guaranteed that Gotham will even reach four seasons let alone six. As an AU, Gotham works better. You’ve still got your unchangeable events such as the Wayne murders and Bruce becomes Batman, but there’s more freedom to play around with the characters. Yes you’ve got to get them from point A to point B but how they get there is entirely up to creative decisions.
Jerome has now become an unintentionally sympathetic character. In his first appearance, The blind fortune teller, he seemed crazy because he murdered his mother just because she nagged him to do the dishes. However, with the reveal that she used to beat him as a child with whatever man she had at the time, The blind fortune teller just became Jerome’s snapping point. The Galavans broke the inmates out of Arkham, and manipulated and used them as pawns to achieve their goals. Tabitha was constantly watching them from afar. She was there when they threw the guys off the buildings, she was there at the school bus incident and shot one of them when he got caught. I think Theo planned to kill Jerome from the start of the episode in order to look like a hero. The “Jerome’s waiting outside, make sure he stays focussed” is a dead giveaway. Jerome has always been in the room, but now suddenly he’s being excluded. Jerome’s backstory and line “I’ve met a guy dad, he says he’s going to make me a star” becomes kind of tragic. Jerome was an abused kid who was told by his own father (though he didn’t know that at the time) that no one cared about him, that he didn’t matter. essentially that he was worthless. After he snaps and is sent to Arkham, suddenly he meets someone who tells him that he’s important, that he’s going to matter, that he’s going to be remembered. Of course Jerome would go along with Theo’s plan because at it’s core, it gave him something that he had so desperately craved as a kid, the feeling of being wanted. Also Theo praised the maniax for their actions so again that plays into the desire of wanting to be acknowledged as a person (even if the actions were warped and evil).
Jerome said he was 9 and that his mother had only finished “round 1” of “boozing, boning, and beating up Jerome” with the guy she met. He was 18 when he murdered her. So for 9 years, Jerome put up with it and everyone in the circus turned a blind eye. The one person Jerome did tell what was going on turned round and essentially told him that no one cared about him. It is almost certain that his mother’s abuse continued. The tragedy of that situation is had someone actually taken notice of what was going on and stopped it, Jerome could’ve walked a very different path than what he ended up on. His flair as the magician suggests that maybe he missed his vocation.
Another thing that makes me think Theo set Jerome up to die was that the trapdoor that Barbara escaped through wasn’t that big. It wouldn’t have fit two people through at the same time meaning Jerome and Barbara would’ve had to go first and second. Considering Barbara wasn’t the one Theo killed to look like a hero, it suggests that Barbara was always intended to escape whilst Jerome wasn’t. Theo apologised to a dying Jerome whilst stabbing him, saying it wasn’t what they “rehearsed” but as explained above, I think Theo always intended for Jerome to die, Tabitha knew it and Barbara’s lack of surprise makes me think Barbara knew it too, that’s why Jerome was kept out of the room, that’s why the trapdoor was so small, and that’s why everyone seemed to calm and unbothered by Jerome’s death. That was the plan. Also what made Theo Galavan choose those 6 particular Arkham inmates for his “team”?
The main sticking point for me about Jerome’s death was the fact he was so obviously the Joker. He had all the Joker traits and mannerisms. Teasing that anyone could be the Joker was fine throughout season 1, but when they fleshed out Jerome’s character beyond his first appearance, he was obviously the Joker before he took up the Joker moniker, and having him and Bruce interact now before either of them became their monikers actually sets up an interesting dynamic for their future run in as Batman and the Joker.
Not having Jerome be the Joker actually diminishes the potential Joker in the Gotham universe. Joker dislikes anyone trying to steal his “act” so to have someone become the Joker Because they copied someone else’s act is an insult to the character. Joker is the original and the one and only Joker, Jerome was the original and now Gotham’s actual Joker is just going to be a copy-cat because Jerome did it first.
I get that the writers can’t have Jerome running free all season because that would make Gordon look incompetent, Jerome’s actor has commitments to Shameless, and the writers want to tell other stories this season as well. But why didn’t they have Jerome taken back to Arkham and put in solitary confinement which would’ve probably just added more crazy to the point where he becomes the fully fledged Joker? You’ve kept Jerome alive so you can use him for future appearances, you’ve kept him out of the way so he doesn’t steal the limelight from other characters, and you’ve set up the connection between Batman and the Joker. It’s a win/win on all fronts.
