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There are so many things going through my head right now…but I think that this has to be a set up
For one….how weird is it that at the beginning of the season A&E were sure to tell us that a death would be final. Sounds like a set up to me, so that everyone would buy that Neal is really dad just for someone else to die later.
They didn’t even hype that their would be a death in the promo for this episode….
Neal was a part of the dark one….and while I am sure that Rumple and Neal are two separate people, it doesn’t mean that the darkness couldn’t have spread…
What was with the necklace….there is definitely more to it….
Why bother with all the talk about True Love and then never go anywhere with it….Emma didn’t even kiss him goodbye….and that feels like a set up too.
I don’t know, maybe it is just because I am so angry about how all of this was handled and not given the build up that it deserved….but I still think that there is a fair chance that Neal will be back
[adrotate group="5"]for a death episode ti was otn suitably epic. episodes should have a certain magnitude to them, but until neal’s death, the episode did not seem to bring any new revelation. i dont know am i alone in this situation?
Magic always comes with a price, so I pay with visa.
No, you are most definitely not alone in this. That’s the reason why I’m so upset. His death didn’t belong in this episode, because it was just a tack on to it. The death felt very rushed, and Hook was already acting like Neal was dead before he’d even died. I feel as though they ended Bae as if he could have never existed at all, when that isn’t true. There are four plot making characters in his show:
Rumpelstiltskin: The man who created the curse, to save the child he abandoned.
Regina: The woman who cast the curse to avenge her lover.
Baelfire/Neal Cassidy: The child who was the cause for the curse. Who travelled through dimensions to save himself, to save his family, and escape making his father’s mistake.
Emma: the child destined to break the curse, and free a town of people from enslavement.
Even if the show didn’t promote Nealfire as much, his death was still insultingly played down, and ignored any of the significance he had. It’s been revealed that MRJ didn’t have other arrangements, and it was just plot that killed him. So, now I feel that there was no excuse to give Neal a better goodbye. I guess that the only way they can fix this now is through the impact of his death on everyone else.
Rumpel didn’t die because in 1st season, his predecessor said, no matter what he did he could not die. That’s why Rumple’s death was so confusing in the first place because the writers came up with this parameter and there was no body. The other dark one tried committing suicide numerous times and failed until Rumple took the mantle of the dark one by stabbing him with the Dagger. Other than that the only known way to have killed him was dream shade. That wasn’t of the dark one’s natural habitat. If the other Dark One could’ve just gotten the dagger and stabbed himself without getting a replacement. I think he would’ve done it. There probably has to be a replacement for that death to have worked, Rumple wouldn’t have wanted Pan to take over the Dark One role. I think Rumple just figured he’d be asleep in the vault forever. I think you should just let go of Neal. He is dead and there were no hints given saying he shouldn’t die. He also lived for centuries so its time. Daniel and Regina were also true love but Daniel died and Regina is about to find new true love. Proving people could have multiple true loves and move. Plus Emma already moved on, she was fell in love with Walsh and was happy. Its time she moved on. This what people should do, not cling to the past but move on. This is why its a good thing Emma didn’t kiss Neal, because it shows Emma has moved on and evolved without Neal. The creators made it very clear magic cannot bring back the dead. THERE ARE REASONS WHY THOSE LAWS ARE IN PLACE. If Neal is dead he is not meant to come back. DEAD IS DEAD. But like you said there are going to be flashbacks.
They’ve broken their own rules plenty of times. And keep in mind, Emma had not moved on from Neal. She said she never did even when she thought he had left her during the events of Tallahassee. The only different denominator in her being able to have a semi-successful relationship with Walsh was keeping Henry. That is what made her open to it. Not that she had moved on from Neal. Because all those memories were fake. According to Emma’s own words, as soon as she saw him again in Manhattan, she knew she never moved on and never stopped loving him. And yes she was in a relationship with Walsh, but she was unsure about it all. Even when he proposed. We know Emma had one night stands and such as she said back in S1. Henry was the differentiating factor in her being able to have a longer relationship, not Neal. And besides. He was a monkey. Zelena knew what they needed to do to keep Emma on Walsh.
