Is this show still about Hope? : post Neals death

[RumplesGirl]

Sharing multiple perspectives and views makes for a perfectly healthy discussion.

Absolutely

But here’s the rub: right now, we don’t want a debate or discussion. Death isn’t logical and our response right now is not to try and hash it out with logic and reasons and meta essays. Right now, we want to mourn and be angry and find consolation and solace in people who have the same opinions. That’s why we haven’t really left the SF thread. We want our little bubble as our safe place right now. And people keep coming at us trying to say, “no you should see it this way” or “have you considered this” or “too much anger….” and right now, we’re simply not feeling it.

Maybe by next week I’ll be back to my super long response self. Right now, I’m thinking like someone who has lost something and someone dear to her.

It is rational? No of course not.

Is it human? Yes.

[Ranisha Pitts]

The question is subjective, therefore the answers will be just as subjective.  IS the show still about hope? that depends on the viewer to decided on that. For some yes its about hope, for others no its no longer about hope.
I don’t doubt Emma, Henry, and Rumple will get a bittersweet happy ending. Because when you lose a love one that you hold dear there is always a little bitterness among that sweetness.

Of course this is tv, so I expect things and emotions will be rush along where Neal be nothing more of a whisper of a thought, like Graham bootlace, he will be Emma’s swan keychain, her Henry, her yellowbug.

There was no hope for Neal Cassidy, there was never any hope for little Baelfire.

So what I take from this there is hope for a selective few, but when it comes to others not so much.

And when it comes to Once all I can say I lost hope in it.

 

"I will be kind but I will speak my mind."

[sherazade]

I wasn’t trying to change any of your opinions. Should have been clearer.

That goes for me too. I hope I didn’t offend anyone with my earlier post. If I did, I apologize. I was trying to formulate my own answer to the question that this topic asks. Nothing more.

[Myril]

But here’s the rub: right now, we don’t want a debate or discussion. Death isn’t logical and our response right now is not to try and hash it out with logic and reasons and meta essays. Right now, we want to mourn and be angry and find consolation and solace in people who have the same opinions. That’s why we haven’t really left the SF thread. We want our little bubble as our safe place right now. And people keep coming at us trying to say, “no you should see it this way” or “have you considered this” or “too much anger….” and right now, we’re simply not feeling it.

With all due respect, and I respect that there are people who feel hurt and sad, who mourn and are angry, but there are as well people who feel differently about the show and what has happened in the recent episode. Reactions in the fandom and audience to the death of Neal are all over the map, and it is sure not an easy time for discussions in the stormy wake of events. At the moment I really try to hold back out of respect, but trust me, that is not that easy, I have more than a basket full of replies I haven’t posted due to respecting feelings for the time being. There are some things said in the wake of events about characters and development and events which I sometimes strongly disagree with, but for the sake of peace I let some things go for the moment.

But as much as those mourning need a place to do so, others need a place to talk and discuss things from their point of views as well. And some of what is said by them will be not liked by those how mourn, but what they are posting is just how they feel.

Let’s just say, those who mourn have their threads and places to let it all out. And those who don’t have their threads to talk and discuss. I don’t want to avoid coming to these forums for the rest of the season because of that, by I am wondering if perhaps better I should, because, no, the mourn and anger is not just in the shipping threads (which I already avoid most of the time anyway, but had an inkling at the moment definitely should stay away from there). It’s okay, I can take that it is all over the place, that there is an overall feeling of gloom hanging in the background and sometimes showing full force, as long as it is still accepted to voice a different view at least in some threads as carefully as I think all of us with a different view on here did so far (I know in other places the opinions and views are not so regardfull). If it is not accepted or at least tolerated anymore, then I am out of it for a while, I say it that bluntly now. Just let me know, no hard feelings, just trying to avoid to cause lasting schism.

That said. I agree mostly with what has been sad by some in this thread. @sherazade, @MatthewPaul and @Grimmsistr said most of what I am thinking. The show is still telling stories of hope and will tell stories of hope, but as well there were, are and will be stories questioning to have hope. Keeping hope up sometimes is something coming not easy.

¯\_(?????? ?)_/¯

[Phee]

But as much as those mourning need a place to do so, others need a place to talk and discuss things from their point of views as well. And some of what is said by them will be not liked by others, but what they are posting is just how they feel.

That’s all well and good, and as long as people discuss the topic in the proper places, that’s fine, go for it. But there HAVE been comments that SFers and Neal fans should get over it. RG has had it said that she should get over the death of her own father. THAT is crossing the line. Leave those of us who are upset and angry to be upset and angry. It’s possible to discuss an opposing viewpoint (in the appropriate threads) without sinking to implying that the people who are upset and angry should just grow up and accept it. And I’m not saying that all, or even the majority have implied that, but the fact is that SOME have, which just exacerbates the situation and makes people who are already upset feel more sensitive about the topic and more defensive, as opposed to being conducive to productive discussion of the topic.

