"I need you! I love you."

[Demileto]

@KFChimera wrote:

I do feel the portal scene came up a bit quick in the storytelling, as Neal’s story also involves more than his sacrifice to let Emma be the savior, but also his guilt about that choice, and his relationship with Tamara.

The portal scene surprised even the most rabid SwanFire shipper; NO ONE was expecting them to declare their love for each other this earlier. That said, both Neal and Emma have shown through simple gestures that even though they’ve been apart for 10 years they’ve never truly forgotten each other, so the portal scene wasn’t that big of a leap. It all comes down to them being in this extreme situation: she was this close to lose him, she’d much rather forget all the pain he’d caused and declare her love for him than regret forever that she didn’t do it when she had the chance, knowing she’d never have another.

@KFChimera wrote:

for now, I took his willingness to be with Tamara as proof of his hopelessness of a future with Emma. Of course, from a storytelling perspective, I wonder if that is a sign that his love was not true enough to have faith in Emma? Rumple kicked Belle out of the castle, and that after a partially effective TLK. Snow is willing to drink a potion to forget Charming and he is ready to marry Abigail unless he gets a sign from Snow.

It’s not that, it’s that Neal has self-worth issues that come from being abandoned by both Rumple and Milah and having every single bit moment of happiness constantly being ripped away from him because of magic. Neal’s led a pretty depressing life, so it’s not surprising he lacks the confidence that Emma would give them another shot at a life together if only he had looked for her.

@KFChimera wrote:

In What Happened to Frederick charming says–

Prince Charming: Well, I’m afraid I’m not able to help you, then. My ‘love’ told me in no uncertain terms that she does not feel for me as I do for her. You can’t fight for something that doesn’t exist. So, there’s my tragedy.

Charming then undergoes the task of fighting the Siren, realizes that since he was able to resist, that maybe his love is true and not one-sided and decides to fight for Snow. I would have preferred seeing Neal realize that his love for Tamara was just an illusion without the obvious proof that she’s holding a gun to his face. I would have liked the confessions and the portal better if he had called Tamara on her falseness out on the beach, despite her plausible explanation to be there. Then she could have run into the cannery, and THEN the portal thing could have happened as it did.

I’d have preferred too, but it’s understandable. It’s easier for Charming to have that realization because he’s not psychologically damaged like Neal is. Both Emma and Neal have psychological issues that they must deal with before they can remotely come to the point Snow and Charming are currently. Emma, having been featured in the show since the pilot, is more advanced in that regard than Neal, whose road is just beginning.

[kfchimera]

I definitely agree that characters start off as flawed so they can have room to grow. Yet those flaws, and the writers choice to have Emma believe Neal is dead (rather than having the hope he is still alive and refusing to believe it), also opens a door for the audience to root for Emma to fall for someone else, like Hook, who has just grown a little (I”m suddenly thinking of the grinch…his heart grew two sizes!).

Neal’s damaged state plays into the Love Cannot Overcome Trope. I agree that Neal is just starting a hero’s journey, and that Emma is continuing on hers, so I don’t see the outcome as already decided between them one way or the other. They could do the noble step-aside thing or he could be turned into a romantic false lead or maybe that is Hook’s role. Without more development though, the sudden declaration smacks of Strangled by the Red String of Fate trope. The falling through the portal thing saved the hurried “I love you” from being that, but I am still waiting for what comes next in the story.

I’m still leaning to thinking Neal will eventually grow and overcome his damaged past, and be given the chance to prove his worth so to speak. I could also see the writers ending things with a happy ending for Neal that focuses more on his filial love for Henry than romantic love for Emma. I just don’t think the portal scene, as touching as it was, had enough build up for the kind of “ok, these two are meant to be” conclusion that some draw, and I think that was on purpose. There are lots of things the writers could have done to provide more development and they chose not to do it. They’re probably well aware of those tropes, as this isn’t their first rodeo, and some of them have written quite epic love triangles before. I’d prefer they continue to subvert the trope stuff, like they did with Tamara (hah, talk about a romantic false lead!) and use it in a way that leads a romantic viewer down a garden path only to pull the rug out from under us (oh, he loves her, he’s doing it to help her….oh wait….he’s Bluebeard.). Not that I want Neal to be revealed to be a big bad, because I’m sappy. I just think in terms of storytelling over all, that these writers love to have twists. I’m waiting for what the twist is here, but I am hoping for a happy sappy ending too.