Keeper Nealfire's/Bae's scarf, Henry and Neal's bribery ice cream sundae, Baelfire's sword, the coconut map, and more.
I don think it matters that Walsh was a monkey or that she had false memories. To her at the time, it was real. Emma being able to have an 8 month relationship with love and commitment was a huge milestone for her. She was able to take the steps and move on enough love another being. Her intimacy and commitment issues developed far.
Once you realize all of that wasn’t what it seemed doesn’t erase all the progress she made. It doesn’t matter what the context was her year with Henry away from StoryBrooke she continued to grow and develop as a person. She’s not the same person she was a year ago. She’s even more powerful now because she has ownership of the development she gained from her year in New York and the development she gained in Storybrooke. Just because her experience was dependent on illusion doesn’t mean she didn’t make that mental progression. She didn’t take a love potion, she fell in love with a jerk who didn’t say who he said he was. He wasn’t genuine but she was. So that’s what matters.
People have been rooting for her to not have moved on from Neal but I find that an unhealthy message. There’s true love at the time but people love, lost, gets their heart broken. But there’s a whole big world out there, other loves, other true loves and not all true love works out but its best to move on because life and time are not stationary. You can never go back to the past. Hook even proved that Emma’s heart was aching because of Walsh. There’s room in her to grow and move on past old flames she needs to take advantage of that.
In multiple recent articles, Adam and Eddy state her walls are growing higher because of Neal’s death. That isn’t unhealthy. That’s a natural response to a loved-one dying. It’s not unhealthy if you both love each other, as Emma stated she never stopped loving him. It would be unhealthy for sure if it was unrequited, Neal had married Tamara, the relationship was abusive, etc. But say they had reconciled and moved into a relationship again. Reconciliation and restoration of a past good relationship isn’t unhealthy just because there was a relationship in the past. It takes more than just history for a relationship or a continued love for someone to be unhealthy. Emma couldn’t help she still loved him. And there is nothing wrong with that. It isn’t unhealthy. It just is what it is.
Keeper Nealfire's/Bae's scarf, Henry and Neal's bribery ice cream sundae, Baelfire's sword, the coconut map, and more.
I think TVLine and K&H are using language very carefully. There is a purposeful mystery feel about this. It reminds me of the “Who is Dr. Whale” mystery. Dr. Frankenstein had already been guessed (by thegoldenkey) but a comment was made that no one had correctly guessed Dr. Whale’s fairy tale character. Someone had guessed the identity of Whale but technically that comment was true because Whale’s identity was not a fairy tale character.
Dead is Dead but we have seen over and over on this show how people we thought were dead were not dead. When that is combined with carefully worded press releases and answers it does leave room for careful language analysis.
The following are a series of Statements made by K&H. The Examples are from the show and serve as an example of how the statement can be technically true but the reality looks very different.
Statement: The “character” dies for real – his or her portrayer, make no mistake, will leave the show.
Statement: The death is real and the “character” has really died.
example: August Booth died for real. The actor who portrayed him no longer portrays him, but Pinocchio lives on.
Pinocchio was able to live on because there was more to August Booth than met the eye. He was a hybrid of a sort…a puppet come to life. The man was able to die…the real form of Pinocchio was able to live.
Just like Pinocchio, who had the fake name of an author, “August Booth”, Baelfire had the fake name of an author and person Jack Kerouac based many characters from, “Neal Cassidy”. We have not seen Baelfire’s story of what happened to him all those years. We have no idea if he is a hybrid. And just like August Booth, the wording of K&H leave the door open for a similar outcome of Baelfire being reverted to his “true” self, or converted into a “new” self, whatever that might be.
