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@BeastWhisperer wrote:
As CrownedWithLaurels noted Emma was commiting a very skilled and practiced felony when Neal met her. Neal was the one who suggested that they go straight and settle down in a real home. The watch money was meant to give them a start and new identities. Neal was trying to change his lifestyle for Emma before August popped up with his typewriter box o’ mysteries and started talking about Emma’s destiny.
When August and Neal met in Canada and Neal gave him the car and money for Emma, it always sounded to me like August was forbidding Neal from being with Emma. When Neal says he wants to talk to August about Emma, August responds, “I hope you’re not trying to reach out.” After telling Neal that Emma got eleven months in a minimum security prison in Phoenix, August quickly adds, “and, no, I’m not going to tell you which one.” (sounds like Neal has been bugging him for info) Then August immediately adds, “She’ll get out of there, and she’ll be fine. You keep your promise and steer clear, and she can have a good life.”
It sounds like August’s plan is to scare Emma straight and use her heartbreak to give her a reason to avod thieves in future. It’s not like he sent her to prison until she turned 28 to keep her safe inside the system.
Neal’s lines in this scene include talking about how he should be the one in prison, questioning how August’s prison plan is good, giving the car and all the money so that by helping her he can feel like he is with her, and of course telling August, “If I can’t be there for her, then you’ve got to promise me that you will be.” Not to mention asking to be notified if Emma breaks the curse and is finally free. That all reinforces the fact that August has told Neal he can’t be with Emma and made him promise to stay away.
Early in the scene Neal admits that he’s been trying unsuccessfully to lose himself since his last meeting with August and that he hopes that knowing Emma’s okay will allow him to move on. It sounds like that is something that August is encouraging so that Neal doesn’t break his promise. We don’t know yet how any of this might fit with Tamara, but it could be as simple as Neal believing that August only writing “Broken” on a postcard indicated that Emma had moved on and might not even be available after fulfilling her destiny.
I’m gonna stop here because this is taking forever to type on a mobile device.
Hi BeastWhisperer! First of all, I must say that you’re totally awesome for have typing all of these information through your mobile device!!!!! I could hardly do that 😀 😉
Back to Emma and Neal, i know that you and CrownedWithLaurels are very right.. Let’s just say that i reacted literally like Emma did, “You left me and let me go to prison because Pinocchio told you to?” !!!!! Was hard to swallow it down that Neal actually just let go of Emma because of her’s destiny, and he will be simply on the way for her.
[adrotate group="5"]@BeastWhisperer wrote:
When August and Neal met in Canada and Neal gave him the car and money for Emma, it always sounded to me like August was forbidding Neal from being with Emma. When Neal says he wants to talk to August about Emma, August responds, “I hope you’re not trying to reach out.” After telling Neal that Emma got eleven months in a minimum security prison in Phoenix, August quickly adds, “and, no, I’m not going to tell you which one.” (sounds like Neal has been bugging him for info) Then August immediately adds, “She’ll get out of there, and she’ll be fine. You keep your promise and steer clear, and she can have a good life.”
Yes, I wish they would make have or make it clear in the future that apparently Emma had to do face her destiny without Neal according to the writers because they stated it after “Tallahassee” had aired.
At first, I didn’t want to believe them like how they said that Rumple had no memory of his past self until Emma said her name in the pilot, but you make several great points, BeastWhisperer, like how if Neal was still with Emma, I don’t know if he could get her to break the Curse. He could take her to Storybrooke on a whim and try to get her to believe that everything he said was true, but she’d probably would have thought he was crazy. Plus, now we know that it had to be Henry all along to help bring her there and break the Curse, and in order for that to happen, the writers and maybe some other forces that we don’t know about had to come up with a way for Emma to give up Henry so that they could both fulfill their roles in breaking the Curse.
Neal’s lines in this scene include talking about how he should be the one in prison, questioning how August’s prison plan is good, giving the car and all the money so that by helping her he can feel like he is with her, and of course telling August, “If I can’t be there for her, then you’ve got to promise me that you will be.” Not to mention asking to be notified if Emma breaks the curse and is finally free. That all reinforces the fact that August has told Neal he can’t be with Emma and made him promise to stay away.
Exactly. While I blame Neal for deciding what was best for Emma on her own instead of letting her decide her own fate, not that she would have believed him, but he definitely when about protecting her in the worst possible way, I blame August more because he told Neal he would look out for Emma, but he ran away instead.
