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I love this conversation, and I agree with all points, Keb.
TheWatcher wrote: Did Milah deserve it? Maybe
Can you explain this further? I have a general idea of why but still.
She’s a mother who completely abandoned her son to run off and live her life wild and free. She left Bae in poverty at that! All so that SHE could be happy. That’s enough to be put In jail in our modern world. Was Rumple right to punish her? In my opinion, yes. Was he right to kill her? ….Perhaps? Hence the “maybe”. She deserved to be punished…. But killing her for it is a bit iffy for me.
[adrotate group="5"]"I could have the giant duck as my steed!" --Daniel Radcliffe
Keeper Of Tamara's Taser , Jafar's Staff, Kitsis’s Glasses , Ariel’s Tail, Dopey's Hat , Peter Pan’s Shadow, Outfit, & Pied Cloak,Red Queen's Castle, White Rabbit's Power To World Hop, Zelena's BroomStick, & ALL MAGICI understand the punishment thing. Milah is probably my least favorite ONCE character, and not because she broke Rumple’s heart. She left her child and I know sometimes sympathizers bring up that she was miserable and I get that. I do. But she handled it in the worst possible way. And then when Hook tells Bae in 222 that they thought about going back for Bae when he was older, I had a very visceral reaction. It strikes all kinds of nerves in me and while I do not think that her homicide was justified, I do think that Rumple was justified in his rage. But like Milah, he handled it in the worst possible way.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"His killing Milah is one of a few things Rumple’s done that crossed the moral line. It’s hard to watch because I adore him, feel for him, and want him to find his happy ending, but that murder (and the snail and the murder of Honora) were all unjustified, horrific, and make me think that Bobby’s right when he says that New Dark One is the most difficult (so far) of the roles that make up Rumple. New Dark One is scary–he’s got powers he barely comprehends, is still dealing directly with the people who hurt him most when he was powerless, and so he’s in full on vengeance mode, unable to acknowledge his continual fears because he believed that power would free him from cowardice. Yet he IS afraid–afraid of losing Bae (the snail), afraid of losing his power/being killed (Honora), and afraid of what he’s become–which is part of why he unleashed his wrath so completely on Milah. He’s punishing her for what he did–abandoning Bae–as much as what she did and said, as we’ve already noted. But it touches on his inherent cowardice, too: He’s afraid he’s unlovable. Even Bae was rejecting him after he became the Dark One. And I think it’s because his anger at himself and his fear is so heartbreaking, so real, and obviously so well portrayed by Bobby, that we’re willing to forgive him–so long as he becomes worthy of that forgiveness. (He hasn’t. Not yet. The swing scene shows that he’s still giving in to the same weaknesses that led to Milah’s murder, which means he hasn’t earned his redemption.) No matter how much you dislike Milah, you can’t excuse Rumple’s decision to kill her. And you don’t have to in order to understand his reasons or sympathize with him regardless. Loving Rumple is kind of frustrating, because every time you want to root for him, he goes and does something horrible and you want to shake some sense into him. Yet the potential is there–the good heart that Belle sees is so clearly there–and that gives us a reason to root for him. When he finds his good self, he’s going to have to answer for a lot of pain he’s caused (which is not to say he hasn’t paid for it, at least in part…his crueler actions have had direct consequences that have harmed him and the people he does care about).
well said, Keb. BUt it is going to take alot for me to say Rumple has redeemed himself. Rescuing his own flesh and blood or girlfriend is not going to do it for me. It’s a start but if he killed my family member, I would be unmoved by his saving his own family.
Keeper of Hook and Emma's smoldering first kiss, a certain Pirate's sauciness, the Evil Queen's snarkiness, Grumpy's gruffness and a drop of true love to make it all go down smooth.
well said, Keb. BUt it is going to take alot for me to say Rumple has redeemed himself. Rescuing his own flesh and blood or girlfriend is not going to do it for me. It’s a start but if he killed my family member, I would be unmoved by his saving his own family.
For me, personally, I think the first real big step (I would say he’s made tiny little ones so far) Rumple can take is true honest to heaven sacrifice. Like giving up his Dark One’s power for Henry in a battle vs PP (which is totally my headcanon!) Would it totally absolve his sins? Nope. But up until now he’s done small things that maybe benefited others, but also really benefited him. The difference in honest to heaven sacrifice is that he doesn’t gain anything by it. Sacrifice is selfless.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"obisgirl wrote: I love this conversation, and I agree with all points, Keb.
TheWatcher wrote: Did Milah deserve it? Maybe
Can you explain this further? I have a general idea of why but still.
She’s a mother who completely abandoned her son to run off and live her life wild and free. She left Bae in poverty at that! All so that SHE could be happy. That’s enough to be put In jail in our modern world. Was Rumple right to punish her? In my opinion, yes. Was he right to kill her? ….Perhaps? Hence the “maybe”. She deserved to be punished…. But killing her for it is a bit iffy for me.