The real Neal Cassady was a member of the Merry Pranksters. Jack Kerouac faked his own suicide one time, went to Mexico for a while. Dylan Schmid’s picture is on a poster in Tallahassee with a cell phone ad for Mexico. Also, Neal’s death occurred the day before April Fool’s Day. In real life, Neal Cassady got married on April Fool’s Day. K&H and MJR have both used the interesting wording of the “timing” of this event.
Statement: There are “tragic” events
Example – Rumple and Regina are arguing about Rumple abducting Catherine. Regina is mad because she thought Rumple was going to kill her. Rumple parses word meaning with Regina…you said something tragic should happen…abduction is “tragic.”
Statement: We felt like in the character’s “evolution” – a loose definition of evolution is change to another more complex state of being.
Statement: And of course, to bring someone back from the dead (Rumple), as we say, magic has a price – so you see it extracted.
Example – This statement indicates that Rumple was brought back from the “dead” if Rumple can be “brought back”, so can Neal.
I don’t think Baelfire is gone. I don’t think we will see a Pinocchio story with young Baelfire coming back instead of Neal.
I think there is a “hybrid” story that is in Baelfire’s past. His name Baelfire was chosen for a reason.
His death occurred in an episode with a man trapped as fire…the talking candlestick. Fake name “Neal Cassidy” “dies” with a Delta symbol on his hand – the Fire symbol and triangulated dots of light in his eyes that resemble the symbol for radiation.
There is constant Hero talk. In Emma’s original lie to Henry she says that his father was a “FIREman” who “SAVED” people…a HERO.
We have seen multiple Marvel Comic SuperHero Fantastic Four comic books.
One of the fantastic four is a FIRE superhero.
When Emma’s first lights the candle she talks about a Banner year and in a later episode Regina mentions a Banner year. Bruce Banner was the Hulk.
We have seen Emma in Clark Kent type glasses when she is with Neal Cassidy (assumed name) in the episode Tallahassee.
We have Neal Cassidy (assumed name) living in Manhattan. There is a superhero named Dr. Manhattan who becomes a superhero when he is incinerated retrieving his girlfriends watch. He is a member of the Watchmen and Baelfire said he would be “watching over them” from somewhere.
MJR said he was not fired and he did not quit. He said what happened was part of a BOLD story line.
MJR and K&H have said keep watching. It is confirmed that MJR will be seen in flashbacks.
Three people have been marked by a symbol on their hands, Regina (who lived), Philip (who lived) and Baelfire.
The Delta triangle on Neal’s hand is literally a symbol that comes from the shape of Baelfire’s name – the triangular shape of a bonfire.
A statement was made that you have to fight fire with fire. (can’t remember if it was Once or Wonder).
The thing to contain Zelena was fire from the candlestick.
I think Neal’s body is dead and that the actor playing him will not play a future Neal character. I do not however think Baelfire is dead because I think he is some sort of hybrid and that just like August Booth will be able to live on in his true self. That to me leaves the door open for a very interesting complex happy ending.
(I also don’t think Cora is dead. Pan’s magic cuffs didn’t work on him because it was his own magic. Cora was “killed” with the magic candle which was her own magic. I think she faked her death like in Cricket Game…where a body disguised to look like Archie was buried. I think Cora is very much alive and is involved in everything Zelena…and is trying to fulfill her words to “dead” Eva….”I will destroy your legacy”. (How does Regina fit in? I think Regina is not Cora’s daughter but rather Eva’s daughter. I think Rumple procured Regina to replace Zelena and I think the two share a father, King Xavier. )
I think Zelena might be Dorothy.
Twitter - @Milkglass123
@Nealfanforever. That’s alot of interesting theories. I think Neal is a regular human that was born from 2 regular people at the time. Good point with August & Rumple’s death but they’re both not human so death doesn’t mean the same thing to them as it would to a human. So Neal being a regular human, dead would just mean dead.
