Is time parallel and can Neverland move through time?

[Daniel J. Lewis]

After seeing the two-part finale, we’ve confirmed a couple things about time. Here are some facts.

• Bae went to 19th century London—that’s anytime in the 1800s (but Bg Ben was completed in 1858).
• Neal told Emma that if our world was his first stop, that he would’ve been hundreds of years old.
• Wendy said that time works differently in Neverland—she felt like she was gone for a long time, but it was only overnight.
• Hook went to Neverland where he wouldn’t age and he would “live long enough” (Rumple’s words) to figure out how to kill the Dark One.
• Neal exited Neverland at some point and started aging in our world.
• Peter Pan has a drawing of Henry “before” Henry was even born.
• We’ve seen directly parallels in time from Enchanted Forest (EF) to Storybrooke (SB): Pinocchio and Emma crossing over and then everyone else, 28 years pass in both SB and EF before time starts moving again, Mary Margaret and Emma go to EF directly parallel to our time, events in EF and SB are directly aligned to the minute when Aurora and Henry plan their meetings, Cora and Hook come to SB right after Emma and Mary Margaret return.

I now think that the EF and SB timelines are exactly parallel. We had previously thought Rumple was 300 years old, but the writers and Bobby Carlyle said this outside of the TV show. So this may be a detail they changed.

But the EF and SB timeline still works if Bae came to London only about 150 years ago. The only other timeline elements we have to bridge the gap between Milah and the curse are:

• Three Ogres Wars—the one Rumple stopped, the “second” one that Granny’s brothers were in (she called it the second one), and the third when Rumple took Belle
• Geppetto was around 8 when Jiminy brought gold to Rumplestiltskin, and Geppetto was around 60 or 70 when the curse hit.
• Rumple was around when Cora was still young, but this was probably after Geppetto.

So I don’t see any problem fitting all of these events in 150 years instead of 300 years.

Now let’s consider Neverland. Wendy said time worked differently there, but she didn’t say how. Throw in that Peter Pan has a drawing of Henry before he was born, and we need to consider two possible theories.

• Time simply moves faster in Neverland. This would explain why Wendy felt a long time pass, when it was only overnight to us. But this would mean anyone in Neverland, including Hook, Smee, and Baelfire, experienced several times as many years in Neverland as we experienced here. This could be a 7:1 ratio, or even bigger. Thus Bae and Hook may have felt 400 or more years pass. If time simply moves faster, then Peter Pan must’ve been or had access to a seer who could draw Henry.
• Neverland can move through time. This can still explain Wendy’s time perception, but it would also explain how Peter may have seen or known of Henry long before he was born. If Neverland can move through time, then it could have returned Hook and Neal to their respective destinations at any points in the timeline.

So I think Neverland can move through time, but it could only connect to our world once Bae broke through and introduced magic.

I probably made some heads spin.

[RumplesGirl]

A few things as I read:
–We know that Neal came to our world in 1991. On his wanted poster it said he was born in 1977, but he came here when he was 14. So he had to have come through in 1991.

I don’t know about NL time moving faster. You don’t age in NL and clearly Neal didn’t, he was 14 for a very long time. If anything NL’s time is much slower.

NL can move through time: ehhh. Maybe? I think it’s more likely that Peter has prophetic abilities. Prophecy seems to be playing a large role this season and next as we never fully dealt with the undoing of Rumple’s prophecy.

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[HappyEndings]

I think it’s more likely that Peter has prophetic abilities. Prophecy seems to be playing a large role this season and next as we never fully dealt with the undoing of Rumple’s prophecy.

I agree and that is why he has a photo of Harry from the future.

[Keb]

@RumplesGirl wrote:

A few things as I read:
–We know that Neal came to our world in 1991. On his wanted poster it said he was born in 1977, but he came here when he was 14. So he had to have come through in 1991.

But are we sure that he came straight to The Land Without Magic from NL? Or that he’d portray his age honestly on whatever ID they were using to create the wanted poster? (After all, he does like bars…so it’s possible he’d fudge that a bit sometime between coming to this world and Tallahassee.)

Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing

[RumplesGirl]

@Keb wrote:

@RumplesGirl wrote:

A few things as I read:
–We know that Neal came to our world in 1991. On his wanted poster it said he was born in 1977, but he came here when he was 14. So he had to have come through in 1991.

But are we sure that he came straight to The Land Without Magic from NL? Or that he’d portray his age honestly on whatever ID they were using to create the wanted poster? (After all, he does like bars…so it’s possible he’d fudge that a bit sometime between coming to this world and Tallahassee.)

That’s all very true so I guess instead I should say: until we are told otherwise and with what we have to go on, Neal came to our world in 1991.

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[shack1212]

How confirmed is the 1800s thing? I’ve been using 1902-1904 as my London timeline, since that’s when the original Peter Pan is set

I don’t see the writers complicating it with time travel personally. I think it’s just time moving faster in Neverland. If time is at a 2:1 ratio from Neverland to Earth, implying Wendy spent a full day in Neverland when it was one night to Bae, I think the timeline works.

