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You say there is no Hand of Fate in universe but how do we know? Because while lack of evidence is not evidence itself, even characters in universe seem to think that there might something bigger at play pushing those three souls together.
Pretty much. We question how fate works in the Harry Potter universe, and yet don’t we all do the same thing in real life? We’re never going to get a definitive answer, because it all comes down to the mystery of life. Even in the Wizarding world, there are many questions left to be answered. Which goes back to magic not being able to solve all of their problems, but instead complicate things even further.
[adrotate group="5"]Sure, I agree that he could have met any other wizarding student BUT you change that one factor–Ron–and it’s a whole new ballgame. Are Dean, Seamus, or Neville going to be as loyal, brave, and willing to go on as many adventures and put themselves as much danger as Ron does? Maybe. But to the extent that Ron is? To the extent that Hermione is? I personally don’t know.
What we’re talking about is an AU, and only the author could answer that question completely. What we know from the text is that all of them belong to House Gryffindor, whose members are noted for their daring, bravery and chivalry. For all I know, it could’ve been the case that Dean and Seamus became as willing as Ron and Hermione did to go on adventures with Harry. It’s Harry himself who inspires loyalty in his friends, so I suppose if Dean and Seamus had become Harry’s best friends first, Harry would’ve had a similar influence on them.
You say there is no Hand of Fate in universe but how do we know? Because while lack of evidence is not evidence itself, even characters in universe seem to think that there might something bigger at play pushing those three souls together.
I didn’t say there is no hand of fate at play at all in the story (reread my original post). What I wrote was that not everything is down to fate. Certain big plot points are certainly down to fate, but the everyday things aren’t so much a matter of fate as they are circumstance. Harry meeting Ron first, as opposed to Dean, is a matter of luck, as Ron’s mother said. I take luck to be good fortune, as in chance. Do I think Ron and Harry were destined to meet just when they did? No, not necessarily — except in the mind of J.K. Rowling. I don’t mean to detract from Ron or the Weasleys. Clearly, J.K. Rowling wanted Harry to meet that family in particular, but I’m not sure there was some cosmic force driving them together in the story itself.
I don’t think everything that happens to Harry is just down to fate, though a lot of the big things are. While Harry is certainly marked by destiny in ways he doesn’t yet understand, on a day-to-day level of analysis, Harry has to go through life, the same as every other student, and a lot of it is trial and error. Sometimes Harry gets it really right (like when he stands up to Draco and ends up being made Seeker), but other times, he gets it really wrong like when Draco finds out Hagrid has a dragon egg that’s hatched.
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
Harry meeting Ron first, as opposed to Dean, is a matter of luck, as Ron’s mother said.
The problem is trying saying that there’s nothing behind luck or behind. That it’s all random circumstance. A matter of luck could very well be fate pushing them together. There’s no evidence for it, but also no evidence against it and, like I said a page back in a world where magic exists and we do have prophecy and, maybe more to the point, in a story where Harry’s survival and success often depends on having Ron and/or Hermione by his side, I’m not going to discount a little bit of fate where Harry, Ron and Hermione are concerned. That’s really all I’m trying to get at here. What we might call luck or chance is really fate/magic working in the world.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"I think the theme of the Harry Potter series isn’t about fate but rather free will. Whilst we do have certain characters mention fate, a lot of what happens is preceded by choice. For example, Harry “chose” to be in Gryffindor over Slytherin, Harry “chose” not to be friends with Draco, Harry “chooses” to be proactive in trying to save people and stop threats. The Dursleys “chose” to treat Harry poorly. As we later find out in a later book The prophesy regarding the boy who would be Voldemort’s downfall could have referred to either Harry or Neville. Voldemort “chose” Harry. It could also be argued that Voldemort’s true downfall didn’t occur until book 7 and that it is the choice he made that caused the events of the series to happen as they did rather than fate making them happen
Harry chose to do a lot of things whereas he could’ve turned around and gone nope, let the teachers handle it. Ron and Hermione chose to stick by Harry.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixI completely agree that Harry Potter exists in a “free will universe” where free will and choice are vital to the story. Absolutely. Where I think fate plays a heavier hand is in Harry, Ron, and Hermione’s coming together. While they chose to be friends and to stick by one another through the years, I think fate played a role in pushing them together at the very least because so often Harry’s survival and success throughout the series the first time of which we’ll be discussing here at the end of book 1 depends on Ron and/or Hermione and in-universe, at least, changing those two components would yield a different story.
Example: so while Harry chooses to go after Mrs Weasely and ask for help on Platform 9 3/4, who is to say that fate didn’t ensure that they would be the first magical family he ran across.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Okay I’ve been slacking. But I am going to respond. This chapter is really the foundations of the series. It bonds the three together for the rest of their lives. Who knew that Ron insulting Hermione and then the two going to save her would bond all three forever!
Why do you think Hermione can be a haughty know-it-all?
