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Do you think that Dumbledore is lying about what he sees in the mirror, or is he able to control his desires so much that he can manipulate what he sees?
Of course he is. Even when I first read this book as a kid, I knew he wasn’t quite being honest with that response.
Why didn’t Dumbledore reveal himself earlier, if he had known Harry (and Ron) had been visiting the mirror?
I think Dumbledore secretly wants Harry to pursue these mysteries. Perhaps Dumbledore feels these challenging experiences will prepare Harry for what lies ahead.
What do you think you’d see if you looked into the mirror?
It’s honestly hard to pinpoint what is truly my deepest and most desperate desire of my heart. I guess all I can say is that I could see myself happily content with the career of my dreams, and married with a family.
[adrotate group="5"]Going back to a topic a few pages ago, if Harry had befriended Draco rather than becoming enemies with him, what’s to say Harry’s influence wouldn’t have rubbed off on Draco rather than vice versa? How different would the readers view Draco if the story had been told from his point of view rather than Harry’s?
This is something I’ve been debating about since the beginning. Draco is a product of his upbringing just as Ron is. Not that I empathize, sympathize, excuse his behavior or even like Draco, it’s really interesting to theorize what the story could have been if Draco had been the one to befriend Harry instead of Ron. There are a lot of similarities to Harry/You-Know-Who/Snape, (and even Ron/Draco), for a reason. Harry seems to be the exception, rather than the rule, but with the right environment, or different choices, he easily could have been the next He-who-shall-not-be-named.
“It is our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities.”
Choice is such a huge theme throughout the series, even in the beginning. Had Harry’s choices of friends been different, we would have had a very different series on our hands (somebody get on that fanfic).
Keeper of the Cheshire Cat’s smile, Baelfire’s sword, Snow’s backpack, Robin Hood’s bow, Ariel’s purse, Ariel’s smile, Henry’s heart, Belle’s shoe collection
I’ll answer my own questions:
Do you think that Dumbledore is lying about what he sees in the mirror, or is he able to control his desires so much that he can manipulate what he sees?
This is something I’ve struggled with for a long time. Having read the series, I know he’s lying, but is he right now at this moment? Is he powerful (and damaged) enough to be able to change what the mirror reflects, or is the mirror able to do that no matter what? Did he torture himself with his reflection of his family just as Harry did, enough to be able to change what he saw? I often wonder if he spent a lot of time standing before the mirror, just as Harry did, and he figured out how to shield his heart from it so that he couldn’t be hurt anymore.
Why didn’t Dumbledore reveal himself earlier, if he had known Harry (and Ron) had been visiting the mirror?
Oh I for sure think Dumbledore had been in that room each night until he figured out the right time to reveal himself. #DumbledoreIsShady
What do you think you’d see if you looked into the mirror?
As even Harry realized it’s a very personal question, your deepest darkest desire. And I’ll admit, I’d probably be a bit (a lot) skinnier, with a couple of kids, and all of my family beside me. (Don’t tell my husband, he doesn’t come here). I’d probably have a different job, at least one that I was really passionate about. A small shop here in the town I live in, making my own hours, and not having to drive 100 miles a day. And I’d probably see my best friends beside my family, one who is 3000 miles away, and one who passed away last year.
OR I would be a rockstar. No kidding, I was a musician for a looooooong time, and I just stopped because life happened. I miss playing every day.
Keeper of the Cheshire Cat’s smile, Baelfire’s sword, Snow’s backpack, Robin Hood’s bow, Ariel’s purse, Ariel’s smile, Henry’s heart, Belle’s shoe collection
Really nice job Macy! This is such a great chapter.
A large part of this chapter is more slice of life moments, but woven between these is the idea that “family doesn’t end with blood” (forgive my Supernatural reference)
Any and all Supernatural references are necessary. Dean, Sam, and Cas are totally like Harry, Ron and Hermione.
Fred and George make Ron and eventually Percy put on their sweaters and they all celebrate together, because “Christmas is a time for family,” and that includes Harry. So it’s extremely poignant and heartbreaking that when Harry looks into the mirror, all he sees is his family surrounding him.
Yes. This chapter is set up as a parallel between the family Harry lost (and never knew) and the family he’s gained. I love how it’s not just Ron and Molly that take in our wayward son (Supernatural reference!) but it’s the whole Weasley clan. Fred and George don’t even think twice before they include Harry; he’s their youngest brother’s best friend and a member of their Quidditch team, another familial stand in for Harry. Percy might be a bit of a stick in the mud (sorry Jo) but he doesn’t question Harry’s inclusion either. In later books we’ll see Arthur adopt Harry as his other son, going to bat for him during all manner of drama. And, of course, a certain red-headed witch is on the horizon. What unites these two families is Harry and moreover the affection they have for him.
