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No, Henry isn’t the real Savior if that was the case, why did PP have to have the curse broke to go after Henry? Like I said in another post PP can fly to England and FTL, but not to SB where Henry is other wise why would PP need Tamara and Greg to bring Henry to NL especially if Henry is a “True Believer” wouldn’t PP been able to get him without help and how come PP couldn’t pick the right kid the 1st time?
[adrotate group="5"]No, Henry isn’t the real Savior if that was the case, why did PP have to have the curse broke to go after Henry?
But Henry wouldn’t be the true believer without the Curse. Henry had to be trapped in SB, seeing what Regina did, and believe in Emma and magic in order for him to be the truest believer. The Curse was fundamental in making him the truest believer. If Pan had just taken him as a child, he would probably be an ordinary child. Henry needed that life situation in order to become the one with the heart of truest believer. They always say that evil isn’t born it’s made. But the opposite is also true: good isn’t born. It’s made.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Whenever Henry’s been referred to (in interviews and stuff) as the product of both light and dark magic, I’ve always figured they meant in a nature/nurture kinda way, where he gets the light from Emma and the dark from Regina. But calling Neal the spawn of the Dark One does make it sound like they’re referring to darkness in Rumple.
Yeah that was a confusing part. But they’ve always said that Henry is the product of both light and dark magic. I think it can mean Regina but I agree that it might have a lot to do with something that happened to Rumple as a child.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"All I can think of it at the moment is that perhaps we’ll see that Rumple was doomed/cursed/marked somehow from a young age, so there was actually something dark lurking inside him even before he was the Dark One? Most of us figure that his doll being in NL means he was in NL as a child, so perhaps something happened to alter him while he was there?
I’ve been toying with that possibility ever since we learned that Rumple’s father would be featured in 3×11. I mean, why else would he be in the episode that closes the Neverland chapter if his role wasn’t critical to the story?
It’s interesting that Henry could be seen as the person to save magic, wasn’t he wanting to destroy magic at one point? (I could be remembering that wrong.) He is the reason Regina shows restraint when using her magic now. I’m not sure how much restraint Rumple would show on Henry’s behalf, but I do think he cares for him. Did Pan bring Henry simply to lure two of the greatest magic users to NL at the same time? And why? To save magic, like he says? To play an epic game?
All I can think of it at the moment is that perhaps we’ll see that Rumple was doomed/cursed/marked somehow from a young age, so there was actually something dark lurking inside him even before he was the Dark One? Most of us figure that his doll being in NL means he was in NL as a child, so perhaps something happened to alter him while he was there?
I’ve been toying with that possibility ever since we learned that Rumple’s father would be featured in 3×11. I mean, why else would he be in the episode that closes the Neverland chapter if his role wasn’t critical to the story?
Because BROTHERS! 😉 I’ve been wondering if perhaps Rumple’s *cough*andPan’s*cough* father could maybe be a prisoner in NL? Maybe Rumple wasn’t abandoned at all, maybe his father was kidnapped?
It’s interesting that Henry could be seen as the person to save magic, wasn’t he wanting to destroy magic at one point? (I could be remembering that wrong.)
You’re remembering right, he took the dynamite to the well in the hope of blowing up magic and destroying it. Something else Henry has said before though, is that he wants to be a hero in a story, so it jumped right out at me when Pan actually told him he was gonna be a hero.
You’re remembering right, he took the dynamite to the well in the hope of blowing up magic and destroying it. Something else Henry has said before though, is that he wants to be a hero in a story, so it jumped right out at me when Pan actually told him he was gonna be a hero.
Peter is very good at knowing how to exploit people. Last week it was Emma, this week Henry. So is PP lying? Possibly. He needs Henry to hand over that heart (figurative or literal) willingly and that means playing on Henry’s desire to be a hero.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Okay, I just went through and transcribed the Henry/Pan conversation from my closed captions. This might help the discussion:
HENRY: I don’t belong here.
PAN: Actually, you do. We’ve been waiting for you a very long time, Henry. Long before you were even born.
HENRY: I don’t believe that.
PAN: (huffs) You should. This place runs on imagination, on belief. But your world stopped believing. Magic is dying, and you, Henry, need to save it.
HENRY: In my world, you mean.
PAN: (scoffs) In every world. You need to bring it back. That’s your destiny, to return the magic, to be the savior.
HENRY: My mom Emma is the savior, not me.
PAN: (scoffs) Yeah, she broke some curse, yeah. Oh, I know more than you think. But what if breaking the curse wasn’t the thing that made her the savior? What if having you was? Think about it. You’re decended from the greatest of light and of dark. What, you think it’s a coincidence that the span of the Dark One met your mother? You were created for a reason, and I can help you find it.
HENRY: So you think I’m supposed to save magic.
PAN: I don’t think. I believe. Remember I, uh, said I had something to show you. Here. I’ve had this for a very long time, long before you were even thought of. Take a look and you’ll know why I’m so sure you’re the hero magic has been waiting for.