My opinion is Hermione is obviously smart. She is the type of smart that knows how to study and enjoys it. I’ve known many “gifted” classmates in school who got straight As but never lifted a book and then did horribly in college because they had no study skills. But Hermione seems to have that combination of both natural intelligence and the aptitude for seeing out information.
I think, firstly, she loves knowledge for knowledge sake. She just loves learning. But I think another part though is she’s a frightened girl. She probably retreated to her books as a young child because she didn’t fit in. A huge reason for that could be her unknown magic at the time. I wonder how magic manifested itself at a young age with her. We see with Harry he grew his hair out, was able to get away from Dudley’s bullying, etc. But for Hermione, we really have no idea. She was odd to her peers so leaned on her books. She’s used to being bright and going into this new environment she naturally goes back to the coping mechanisms she’s already cultivated…study, study, study.
It’s just a cycle that keeps going. She doesn’t have many friends because she’s odd, so she studies and reads, which makes her stand out in class and an oddball which leads to no friends.
Would you have been friends with Hermione at school?
I know you all are probably going to say right away that I would be friends with Hermione, but I don’t know. I wasn’t in the gifted/smart clique in my grade at school. I don’t know why, but I just never got along with most of them. I got As and Bs and the occassional C,(I did better at University than in High School) but I was mostly friends with the normal aptitude kids or the slackers. That said I did graduate high school with high honors, so maybe I was a Hermione and my friends were more Ron and Harry speed, who knows. Maybe you need that balance. When I got to college it was a different story. Most of the people in my programs were there to learn and especially grad school we all worked to help each other. Totally different atmosphere than high school.
Do you think Hermione, Harry and Ron still would have become friends if there had never been a troll incident?
I’m going to say yes. Not getting into the whole fate vs. free will vs. destiny, but I think somehow those three would have bonded over one adventure or another. If it wasn’t the troll it would have been something else. A three legged stool will always be stable on an uneven surface. Harry, Ron and Hermione are that three legged stool. Each has their job and purpose. You take one away and it all falls over. So for the story to go forward and succeed all three were needed for the tasks ahead.
Which Quidditch position would you want to play?
Can I pick the position Hermione played? The supporter in the stands who cheers as the others fly around? I’m deathly afraid of heights (and falling) so I probably would never be into actually playing Quidditch, but I would be a fervent supporter. 😉
Keeper of Rumplestiltskin's and Neal's spears and war paint and crystal ball.
A three legged stool will always be stable on an uneven surface. Harry, Ron and Hermione are that three legged stool. Each has their job and purpose. You take one away and it all falls over. So for the story to go forward and succeed all three were needed for the tasks ahead
I agree emphatically with this statement.
Can I pick the position Hermione played? The supporter in the stands who cheers as the others fly around? I’m deathly afraid of heights (and falling) so I probably would never be into actually playing Quidditch, but I would be a fervent supporter.
So we’ve got one Seeker, four Keepers, and one Cheerleader. I’m not a sportsball expert, but I don’t think this is how it works. 😉
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Just read an interesting theory on tvtropes.org on the Harry Potter series regarding the Durleys.
Basically being near a horcrux long enough can cause some corruption in an individual. Eg Ron and the necklace. Well consider this, Harry himself was a horcrux. The Dursleys were around him for 10/11 years. It’s possible that their anger and resentment of him could have been amplified due to being close to a Horcrux.
Read more: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Fridge/HarryPotter#ixzz3kWpyMMhB
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixPOM how dare you link me to TvTropes…. Now I’m about lose hours of my night reading up about EVERYTHING >_< Tvtropes is a drug :3
"I could have the giant duck as my steed!" --Daniel Radcliffe
Keeper Of Tamara's Taser , Jafar's Staff, Kitsis’s Glasses , Ariel’s Tail, Dopey's Hat , Peter Pan’s Shadow, Outfit, & Pied Cloak,Red Queen's Castle, White Rabbit's Power To World Hop, Zelena's BroomStick, & ALL MAGICCHAPTER 11: QUIDDITCH
SUMMARY
It’s November and Quidditch season has begun. Gryffindor is playing Slytherin and if they win they move into second place for the House championship. Oliver Wood, the Gryffindor captain, has been keeping Harry a secret to throw the other team off. In addition to Quidditch, as the result of the event on Halloween, Harry, Ron and Hermione have become friends, for which Harry is glad. She helps with the boys’ with their homework and has become more relaxed about breaking rules herself. One day, the three were outside warming themselves by a fire Hermione conjured in a jam jar when Professor Snape happens along. They huddle to the hide the flame but in the process attract his attention. He ends up confiscating Harry’s library book “Quidditch Through the Ages”, saying library books are not permitted outside. Later that night Harry goes to the teacher’s lounge to retrieve the book, believing Snape might return it if other teachers are around. When nobody answers his knock he opens the door and sees Snape with his robes raised, exposing a bloody wound and talking to Filch
“Blasted thing,” Snape was saying. “How are you supposed to keep your eyes on all three heads at once?”