The Mirror of Erised is so *fascinating* because those people–James, Lily and the whole family–aren’t really there. They aren’t on the other side of the mirror. The family Harry sees is a projection of his desires. And this is what makes Harry and his experiences with the Weasleys even more poignant. Harry doesn’t visualize family as what he knows–the Dursleys. He visualizes family in the way he sees the Weasleys–a large group of people who all support and love one another and are there for each other no matter what. His reference point for what family is supposed to look like is the Weasley clan and he “reflects” that into the mirror.
I’ve always wondered what Harry would have seen in the mirror had he not met Ron and the rest of the clan. He would have seen James and Lily, no doubt, since his mother and father will always be the first thing Harry desires. But a huge family? I don’t know. In the second chapter, Harry knows that he has no family and he can’t even consider the possibility that he might have had a huge slew of relatives at one point. All he knows are the Dursleys. Outside of that lot, he’s utterly alone and family-less. And then suddenly here is this magic mirror that can show you your hearts desire and what Harry desires more than anything is not just his mother and father, but a huge sweeping generational family.
The feelings this invokes are powerful. Not just a feeling of desire but nostalgia.
He has a powerful kind of ache inside him, half joy, half terrible sadness.
Nostalgia is one of my favorite words because once you know its Greek roots it really hits what a powerful word and meaning it is.
Broken down into its component parts, “nost” comes from νοστος (nostos) meaning homecoming (and a word heavily associated with Odysseus and the Odyssey) and “algia” comes from αλγος (algos) meaning pain or ache. It’s this pain for something we might never ever be able to reach ever again. It’s a powerful feeling that is simultaneously sweet and bitter. Can we ever truly go home again, to find that sort of peace and serenity we once knew? No. Simply put, no.
I have to quote Donald Draper here. I just have to! (Macy got to use Supernatural…so I’m using Mad Men…) An ache from an old wound…that is what Harry has when he looks in the mirror. An ache from an old wound–the would of neglect and abuse and silent suffering. A wound of never being held and loved and cherished.
(also, sentimental bond with product…that us and Harry Potter, guys)
But this is even sadder for Harry because he’s never known it. He’s never known what it was to be protected and loved and sheltered, to have a childhood that wasn’t full of nightmares and darkness. Not until Hogwarts, at least. But yet he longs for it–his remembered past that doesn’t really exist except inside this mirror. Is it anyone wonder why it took a push from Dumbledore to get Harry to leave the mirror alone? I wouldn’t give it up either! The family in the mirror, it’s a place where Harry longs to go again. A place to where we know we are loved.
Which brings us to Grandfather Dumbledore who takes off his wise old wizard cap for one brief moment and tries to be part of Harry’s family.
I love that Dumbledore sits on the floor next to Harry. By sitting at his level, he is not trying to be the authority figure–hence why Harry can ask Dumbledore a highly personal question at the end–they’ve connected and forged a bond between them by letting the pretense of power and authority slip away it only for a moment.
It’s strange (even a little too coincidental) that he surprises Harry at a moment when he’s most vulnerable, searching for his heart’s (soul’s) desire, of knowing his family.
Yes, of all the times when Harry and Dumbledore could have intereacted for the first time, Dumbledore waits until now. And it’s not even the first time that Harry has visited the room, obviously. Dumbledore waited until Harry “got his fill.” He allows Harry his nostalgia, this pain from this old wound. Looking at the series as a whole, I think it is because Dumbledore knows that Harry is going on quite the hard journey, so what’s the harm in letting him have his moment, this tiny moment of happiness. But like any good parental figure, Dumbledore is there to pull him back from the edge when Harry is in danger of falling into the mirror (metaphorically, of course).
He did this right before Harry started school (and let’s not forget how convenient it was that the door to this classroom was conveniently ajar, to allow Harry to hide from Snape and Filch). Second, Dumbledore says he doesn’t “need a cloak to become invisible”, and he knows not only what Harry sees in the mirror but Ron as well. One can only assume that he is either psychic and/or can read minds, OR he has been in the room the last 3 nights that Harry has visited (and if he was, was he there for himself, or because he knew Harry would go?). Third, Dumbledore’s explanation and advice to Harry regarding the mirror: It shows men their deepest desire, it shows neither knowledge or truth, and many have been driven mad, not knowing if what they see is real or possible. It will be moved and please don’t go looking for it. But, if you do ever happen to run across it again, you’ll be prepared.