Even if the reason Jerome was killed off was because of the possibility that he might “talk” and reveal Theo Galavan’s duplicitous nature, there is an easy way to write around that and still keep Jerome alive. Either have Jerome refuse to talk because he finds it more amusing to see Gordon running around figuratively blind (perhaps solitary confinement could be the punishment until he talks) or since Theo has covered his tracks well and is now seen as the city hero, who would seriously believe the word of a madman over the denial of a hero who saved a room of people from said madman. Maybe Gordon is the only one who believes Jerome and then is quest for the season is to try and find a shred of evidence to prove Theo Galavan masterminded the Arkham breakout. You’ve then got the Gordon against the city dynamic and perhaps even added contention between Bruce and Gordon because Gordon suspects Galavan whereas Bruce trust Galavan and even looks up to him as a hero.
By killing off Jerome, the writers have missed a golden opportunity and wasted a perfectly good character.
Onto other bits of the show:
Barbara- Barbara is so much more fun now that she is evil and it seems like her relationship with both Theo and Tabitha is going to become a source of contention between the siblings. Barbara is delusional in thinking she and Jim will get back together and you can see why Leslie is concerned for her own safety since Barbara views her as the “other woman”.
Leslie- I like Leslie, she’s one of the more realistic characters on the show. She’s concerned for her own safety from Barbara instead of just shrugging it off yet she’s not cowering in a corner and letting it dominate her life. She’s concerned about Jim but she’s letting him have his own space and work things through on his own without smothering him. It’ll be interesting to see where the Jim/Leslie relationship goes (Again, the show has gone AU in this regard).
Bruce and Alfred- I actually didn’t mind Bruce this episode. His role supported the main story without taking time away from it which I think is the best way to handle Bruce’s character until he starts becoming more interesting in the Batman stakes. Alfred’s crush on Leslie was adorable and his disappointed resignation that she was in a relationship with Jim was funny.
Jim and Bullock- Their partnership works and you could believe how Jim would become almost obsessive about making Jerome pay for killing Essen. I also liked how Bullock went to Penguin and warned him about what he would do to him if Penguin messed around with Jim.
Penguin- Penguin did not approve of Jerome’s way of doing things. It could have set up an interesting rivalry between the two plus if Penguin found out that Theo was the puppet master then you’ve got that added dimension as well. But once again it’s a wasted opportunity.
Selina- I don’t think the writers know exactly what to do with Selina. She disappears and reappears randomly. There’s no storyline for her. She hasn’t even mentioned Ivy even though those two hung out a lot last season.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixI think what they did with Jerome ended up being a clever way to incorporate the spirit of Joker into the universe of the show.
Personally I’d have been fine with it if they’d recaptured him and thrown him back in Arkham, leaving us to believe that Jerome stews away in there and does indeed become Joker some day. But I know that many comic fans straight up hated the idea of Joker being given an origin story, because a big point of the character is that he doesn’t have an origin story, he just IS. Even if people enjoyed Cameron’s performance as Jerome, they would still not love the aspect of it that was giving Joker an origin story.
So the way they did it, they got to play with a Joker-esque character, they got to have that element of crazy in the show’s universe, (and seriously a show about Gotham would have felt incomplete if they never touched on Joker at all), but in the end, we still don’t know who Joker really is, he’s still a mythical enigma, as he’s always been. It’s like they got the best of both worlds IMO.
We know he’s someone who will be inspired by Jerome, but he’ll be smarter, he’ll make sure he’s always in charge, so no one gets the better of him, the way Theo got Jerome, (and yes it was obviously a part of Theo’s plan all along to kill Jerome, setting him up to be a vicious threat, then taking him out in a very public way, thus endearing himself to the people of Gotham, making it easier for him to take the whole place over). So as scary, and unhinged, and bold, and crafty as Jerome was, we’re left with the knowledge that someone out there will be next level, someone out there will some day be WORSE. And I’m sure we’ll never actually see that person, but knowing they’re lurking out there somewhere makes the idea of him plenty foreboding, (it’s often just the idea of something you can’t see that’s scarier than seeing the actual thing).