–SS, p. 182
Snape sees Harry standing in the doorway and yells at him to leave. Harry returns to his common room and with Ron and Hermione discusses Snape’s injury. Harry, along with Ron, comes to the conclusion that Snape is attempting to steal whatever the three headed dog is guarding and also let the troll in on Halloween as a diversion. Hermione, however, doesn’t want to believe that a teacher would do that.
The next day Harry’s first Quidditch game has arrived. Ron and Hermione sit in the stands with Neville, Seamus and Dean and holding a banner in support of their friend. Hagrid joins them in the stands, having a better seat than at his hut. Lee Jordan, a friend of the Weasley twins, provides the colorful commentary as Professor McGonagall chastises him frequently. The game begins with Quaffles being scored and Bludgers being hurled. Harry hovers above all so he can scan the area. At one point he spies the Golden Snitch, but is knocked off course by a foul from the Slytherin captain. Play continues, but at one point Harry’s broom starts to act erratic. Hagrid notices through his binoculars and soon all the students in the stands are watching Harry try to stay on his broom. Even the players in the game begin ignoring it in an attempt to save Harry. Hermione, using Hagrid’s binoculars, spies Snape mumbling something and keeping eye contact on Harry and becomes suspicious he’s the cause. She alerts Ron she’ll be back and races to the other side of the stands and, after bumping into Quirrell, casts her small flame spell at Snape and sets the bottom of his robes on fire. After he notices, she retrieves the flame, puts it in her tiny jar and hurries back without being noticed. Harry is suddenly able to get back on his broom and speeds toward the ground. As he lands, he spits out the Golden Snitch having caught it in his mouth in his descent and wins the game for Gryffindor.
After the game, the kids celebrate at Hagrid’s. Ron and Hermione tell them about Snape’s actions. When Harry reveals what happened the night before in the teacher’s lounge, Hagrid refuses to believe that Snape is trying to steal anything or hurt Harry. He then lets slip that the animal, Fluffy, whom he lent to Dumbledore is guarding something that is strictly between the Headmaster and Nicholas Flamel. Harry now has a new clue and Hagrid is furious with himself for revealing it.
ANALYSIS
Authority figures aren’t infallible
“Honesty, Hermione, you think all teachers are saints or something,” snapped Ron.
–SS, p. 183
Teachers and authority figures are supposed to guide, mold, and teach the students. Rules are created for a reason. However, in this chapter we begin to see that the adults at Hogwarts are not perfect. Hermione, especially, changes her opinion by the end of the chapter. When Harry reveals what he overheard between Snape and Filch in the teacher’s lounge, she is reluctant to believe Snape could be doing anything wrong. Yes, he’s unfair in class and used some made-up rule to confiscate Harry’s library book, but attempting to steal from Hogwarts is another issue. She, and the reader in a way, undergo a loss of innocence when it becomes apparent that someone is sabotaging Harry during the Quidditch game.
“Did something happen to it when Flint blocked him?” Seamus whispered.
“Can’t have,” Hagrid said, his voice shaking. “Can’t nothing interfere with a broomstick except powerful Dark magic–no kid could do that to a Nimbus Two Thousand.”
–SS, p. 190
Someone is jinxing Harry’s broom and it appears as if Snape is the culprit. Hermione doesn’t think twice about momentarily setting Snape’s robes on fire to save Harry, an action that would have been unthinkable previously. She undergoes a change in her beliefs and learns that everyone can’t be trusted.
To a lesser degree, the three learn that Hagrid, too, makes mistakes. In this instance, he’s able to be tricked into revealing information they shouldn’t know. The fact that Hagrid can be manipulated is something Harry, Ron and Hermione will utilize more throughout the series.
Good vs. Evil
There is a lot of competition in this chapter. It is titled Quidditch after all. We have Gryffindor vs. Slytherin. The house of Harry, his parents and friends versus the house from which a lot of bad wizards emerged. It’s no surprise that Slytherin’s team has some underhanded tactics at play: fouling Harry to prevent him from catching the Snitch, scoring goals when everyone else including the fans are concentrating on Harry’s ordeal. But of course Gryffindor wins because good wins over evil in the end.
What’s happening in the stands parallels what’s happening on the field–good vs. evil. Instead of a group of students doing underhanded things on the field, though, we have someone, for the first time since he was a baby, outright trying to destroy Harry. Evil has arrived at Hogwarts. Yes, we had the troll, but this is a direct hit, not a diversion. But like in the match, evil doesn’t succeed. Hermione’s proactive response prevents the evildoer who we all know is not really Snape but she does prevent it anyway from completing his task. Once again good succeeds and evil fails. A theme that embodies the whole book and entire series.
FORESHADOWING
–Hagrid’s knowledge of Fluffy, the three-headed dog.
–Nicholas Flamel
DISCUSSION QUESTIONS
1. What do you think would happen if Harry, Ron and Hermione had approached Professor Dumbledore with their suspicions at this time?
2. What do Hermione’s actions at the Quidditch game reveal about her character?
Keeper of Rumplestiltskin's and Neal's spears and war paint and crystal ball.
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