Early in the scene Neal admits that he’s been trying unsuccessfully to lose himself since his last meeting with August and that he hopes that knowing Emma’s okay will allow him to move on. It sounds like that is something that August is encouraging so that Neal doesn’t break his promise. We don’t know yet how any of this might fit with Tamara, but it could be as simple as Neal believing that August only writing “Broken” on a postcard indicated that Emma had moved on and might not even be available after fulfilling her destiny.
At first after “Tallahassee”, I thought that the scene of him getting the postcard in “Broken” was to show that he had been waiting for the postcard because it meant that he and Emma could get back together again, but now after “Manhattan”, I see that while he still loves Emma, he figured that her happy ending didn’t include him anymore and that he just wanted to know that she had reunited with her family. I can’t really blame him because he probably figured that after sending her to prison that she wouldn’t want anything more to do with him even if he did explain the circumstances. Plus, he’s so use to people that he loved leaving him that he probably convinced himself that maybe he’s just meant to be alone.
Hi! I’m new to the forum! After Manhattan aired, I just couldn’t help getting started on all the spoiler boards and forums — it’s just too good! I’ve been impressed with some of the intelligent discussions here and I really like what’s going on. Once seems like one massive puzzle game to watch each week!
Anyway, I’ve been thinking about the Emma/Neal thing, and here are my thoughts, although granted, they were a lot more detailed before I actually started typing. haha.
In Manhattan, Neal tells her, “I was just trying to get you home…” In the season opener, Henry asks “Why is everyone still here?” Neal, like everyone else, may have thought that when the curse was broken, that everyone would return to FTL, without realizing that Rumple’s endgame on the curse was actually to find him. I think this makes Bae/Neal’s decision to walk away a bit more heroic and self-sacrificing. He could have been selfish and clung to her, but there’s no way she could have broken the curse WITH Neal at her side… Think about it… He goes back to Storybrooke with her, and catches sight of Mr. Gold — whether Gold recognized him or not, Bae/Neal would have run. This might also come back to some intervention on the part of August, because if he knew about Bae, then he knew Rumple’s ultimate goal, and would have made sure Neal stayed away without telling Neal the whole story. If Neal had known breaking the curse was to find him, he WOULD have taken Emma and run. (And if Neal actually knew Rump’s goal was to find him and he still let Emma go, then that’s even worse because it means sacrificing her would lead to the one thing he feared most, seeing his father again.)
I’ve seen a couple of comments on his expression when he receives the post card — how he didn’t seem to be happy, presumably because he’s now “moved on.” Not necessarily. He could have been thinking “she’s gone now” which would also explain the flicker of a smile when she runs into him in Manhattan. That whole, “What are you doing here?” could have been him assuming that she hadn’t broken the curse after all, until she puts it together and flips out on him.
@hcadia wrote:
Hi BeastWhisperer! First of all, I must say that you’re totally awesome for have typing all of these information through your mobile device!!!!! I could hardly do that 😀 😉
Back to Emma and Neal, i know that you and CrownedWithLaurels are very right.. Let’s just say that i reacted literally like Emma did, “You left me and let me go to prison because Pinocchio told you to?” !!!!! Was hard to swallow it down that Neal actually just let go of Emma because of her’s destiny, and he will be simply on the way for her.
Hehe. When I’m on a mobile device I normally try to avoid much typing, but it’s hard when there’s a cool conversation going on.
I know what you mean about reacting like Emma. Even as a Swanfire fan who has watched Tallahassee more times than I can count, I still had to go back and rewatch it after Manhattan to confirm Neal’s motivations and reactions. It would be a very normal human reaction even if Neal had let go because he didn’t want to see Rumple. (Rewatching the scene where Bae begs Rumple not to murder the cart driver or when he discovers the murder of their maid… those kill me.)
I’d kinda love to see a conversation between him and Henry about having a parental figure who has been touched by dark magic. Henry has seen Regina attack David for instance, though she stopped when Henry asked. Henry was also held captive by her temporarily. Done right, I wonder if they could help eachother heal those relationships. There’s just so many things they can do with this storyline…
Emma said she was 18 when she had Henry. However, she also said it was a juvie record when she was in jail so she had to have been under the age of 18 when she was arrested. Therefore, she was 17 when she had sex with Neal. Oregon doesn’t use the phrase statutory rape. The age of consent is 18. But according to Oregon law, having sex with a person under the age of 18 is a misdemeanor if it’s consensual (which it obviously was). They don’t consider it rape. And also take into the account the age difference between the two people.
I think when she was sentenced she was 17 years old. Sometime in the first 9 months of her sentence she turned 18. Emma was in jail 2 months when she found out she pregnant. She probably conceived Henry shortly before she got arrested. So sometime within those 9 months she turned 18.