Yeah I think Dumbledore set this up. Or at least knew enough of human nature to know that Harry would stumble into that room at some point. I think Dumbledore is testing the waters; he needs to see what sort of boy Harry Potter is. What Harry sees in the mirror will tell Dumbledore whether or not Harry can take on the task Dumbledore knows lies before him at some point; not just here in Sorcerer’s Stone but over the course of his life. What if Harry’s deepest desires were less nostalgic and more cunning or ruthless. Power, wealth, ect? What would Dumbledore think then? Would he still think Harry the right person to face Voldemort someday?
Do you think that Dumbledore is lying about what he sees in the mirror, or is he able to control his desires so much that he can manipulate what he sees?
I think he absolutely lied. It’s a cute lie, but a lie nonetheless. It doesn’t matter how much time passes, Dumbledore will always see himself as the Master of the Deathly Hallows
But unlike other men, Dumbledore knows that achieving his desires or even pursuing them leads to nothing good. He is speaking from experience to Harry. He’s trying to get Harry to understand himself in a way that Dumbledore already knows himself. You can’t dwell on those dreams but you have to know that you have them; that you are capable of falling too hard into those dreams, whatever they may be.
Macy started off with a Shakespeare quote that was quite apt, but I’ll throw a Greek one here. Dumbledore dons a Plato/Socrates/Delphic inscription cap here and all but barks “γνῶθι σεαυτόν.” (gnothi seauton)…Know Thyself. It’s almost impossible task and not one that many people achieve, certainly not at 11. But Dumbledore needs Harry to know himself, to be prepared, because Dumbledore…sorta knows what is to come.
Why didn’t Dumbledore reveal himself earlier, if he had known Harry (and Ron) had been visiting the mirror?
Like I said, I think he’s testing Harry here and then once Harry has “passed” Dumbledore is more than willing to let Harry have a moment to himself before it’s time to pull him back to reality.
What do you think you’d see if you looked into the mirror?
Myself holding a pair of socks, of course!
Lol. No. But it’s a deeply personal question, of course. But for me, it’d be a mix of Harry and Ron’s. Being loved and being at the top of whatever I was doing. I am overly ambitious and rather cutthroat but also a sentimental sap who needs approval.
A few misc. notes.
Mirrors as symbolism. This is one that’s rather overt and doesn’t need a lot of hashing. It’s reflection, it’s spiritual and sometimes physical reflection. You cannot hide from a mirror. It literally shows the truth, not some perceived version of yourself or that which you wish were true. It’s why Rumple covers all his mirrors up (yeah, yeah, Regina is spying but it’s obviously way less literal too). He cannot stand to see the truth; his ugliness, the outward manifestation of the darkness in his soul and heart.
There is also a lot to be said about mirrors as gateways to another place, another reality. Alice and the looking glass for instance. Or in Stargate SG-1, you have the Quantum mirror that lets you switch realities (episode “There But for the Grace of God). Star Trek is most famous for this with “Mirror Mirror” in which several members of the Enterprise travel through an alt. version and met their less than desirable selves; so famous in fact that many of the ST spinoffs (DS9 and Enterprise revisited). Crossing through a mirror isn’t just about another place, but one where everything is topsy turvy. Spock has a beard and is evil. Jack O’Neill is a Brigadier General and Sam Carter is a civilian Doctor and the earth is losing the war against the Gou’ald. Kira Nerys is a leather clad bisexual…in other words, the world is somehow “reversed” in a mirror world.
I think, for Harry, this idea isn’t a literal place he can get to, but it goes back to that nostalgia. A place he wishes he could get to but never can. He cannot cross through the mirror into this other world where he has a full family. But he can find that family in this reality, in the Weasleys, in Hermione, in Dumbledore, in Hagrid and in Hogwarts.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"“He had a powerful kind of ache inside him, half joy, half terrible sadness.”
–SS, p. 209
This sums up my experience reading this chapter. I see RG beat me to it in quoting it. It’s wonderful that literature can bring so many emotions in you. It has heart and makes you think and feel things deeply.
I love the way the Weasley family, despite not being all together for the holiday, all pull together to enjoy their time as family. It makes you want to be a Weasley and it’s no shock that Harry does, too. This chapter isn’t full of action but it’s one of the most poignant and touching of the entire series. I just want to bundle Ron and Harry both up and hug them. Harry, naturally. We know what he has to go through and the heartbreak of being an orphan. But Ron, too, for being overshadowed in his family. His mirrored reflection is happy and lighthearted but the reasoning behind it is deep. But then everyone’s would be if they looked into the mirror.