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

[Demileto]

@KFChimera wrote:

I definitely agree that characters start off as flawed so they can have room to grow. Yet those flaws, and the writers choice to have Emma believe Neal is dead (rather than having the hope he is still alive and refusing to believe it), also opens a door for the audience to root for Emma to fall for someone else, like Hook, who has just grown a little (I”m suddenly thinking of the grinch…his heart grew two sizes!).

Yup, as as much as I love SwanFire I suspect this is is exactly how it’s going to play out. The writers have given reign to Captain Swan speculations long enough for it not to happen at all, but Emma wouldn’t even consider another man so long as she could still hold a candle for her Tallahasse dream with Neal. It’s only natural for them to take this Neal-less time in her life to build up the alternative.

@KFChimera wrote:

I’m still leaning to thinking Neal will eventually grow and overcome his damaged past, and be given the chance to prove his worth so to speak. I could also see the writers ending things with a happy ending for Neal that focuses more on his filial love for Henry than romantic love for Emma. I just don’t think the portal scene, as touching as it was, had enough build up for the kind of “ok, these two are meant to be” conclusion that some draw, and I think that was on purpose. There are lots of things the writers could have done to provide more development and they chose not to do it. They’re probably well aware of those tropes, as this isn’t their first rodeo, and some of them have written quite epic love triangles before. I’d prefer they continue to subvert the trope stuff, like they did with Tamara (hah, talk about a romantic false lead!) and use it in a way that leads a romantic viewer down a garden path only to pull the rug out from under us (oh, he loves her, he’s doing it to help her….oh wait….he’s Bluebeard.). Not that I want Neal to be revealed to be a big bad, because I’m sappy. I just think in terms of storytelling over all, that these writers love to have twists. I’m waiting for what the twist is here, but I am hoping for a happy sappy ending too.

They’re very obviously avoiding a situation that’d make undoubtly clear to the audience who’s Emma’s meant to be with, that’s for sure; I for certain don’t expect a TLK between either Neal/Emma or Hook/Emma anytime soon. That said, what Neal and Emma had definitely doesn’t seem like your run-of-the-mill love story, seeing how they never really could let go of each other despite all the pain to the point of each of them keeping an object that was significant to the relationship they once had – a trait that known true love couples like Snowing and Rumbelle share with Ruth’s Ring and the Chipped Cup. And while there’s always the chance they’ll take their separate ways and just be two good friends who co-parent, I’m confident that a show that’s about hope and has Henry as its main MacGuffin would naturally gravitate towards an ending that better reflects what’d a happy ending for Henry be the most, and The Evil Queen episode clearly shows that involves Neal and Emma being together again.

I’ve always been enamored with the idea that Bae was Henry’s father, but before Tallahasse I’ve always thought that’d come from nothing more than fling between them, especially with the theories that existed back then that he was a married guy. In this context, Emma’s endgame would still be a big blank slate since her relationship with Henry’s father wasn’t that significant. That’s not how it happened, though; in fact, it was quite the opposite. Their love story feels so much like it was an intense one for them to not really letting of each other despite all the years apart that I can’t see Neal not having an unfair advantage over Hook in Emma’s heart. That the majoriy of the main cast would naturally gravitate towards Neal than Hook in the battle for Emma’s heart doesn’t help things either.

Given the way they handled Neal and Emma, I feel like they should’ve instead chosen Regina for a triangle. Despite all her psychological problems, her true love is known to be dead, ensuring her in a most definite way to be a blank slate for a real, “there are no contextual clues that point towards who she’ll end up with” triangle.

[Phee]

@Demileto wrote:

@KFChimera wrote:

I do feel the portal scene came up a bit quick in the storytelling, as Neal’s story also involves more than his sacrifice to let Emma be the savior, but also his guilt about that choice, and his relationship with Tamara.

The portal scene surprised even the most rabid SwanFire shipper; NO ONE was expecting them to declare their love for each other this earlier. That said, both Neal and Emma have shown through simple gestures that even though they’ve been apart for 10 years they’ve never truly forgotten each other, so the portal scene wasn’t that big of a leap.

Part of me was, “OMG I didn’t expect that so soon!” and part of me was, “Well it’s about freaking time!” 😆

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