[Myril]

I am sorry that people have crossed personal lines, I didn’t know there were on here. Address those people, tell them to leave it or to leave the forums. But I am not letting myself been thrown in the same box with them. I have different views about the death of Neal, I am going to voice them with all due respect, I did here. I would like to discuss my views and impressions about recent (and upcoming episodes) still openly here as well, but I don’t feel like I can do that anymore. I am not that invested in characters, and talking about it more looking at story telling and psychology of characters maybe, and there is a chance that I might hurt feelings just because I have a different relation to the show. I see, at the moment there are too many hurt feelings already, too much anger, too much feelings in general, so I will leave it for the time being, for good.

¯\_(?????? ?)_/¯

[RumplesGirl]

I did here. I would like to discuss my views and impressions about recent (and upcoming episodes) still openly here as well, but I don’t feel like I can do that anymore. I am not that invested in characters, and talking about it more looking at story telling and psychology of characters maybe, and there is a chance that I might hurt feelings just because I have a different relation to the show. I see, at the moment there are too many hurt feelings already, too much anger, too much feelings in general, so I will leave it for the time being, for good.

Everyone should feel free to address Neal’s death in the threads. There are many of them. You totally misunderstood me, @Myril. It’s not that there can’t be debate. It’s that the SF place is no someplace those shippers want it.

That has never been in question. I’m just saying: going into a shipping thread means you will read things you will not like–Neal’s death and thoughts on that aside. We have *always* maintained the rule that you should not attack shippers in their threads because of fandom fighting. This is not a new rule. You may read whatever you so desire, naturally, but the shippers think of their threads as havens—all shippers: SF, CS, OQ, ect.

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[Grimmsister]

We have *always* maintained the rule that you should not attack shippers in their threads because of fandom fighting. This is not a new rule. You may read whatever you so desire, naturally, but the shippers think of their threads as havens—all shippers: SF, CS, OQ, ect.

I posted in that SF thread the other day. Again it was just a question or a point of view and it was definantly not ment as trying to offent anyone. I never knew there was a rule that you couldnt post a different view in the shipper threads. But wont do it Again then if that is how it is.

 

[RumplesGirl]

RumplesGirl wrote:

We have *always* maintained the rule that you should not attack shippers in their threads because of fandom fighting. This is not a new rule. You may read whatever you so desire, naturally, but the shippers think of their threads as havens—all shippers: SF, CS, OQ, ect.

I posted in that SF thread the other day. Again it was just a question or a point of view and it was definantly not ment as trying to offent anyone. I never knew there was a rule that you couldnt post a different view in the shipper threads. But wont do it Again then if that is how it is.

That’s not how it is.

I’m obviously not explaining myself well.

We had a lot of fighting awhile back–I mean a lot. And it came from the shipping threads, when people would try to post ideas about a different viewpoint in a shipping thread. It was not met well by the shippers themselves. Like I said, lots of fighting. I would never discourage people from posting their thoughts, but…this isn’t even a forum issue. It’s a fandom issue. Trying to talk to a person about shipping is like talking religion or politics. It gets heated, it gets ugly. It’s not even the good kind of debate with respect on both sides–I’m talking down and out actual yelling and screaming at each other. “Get out of our thread!” “You can’t bring this here” ect

So while I encourage people to post their thoughts on whatever and wherever, when it comes to the shipping threads…just…tread carefully. Because the fandom (all fandom I wager..and not just here at ONCE podcast) are sensitive when it comes to shipping.

Grimm, you in particular : I wasn’t offended by what you asked or what you were saying. It’s just a sensitive time for some. I’m getting better, a little bit. I’m willing to talk more. Doing the podcast last night did help, it was cathartic. But I know that there are still fans who are deeply hurt and upset.

I like peace, guys. Always have. I have tried since day one to maintain that here. When I have people coming to me telling me how upset they are, I have to try and course correct. How do I make this better, is the question I ask.

I have never been perfect. And it’s a fine line between stiffling conversation and letting all voices be heard, darn the consequences.

If anyone felt like I was trying to knock down the conversation as a whole, I apologize. That has never once been my intention. People have been respectful. And for that I am grateful. These threads about Neals’ death are good ones to have–this is an important conversation to have. But some people don’t want to have it, and so they are sticking to a thread where they don’t have to have it. But some feel as though they are being forced into conversation, and that’s where the pain and anger is coming from.

It’s a tricky time. It will get better.

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[Grimmsister]

Grimmsistr wrote:
I never knew there was a rule that you couldnt post a different view in the shipper threads. But wont do it Again then if that is how it is.

That’s not how it is.

Okay 🙂

Trying to talk to a person about shipping is like talking religion or politics. It gets heated, it gets ugly. It’s not even the good kind of debate with respect on both sides

Because the fandom (all fandom I wager..and not just here at ONCE podcast) are sensitive when it comes to shipping. Grimm, you in particular : I wasn’t offended by what you asked or what you were saying. It’s just a sensitive time for some.[/quote]

Yes, I suppose I dont know so much about this shipping business and how sensitive a topic it can be. But Im glad I didnt offent yoy then 🙂

And it’s a fine line between stiffling conversation and letting all voices be heard, darn the consequences.[/quote]

I bet that is not always easy. I always do try to promote free speech wherever as long as its respectfull, but orcourse that is easy enough when you dont have to moderate between the fighters 🙂

It’s a tricky time. It will get better. [/quote]

that is good to hear.

[Author]

Posts