Family is essential for Harry. He longs for something that most take for granted. It’s no shock really then that in the epilogue we find he married Ginny and has three kids. He has what he fought all those years for. A family. (It’s also no shock that Ron never had as many children as his parents had, based on his Mirror of Erised reflection.)
Do you think that Dumbledore is lying about what he sees in the mirror, or is he able to control his desires so much that he can manipulate what he sees?
Yes, I think he’s lying. Dumbledore might be the most powerful wizard in Britain or the even the World but he’s not perfect. He’s not a God. He’s human and has weaknesses and flaws like everyone else. A man of his age and power doesn’t come by it without living a long, hard life with mistakes along the way. I think admitting to any of his desires or deepest wishes would be too heavy a burden for an eleven year old boy to be witness to. Harry is not ready for even a fraction of it, yet.
I can see though, where Macy is coming from. Has he somehow magically, or through means of self-discipline manipulated himself so he just sees his reflection? He is a powerful enough wizard that if any could do it, he would find a way. But I don’t think he’d actually do it. I think he still sees his desires in the mirror, based on the weaknesses and regrets we will see later in the series.
Why didn’t Dumbledore reveal himself earlier, if he had known Harry (and Ron) had been visiting the mirror?
Dumbledore tends to like people to come to their own conclusions and understandings. We know he’s a master manipulator, but he also doesn’t tell you outright. The cryptic contents of his Will being one example. He wants people to learn and grow, even though it would be easier just to tell the information outright. In the education field, there is a philosophy that the teacher isn’t someone who regurgitates facts. A teacher is a facilitator who allows the student to come to their understanding in an organic way. That is when true learning occurs. Dumbledore is a classic facilitator. He allowed Harry to stay and study the mirror instead of telling him straight away. He then goes on to ask questions in a way that helps lead to the final answer. He guides Harry’s learning, doesn’t demand or tell.
What do you think you’d see if you looked into the mirror?
I knew you were going to ask this question. Like Harry, a good part of my family is gone. I lost my brother when I was a teen and then my parents have both passed away, and my grandparents were all much older (they’d be all well over 100 years old if alive today). So I imagine I would see my family once again. I admit, this chapter is not easy to get through without tears coming out. And reading the interview of Rowling talking about her mother is spot on. You’d always just be asking for a few minutes more.
Knitting Reference #2
And because I am cataloging all the knitting references, this chapter has a big one. Molly and her famous Weasley sweaters.
“I think I know who that one’s from,” said Ron, turning a bit pink and pointing to a very large lumpy parcel. “My mom. I told her you didn’t expect any presents and–oh, no,” he groaned, “she’s made you a Weasley sweater.”
Harry had torn open the parcel to find a thick, hand-knitted sweater in emerald green and a large box of homemade fudge.
“Every year she makes us a sweater,” said Ron, unwrapping his own, “and mine’s always maroon.”
“That’s really nice of her,” said Harry, trying the fudge, which was very tasty.
–SS, pp. 200-201
Keeper of Rumplestiltskin's and Neal's spears and war paint and crystal ball.
It’s interesting that a few of us can’t pinpoint exactly what we’d see in the Mirror. I’m curious; is it because we truly don’t know or is it because we’re afraid to voice the answer? For example, if Ron knew what the Mirror was would he go stand in front of it? Does he know deep down inside what he really desires–to be better than this brothers?
I often wonder if he spent a lot of time standing before the mirror, just as Harry did, and he figured out how to shield his heart from it so that he couldn’t be hurt anymore.
I think Dumbledore spends a lot of time in front of that mirror, Harry or no Harry. I think he’s learned how not to “fall into” it, as it were, but he is still drawn to it and what it shows, whatever that may be. I think being able to shield your heart is a very interesting idea but I don’t know if that’s possible unless you really were the happiest man on earth. Perhaps it’s not shielding per se, but rather becoming numb to it.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"It’s interesting that a few of us can’t pinpoint exactly what we’d see in the Mirror. I’m curious; is it because we truly don’t know or is it because we’re afraid to voice the answer?
I often wonder if he spent a lot of time standing before the mirror, just as Harry did, and he figured out how to shield his heart from it so that he couldn’t be hurt anymore.