Watcher, it was Rumple’s actions that plunged that family into poverty. He was unwilling to move to another town to start fresh. He also is the one the “criminally” abandoned his son. I don’t think it is illegal to leave your child with his/her loving parent, like Milah did. But it is illegal to abandon your kids completely/strangers as Rumple did. If Milah deserved to die, than so does Rumple in a far more painful manner.
I get not liking Milah, The writers haven’t tried at all to make her sympathetic. I can even understand wanting a character you dislike to die after all it is a tv show. I know I’ve do sometimes. But I don’t think Milah should be demonized.
Keeper of Hook and Emma's smoldering first kiss, a certain Pirate's sauciness, the Evil Queen's snarkiness, Grumpy's gruffness and a drop of true love to make it all go down smooth.
Watcher, it was Rumple’s actions that plunged that family into poverty. He was unwilling to move to another town to start fresh. He also is the one the “criminally” abandoned his son. I don’t think it is illegal to leave your child with his/her loving parent, like Milah did. But it is illegal to abandon your kids completely/strangers as Rumple did. If Milah deserved to die, than so does Rumple in a far more painful manner. I get not liking Milah, The writers haven’t tried at all to make her sympathetic. I can even understand wanting a character you dislike to die after all it is a tv show. I know I’ve do sometimes. But I don’t think Milah should be demonized.
I don’t think the actions of either party–Rumple or Milah–left the family destitute. They were not that well of to begin with. They were humble peasants from the start as we see in Manhattan. Rumple was always a spinner. And when we see him come home in The Crocodile, he is arriving home with wool for spinning. He continously worked as we see in Desperate Souls where he’s even training Bae to learn how to spin or taking the wool to trade at the market, even if it’s also to secret Bae away from the army. Milah didn’t want to leave because they were poor but because she felt “lashed” to the village coward:
Milah: This isn’t a life. Not for me. Why can’t we just leave?
Rumpelstiltskin: We’ve talked about that.
Milah: You don’t have to be the village coward. We could start again. Go somewhere no one knows us. See the whole world, beyond this village.
It is not illegal to leave your child with a loving parent but Milah didn’t think Rumple was that either. She thought Rumple should die instead of being a father–that Bae would need a strong name to be Rumple’s son because of how shameful it would be to be Rumple’s son. She has little regard for Rumple as man or a parent. Yet she was willing to leave her only child with him. If he was *that* horrible of a father and man, she could have taken him with her.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Once Rumple was branded a coward, his family became outcasts because of it. I agree they were never well-off, but if you look at Rumple’s clothes in the pre-Dark One curse, they become progressively more ragged. The town didn’t respect him and that had practical effects on the family – poverty.
I agree Milah should have picked up her son, told Rumple she was leaving and started a new life with Rumple in another town.
Keeper of Hook and Emma's smoldering first kiss, a certain Pirate's sauciness, the Evil Queen's snarkiness, Grumpy's gruffness and a drop of true love to make it all go down smooth.
It’s easy to forgive Rumple because Robert Caryle is so brilliant at his craft that when his eyes well up with tears my heart breaks a little…or a lot. It’s the actor for me on why I root for and support Rumple’s redemption. The writing is fantastic for him, but without Bobby’s talent, it would come off completely different.
The hardest murder for me to take is the mute maid. It was shocking and dark but we needed it to show the ruthlessness of this character. As RG said, Rumple was like loose canon in the beginning stages of his curse. He couldn’t control himself. Not an excuse my any means, but looking back at the evolution of his character you can glaringly see it. As for Milah, she didn’t deserve to die. You’d be hard pressed to find a die-hard Dearie who believed she deserved that. Does she deserve fandom’s hate like she gets? Absolutely, in my opinion. Not because of her leaving Rumple, but how she abandoned her child. I work with young children and see abandonment in some of my students and it’s heartbreaking. I might be a little more sensitive to the abandonment issues since I see it in my work. If she didn’t want to be a mother, fine, but the way she went about it was the worst way possible. If they try to retcon her character, it will take a lot for me to feel anything for her, and even then I sincerely doubt I’ll ever change my mind.
As for happy endings, does Rumple deserve a happy ending? No. Does Regina deserve a happy ending? No. But that doesn’t stop me from wanting to see redemption and happiness. If we only got what we deserved in life then the world would be a boring place. If characters on tv or literature only got what they deserved it would be a very boring story. Adam and Eddy said this show is about hope. I want to root for those that struggle. And in the end, it’s fiction, so if I want to support the villainous sorcerer and demonize the wife he murdered then it’s my prerogative.
Keeper of Rumplestiltskin's and Neal's spears and war paint and crystal ball.
For me, personally, I think the first real big step (I would say he’s made tiny little ones so far) Rumple can take is true honest to heaven sacrifice. Like giving up his Dark One’s power for Henry in a battle vs PP (which is totally my headcanon!) Would it totally absolve his sins? Nope. But up until now he’s done small things that maybe benefited others, but also really benefited him. The difference in honest to heaven sacrifice is that he doesn’t gain anything by it. Sacrifice is selfless.
I agree.
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