I think we’ve had enough death fake outs from loop holes but at least those loopholes were presented at the start of their existence. Both premises of their mortality were presented in season1. Pinocchio being an inanimate object brought to life and the dark one before Rumple said he couldn’t die unless someone else took their place by stabbing them with the dagger. But real human deaths need to remain dead because there’s a reason why the laws of magic are in place. In that case, Cora needs to stay dead. There’s no way she knew she was going to die by taking Rumple’s position in death and Cora also felt true love for her daughter the the very first time in her final moments. If she just faked her death it would negate that beautiful moment we shared watching that scene.
If Neal came back it would just cheapen the quality of the show. The writers didn’t leave any breadcrumbs to let us think otherwise either. I think its time to look forward and see how the show could progress.
@CrownedwithLaurels: There’s some people who we will love forever and they will always have a place in our hearts. Especially exes, the people we had meaningful relationships with. I think especially if those exes stay friends they’ll always love each other forever. But that isn’t enough reason why people should be together life moves forward. Emma has been ready to move on and you should let her. She seems to be over the Neal and Emma train and wants to get on with her life. Sure there’s something about past flames that’s always going to hurt us but Emma has been letting those walls come down. She’s been healing without Neal that adds to her independence. Her wall have been coming down for Mary Margret, David, Henry, Walsh, Graham and even Hook. Enough for her to kiss Hook and flirt with him before the curse took sb away.People have multiple great loves. Neal would’ve been Emma’s first love but he’s certainly not her last love. Her last love is Walsh. Past seemingly good relationships are still failed relationships that didn’t last. Unrequited loves are part of life and its a chance we take if we want to love. Real love is when you love somebody no matter what, even if they don’t love you. But at least you know what you feel is real. If you feel a great love, it doesn’t work out, or if it isn’t for you. You’re ready to get over your past I think it should be encouraged to move on.
If Neal and Emma had a Snow & David type of relationship they would’ve found a way to survive the craziness that pulled them apart. Neal would’ve said “Emma and I will work it out together” “whatever it is we can get through it together” “I will help her” but Neal understandably just listened to August. I think any boyfriend would have but not that many would’ve pushed back and said “No, there is another way and I can fix this.” I think its because Neal wasn’t confident that he could. He was running around with Emma stealing and promoting an unhealthy lifestyle. He wasn’t helping her to do anything productive. When he had a chance to choose Emma after the curse was over, I understand he was scared but true love wins over fear. He should have jumped at the chance to finally see her again.
Although, Tamara turned out to be a secret agent for Pan before the secret was revealed Neal truly loved Tamara. That love was real to him. Before Tamara decided to give up the facade there was no indication they were in a abusive relationship. But the point is, Neal found love and somebody he wanted to commit his love to. That was moving on. He moved on from Emma it doesn’t matter to who he was able to do it.
I just always felt that Emma could have done alot better than the characters she encountered on the show. The only one I felt was a good match for her was Graham and they had to kill off graham to have us focus on her ex. Ever since Graham Emma just hasn’t met anyone good. Graham was able to take down her defenses, give her a sense of belonging and had amazing chemistry. He influenced her to do good. So I will always mourn Graham and you can mourn Neal. But Emma needs to move on and find someone as good as Graham. Someone who is 100% truthful, feels like he could share anything with Emma and feels like they could get through anything with Emma together. That was what was lacking in Neal and Emma’s relationship.
Regina is not Cora’s daughter but rather Eva’s daughter
PLOT TWIST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"I could have the giant duck as my steed!" --Daniel Radcliffe
Keeper Of Tamara's Taser , Jafar's Staff, Kitsis’s Glasses , Ariel’s Tail, Dopey's Hat , Peter Pan’s Shadow, Outfit, & Pied Cloak,Red Queen's Castle, White Rabbit's Power To World Hop, Zelena's BroomStick, & ALL MAGIC
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