I HAVE SO MUCH TO SAY BUT MUST WAIT TILL I CAN TYPE COHERENTLY.
Also enjoyed reading your commentary @PriceofMagic
"I will be kind but I will speak my mind."
@Phee I also enjoy reading yours. I am still processing what I want to say. LOL
"I will be kind but I will speak my mind."
Personally Iād have been fine with it if theyād recaptured him and thrown him back in Arkham, leaving us to believe that Jerome stews away in there and does indeed become Joker some day. But I know that many comic fans straight up hated the idea of Joker being given an origin story, because a big point of the character is that he doesnāt have an origin story, he just IS. Even if people enjoyed Cameronās performance as Jerome, they would still not love the aspect of it that was giving Joker an origin story.
I disagree. Gotham is so AUish at times, I think it would’ve worked to have THIS Joker have an origin. Even if they never called Jerome the Joker, he was clearly the Joker. In the comics, the Joker must’ve come from somewhere, we just don’t know where exactly. If Gotham is indeed written as an AU, with things suggesting that it is instead of following continuity, then the writers have more freedom to play around. You’ve got your unchangeable events eg Wayne murders and Bruce becomes Batman, but HOW you get from point A to point B is up to interpretation. They could’ve had Jerome be the actual Joker with an origin and still had the Joker/Batman dynamic. Plus whose to say that over the years, stories about Jerome wouldn’t have gotten more outlandish and distorted until the point that the fact couldn’t be separated from the fiction. The audience might know where Jerome came from but the other characters wouldn’t.
So the way they did it, they got to play with a Joker-esque character, they got to have that element of crazy in the showās universe, (and seriously a show about Gotham would have felt incomplete if they never touched on Joker at all), but in the end, we still donāt know who Joker really is, heās still a mythical enigma, as heās always been. Itās like they got the best of both worlds IMO.
We know heās someone who will be inspired by Jerome, but heāll be smarter, heāll make sure heās always in charge, so no one gets the better of him, the way Theo got Jerome, (and yes it was obviously a part of Theoās plan all along to kill Jerome, setting him up to be a vicious threat, then taking him out in a very public way, thus endearing himself to the people of Gotham, making it easier for him to take the whole place over). So as scary, and unhinged, and bold, and crafty as Jerome was, weāre left with the knowledge that someone out there will be next level, someone out there will some day be WORSE. And Iām sure weāll never actually see that person, but knowing theyāre lurking out there somewhere makes the idea of him plenty foreboding, (itās often just the idea of something you canāt see thatās scarier than seeing the actual thing).
I disagree. The Joker has always prided himself on being original, the one and only, he gets annoyed if someone tries to steal his act. So for the “real” Joker to copy-cat someone else’s act is an insult to the character.
On the other hand, however, it’s very possible that perhaps Jerome WAS the Joker. This show killed off Maroni who was responsible for turning Harvey Dent into Two Face before he could turn Harvey Dent into Two Face. That screws with comic continuity right there. I don’t think anything will become of the mad people inspired by Jerome, the show has other stories to tell.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixWith the way television is now…whose to say that Jerome’s really dead. A lot of characters have come back to life on screen, heck, for those who know of the soap opera Days of Our Lives…the main villain Stefano Dimera has “died” five times and returned.
And also, I kinda like that Jerome’s dead because listen, it gives the opportunity for someone (cough) Harley Quinn (cough) to resurrectĀ him one day down the line, imagine the shock and horror he will see when he realizes all the copy cats who copied off of him, and like @PriceofMagic said….The Joker hates copycats who copied off of him, and that’s when Jerome, who has learned from his past mistakes,Ā becomes the full fledged Joker, deciding to gain the loudest last laugh ever, proving to everyone in Gotham City that there’s only one Joker, and that’s the original.
And I swear this first interaction between Jerome and Bruce was the best scene so far all season, and the acting was brilliant! When Cameron screamed “Brucie” I knew that this boy had perfected the role of the Joker! Jerome was a tease, but I highly doubt this is the last we will see of him….The Joker Shall Rise Again and put an end to all those who’ve mimicked the original.
"If you go as far as you can see...you will then see enough to go even further." - Finn Balor
And theyāll keep me so long as they keep up their current momentum.
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