I think Dumbledore spends a lot of time in front of that mirror, Harry or no Harry. I think he’s learned how not to “fall into” it, as it were, but he is still drawn to it and what it shows, whatever that may be. I think being able to shield your heart is a very interesting idea but I don’t know if that’s possible unless you really were the happiest man on earth. Perhaps it’s not shielding per se, but rather becoming numb to it.
I think we all *think* we know what we’d see, but it may not be what we’d actually see. Most of us think we’d see just ourselves, happy with our friends and family. But I know that there is a good chance that that’s not what I’d see. Not that I’m not happy in my life, or my job or my husband, but it’s a deep dark desire sort of thing. I fully admit to having those outside of what I currently have, and it doesn’t make what I have any less than what I may truly deeply desire.
My biggest question with Dumbledore is that by this book’s end (and without going into specifics), we know he can manipulate what the mirror reflects. So if he has that ability, could or would he, do it for his own benefit, to save himself some pain of past regrets? Or would he decide to NOT change it, as a reminder of what he used to be, to ensure he doesn’t make the same mistakes? I’m really interested to delve into Dumbledore’s motivations throughout the series, just for these 2 questions.
As my bestie and I discussed earlier: Is he merely taking actions to fulfill a prophecy, or is he trying to right the wrongs of his past?
Keeper of the Cheshire Cat’s smile, Baelfire’s sword, Snow’s backpack, Robin Hood’s bow, Ariel’s purse, Ariel’s smile, Henry’s heart, Belle’s shoe collection
Here’s a moment from this chapter that’s funnier if you’ve already read the entire book before:
“The lake froze solid and the Weasley twins were punished for bewitching several snowballs so that they followed Quirrell around, bouncing off the back of his turban.”
What makes this even more funny is knowing that Fred and George were unknowingly throwing snowballs at Voldemort’s face.
And, of course, a certain red-headed witch is on the horizon. What unites these two families is Harry and moreover the affection they have for him.
The Mirror of Erised is so *fascinating* because those people–James, Lily and the whole family–aren’t really there. They aren’t on the other side of the mirror. The family Harry sees is a projection of his desires. And this is what makes Harry and his experiences with the Weasleys even more poignant. Harry doesn’t visualize family as what he knows–the Dursleys. He visualizes family in the way he sees the Weasleys–a large group of people who all support and love one another and are there for each other no matter what. His reference point for what family is supposed to look like is the Weasley clan and he “reflects” that into the mirror.
I’d like to point out one more thing about the defining ginger-haired Weasley trait. As he gazes in the Mirror of Erised, the thing Harry notices about his mother, Lily, is her red hair and his eyes. Red hair is a recessive trait. For Harry, who has black hair, and Ginny Weasley, who is redheaded, to have had a redheaded little girl named Lily Luna Potter, it means that their daughter had to inherit her red hair not only from her mother but also from her paternal grandmother, her namesake, Lily Evans Potter. One of the reasons I think Harry is subliminally drawn to Ginny has to do with her reminding him of his mother. The other thing is that Ginny’s family becomes Harry’s de facto family. They both have the same values and having a family is high on both of their lists of priority.
runaroundmacy wrote:
Do you think that Dumbledore is lying about what he sees in the mirror, or is he able to control his desires so much that he can manipulate what he sees?
I think he absolutely lied. It’s a cute lie, but a lie nonetheless. It doesn’t matter how much time passes, Dumbledore will always see himself as the Master of the Deathly Hallows
Actually, no, what Dumbledore sees in the mirror was exactly what Harry sees in the mirror: his family. According to Rowling, Albus Dumbledore sees “his family alive, whole and happy – Ariana, Percival and Kendra all returned to him, and Aberforth reconciled to him.” Source
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
I thought long and hard about the mirror question and honestly just made myself sad T_T But if I looked into the mirror I’d probably just see my family safe, secure and happy. That’s honestly it, which is saddening. Ask me about 7 years ago and i’d have a lot more colorful things to say but that’s probably all I’d see now…. hmm.
According to the Harry Potter wikia when asked what she’d see in the mirror JK said she’d herself as she is but also:
“there’d be room over [her] shoulder to see a scientist inventing a cigarette that would be healthy” and “a particular journalist being boiled in oil.“
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"I could have the giant duck as my steed!" --Daniel Radcliffe
Keeper Of Tamara's Taser , Jafar's Staff, Kitsis’s Glasses , Ariel’s Tail, Dopey's Hat , Peter Pan’s Shadow, Outfit, & Pied Cloak,Red Queen's Castle, White Rabbit's Power To World Hop, Zelena's BroomStick, & ALL MAGIC
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