*hands Henry a scroll, who throws it down*
HENRY: I don’t believe you.
PAN: (chuckles) You remind me of your father.
Thanks, Josephine. I’m adding another quote/information from Nasty Habits to the discussion because I have some interesting theory based on both quotes (and it fit’s well into this topic.)
PAN: It makes sense for us to dream about the things we’ve lost and the things we hoped for, like your father being alive and your mother coming to find you. But eventually, you’ll find new things to dream about. And when you do, they’ll start to come true.
HENRY: How do you know?
PAN: Because that’s what I did. And now you’re here. Neverland used to be a place where new dreams were born. You can bring that magic back, Henry.
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That’s interesting and sound for me like Neverland is a place in which dreams can come true and that Henry will get the ability to make things true by imaginating and just believing to them. And that Peter had this power once, even though he isn’t the “truest believer”.
Combined with the first quote it reminds me now really to the Neverending Story.
And I’m talking about the original novel and not about the movie. And I might warn you now because this might be a spoiler for those who haven’t read the book.
The first part of the book is mostly about Atreyu searching for a way to safe Fantasia from the Nothing. He find’s out that he has to search for a child from our world and bring him to the Childlike Empress so he can give her a new name and safe Fantasia. And in the middle of the book Bastian, who read the story find out that he has already became a part of it and was the saviour for who Fantasia was waiting for.
Well Fantasia actually represents imagination. And the Nothing just represented that Imagination/Fantasia was dying because people stopped to imaginate in the real world. That’s something which the Werewolf Gmork told Atreyu. But Bastian was a bookwyrm who loved to tell stories and was able, so he was some kind of special like Henry is.
More important is the second part of the Neverending Story. Bastian actually get sucked into the book after he safed Fantasia a new name and had to reimaginate it. By telling stories. So all his dreams, wishes and stories came true.
So he was able to create everything he wanted inside Fantasia by imaginating it. But the downside was that for every wish he made he forget something about his real self. So he forgot how he looked like after he wished to look different etc.
Actually the second part of the book is about the dangers of imagination. The message is that you have to take care not beeing getting stucked inside because you can lose yourself inside of it. What Bastian almost did. (I hope it wasn’t so much spoilery^^)Pan said, that he once did make dreams come true and Neverland is a place where dreams were born. So I wonder If Peter Pan is a lost boy in the case that he once had a similar power created Neverland or just make it looked like it looks today, maybe even gave these mighty power he has to himself, but losed himself inside these land of imagination. Maybe his name isn’t even Peter Pan. He just made himself into that person. And time after time because he losed/forget himself he wasn’t be able to use that power anymore, because he could just beliefe into Peter Pan and not into his true self.
And now he maybe needs Henry, to get this power again?“There were thousands and thousands of forms of joy in the world, but that all were essentially one and the same, namely, the joy of being able to love.”
— from the Neverending Story by Michael EndePan said, that he once did make dreams come true and Neverland is a place where dreams were born. So I wonder If Peter Pan is a lost boy in the case that he once had a similar power created Neverland or just make it looked like it looks today, maybe even gave these mighty power he has to himself, but losed himself inside these land of imagination. Maybe his name isn’t even Peter Pan. He just made himself into that person. And time after time because he losed/forget himself he wasn’t be able to use that power anymore, because he could just beliefe into Peter Pan and not into his true self.
Interesting! I think you might be on to something here. Peter shaped NL to be what he imaged but (I’m gonna go away from you a bit here) if his previous life was full of loneliness and sadness and mental/phsycial abuse at the hands of his (and Rumple’s) father (cause I’m on #TeamBrothers) then his imagination was a dark and twisted place. His games are the stuff of nightmares because his whole life was a waking nightmare. I think what was fueling this descent into madness was the Shadow (which I now believe is NOT Peter’s). The Shadow fed into his darkness and helped bring his horrors to life. Eventually Peter learned to NL and collect boys to bring to NL but overtime his heart grew so dark that it stopped being able to shape NL and the Shadow needs a new heart. So together they put a plan in motion for Henry to be born. They need Henry’s heart to be given to NL willingly. Once Henry begins to understand his own power and shape NL according to his design he basically becomes the Next Pan.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Great ideas! I think you are all onto it. Here’s one more wrinkle. Remember in “The Return”, the Blue Fairy said to Bae “His [Rumple’s] magic does not belong in this world.” What if Peter Pan was responsible for bringing the magic of the original Dark One from Neverland to the Enchanted Forest? Perhaps Henry not only has the power to save magic but also to destroy it. Most of us have been assuming that the Seer’s prophecy of Rumple’s “undoing” refers to him losing his magic, not his life. What if he loses that magic because Henry doesn’t just free Rumple from being the Dark One, he destroys the source of all dark magic in Neverland? So Pan needs to convince Henry that he is destined to be a hero to save magic when in reality, he is working to prevent Henry from fulfilling his destiny of destroying magic. So Henry finally gets the means to do what he wanted to do at the well in Storybrooke (we know how much these writers love foreshadowing.)
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