@Rapunzel_is_a_Ginger wrote:
In Manhattan, Neal tells her, “I was just trying to get you home…” In the season opener, Henry asks “Why is everyone still here?” Neal, like everyone else, may have thought that when the curse was broken, that everyone would return to FTL, without realizing that Rumple’s endgame on the curse was actually to find him. I think this makes Bae/Neal’s decision to walk away a bit more heroic and self-sacrificing. He could have been selfish and clung to her, but there’s no way she could have broken the curse WITH Neal at her side… Think about it… He goes back to Storybrooke with her, and catches sight of Mr. Gold — whether Gold recognized him or not, Bae/Neal would have run. This might also come back to some intervention on the part of August, because if he knew about Bae, then he knew Rumple’s ultimate goal, and would have made sure Neal stayed away without telling Neal the whole story. If Neal had known breaking the curse was to find him, he WOULD have taken Emma and run. (And if Neal actually knew Rump’s goal was to find him and he still let Emma go, then that’s even worse because it means sacrificing her would lead to the one thing he feared most, seeing his father again.)
I’ve seen a couple of comments on his expression when he receives the post card — how he didn’t seem to be happy, presumably because he’s now “moved on.” Not necessarily. He could have been thinking “she’s gone now” which would also explain the flicker of a smile when she runs into him in Manhattan. That whole, “What are you doing here?” could have been him assuming that she hadn’t broken the curse after all, until she puts it together and flips out on him.
Personally I think that when Neal said he was just trying to get her home he meant re-uniting her with her parents.
The whole Emma/Neal plot in Tallahassee ended by pointing them towards getting a home(it’s even the last thing Emma says as Neal walks away from her to go fence the watches)…but that night Neal found out that he was the reason that Emma had been ripped from her home. Can you imagine the guilt and pain of finding out that all the pain and misery that the person you loved most in the world was because of you? He did the right thing by leaving…setting her on the course that would eventually reunite her with her family…he was giving her the one thing she had wanted all her life…her family and a home…and he sacrificed his own happiness to do that. The problem is that once again he becomes responsible for causing her pain…he can’t win for losing.
As for his expression when he received the postcard…I’ve always saw that as fear…he swallows hard when he first sees it. I think that deep down he knew that once Emma broke the curse there was the possibility that his father might find him but he had to take that chance because he had promised Emma a home (perhaps it was not the one she thought would be but it was the one she was meant to have in SB with her parents). And this kind of reveals Bae’s self-sacrificing personality…he’s always been willing to give up everything to do what was right or save someone (like he did when he was willing to give up his own home and everything he knew to save Rumple).
I wonder if, in order to return to Enchanted Forest, Henry must be sacrificed. In order to enact the curse, Regina has to sacrifice the heart of the thing you loved most. It makes sense that in order to make the return trip, the thing you love most needs to be sacrificed again and Henry is the only one that connects all the major players.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of Felix@PriceofMagic wrote:
I wonder if, in order to return to Enchanted Forest, Henry must be sacrificed. In order to enact the curse, Regina has to sacrifice the heart of the thing you loved most. It makes sense that in order to make the return trip, the thing you love most needs to be sacrificed again and Henry is the only one that connects all the major players.
Hmm… But Regina loves her mother very much as well, so she could just sacrifice the heart of Cora instead of Henry, if this is the way to enact the curse right? Well, if Regina could only find where Cora has hidden her heart of course.
I’m cofussed about all Emma’s age when she gave birth to Henry discussion. I mean, in the pilot, in her 28th birthday, Henry was 10 already, wasn’t he? if so, then it is impossible for her to be 18 when he was born? :S :S
(Besides, does it really matter? What would be the difference in regards of the storytelling?)Anyway, I do think Neal&Emma loved each other. I even think they still love each other despite the circunstances. If they will be together or not again is another issue -because live is more complicated than just love- but at the time Henry was conceived yes, they were in love.
@Andreth Stark wrote:
I’m cofussed about all Emma’s age when she gave birth to Henry discussion. I mean, in the pilot, in her 28th birthday, Henry was 10 already, wasn’t he? if so, then it is impossible for her to be 18 when he was born? :S :S.
I’ve brought this point up before elsewhere, and the only solution I’ve found is that Emma had Henry on her 18th birthday. When Henry showed up on Emma’s 28th birthday, it was also his birthday and he turned 10 that day. Or he was just rounding up because maybe he was just a few months shy of 10 (like 9 years and 10 months).
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
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