Presume Bae has aged about 35 years either FTL before he went to NL, or after he came to Earth. If he’s 250-300 years old, that leaves 215-265 years to be accounted for. If the London scenes are somewhere between 1858 and 1904, that’s a 133-87 year gap to Neal’s estimated arrival date of 1991 going by RumpleGirl’s information. So 2:1 from Neverland or in the ballpark of that, fits the timeline very well. For example say it was:

– Bae is 14 when he arrives in London, the amount of time spent there short enough to be irrelevant

– He arrives in 1880

– After going to Neverland, he spents 110 years Earth/EF time, which is 220 years Neverland time at a 2:1 ratio

– Bae arrives in 1991 at 234 years old (220+14). He’s since aged 20 more years making him 254-ish

[Keb]

There are two season one clues that portals might possibly maybe be able to cause travel through time as well as space–Rumple’s comment to August when he thought he was Bae and the fact that Regina was able to use the hat to get an apple from the past. BUT A&E have said they’re not doing time travel stuff (on twitter, I think it was). And the ability to travel through time seems very limited, since you don’t see Hook or Regina going back in time to stop their TL’s deaths or Rumple trying to go back in time to get Bae back. Considering everything else they were willing to go through, their not even considering it means it’s not really an option.

Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing

[RumplesGirl]

Yes, in an interview A and E said they wouldn’t be time traveling but in the Return, Rumple said (seriously, this is maybe the 20th in two weeks I’ve had to quote the Return):

but… I just want you to know, that ever since you left, ever since you crossed the barriers of time and space, in every waking moment… I’ve been looking for you. And now that I’ve finally found you

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[Myril]

Ah, the t-thing again … better get cookies, hot chocolate, just in case 😉

@RumplesGirl wrote:

I don’t know about NL time moving faster. You don’t age in NL and clearly Neal didn’t, he was 14 for a very long time. If anything NL’s time is much slower.

Not aging would mean either time is frozen in Neverland, it has just one loooong ever lasting day. Or it means that for the people the process of aging is suspended. Think the later. In other words: the staying forever young wonder of Neverland is independent of pace of time there.

That the day and night cycle in Neverland might be faster doesn’t though necessarily mean, that time moves faster, someone being there just will think or feel like it does, because the cycle is something we use as reference to determine time. Now if you have an atomic clock at hand, it is possible, that it shows the same time ticking away for Neverland and for example our world despite different night and day cycle. Just to make things more complicate 😉 Human time perception is a tricky thing often not in line with time measured with any kind of technical means (mechanical, chemical whatever).

@DanielJLewis wrote:

[*]Neverland can move through time. This can still explain Wendy’s time perception, but it would also explain how Peter may have seen or known of Henry long before he was born. If Neverland can move through time, then it could have returned Hook and Neal to their respective destinations at any points in the timeline.[/list]

So I think Neverland can move through time, but it could only connect to our world once Bae broke through and introduced magic.

I probably made some heads spin.

Move in time (and space) – reminds me of a certain island on a certain show which certain writers of this show here have been involved with.

In my opinion it still would contradict what K&H said in an interview, that time in OUaT is linear. I lean more towards the theory of a seer. Although of course still can question, why anyone is able to get views on future events if time is strictly linear. Now I think that OUaT is still more rooted in the mythology and structure of folk and fairy tales. Fairy tales universe know prophesies and seers but not usually time travel or crossing the barriers of time and space. People might fall asleep for some decades, centuries, be immortal, be able to see the future, see fate, manipulate fate, but they don’t jump around in time, different from science fiction. Not that I think that they would not mix up the genres, they do, but as I see it they still try to keep things more in the fairy tales logic. After all this show is called Once Upon a time and not Lost. 😛

But temporal mechanics is everybody’s fave subject at the academy, isn’t it, 😆

¯\_(?????? ?)_/¯

[timespacer]

@myril wrote:

Ah, the t-thing again … better get cookies, hot chocolate, just in case 😉

Although of course still can question, why anyone is able to get views on future events if time is strictly linear. Now I think that OUaT is still more rooted in the mythology and structure of folk and fairy tales. Fairy tales universe know prophesies and seers but not usually time travel or crossing the barriers of time and space. People might fall asleep for some decades, centuries, be immortal, be able to see the future, see fate, manipulate fate, but they don’t jump around in time, different from science fiction. Not that I think that they would not mix up the genres, they do, but as I see it they still try to keep things more in the fairy tales logic. After all this show is called Once Upon a time and not Lost. 😛

But temporal mechanics is everybody’s fave subject at the academy, isn’t it, 😆

I like the idea that Neverland might move through time. I agree that prophecy has more of a fairy tale “feel” to it than does traditional SF time travel, but they could introduce time travel in a logically consistent way if they wanted to. Good fantasy and SF writing usually starts with one “fantastical” assumption, such as magic or faster-than-light travel, and then shows consequences that are logically consistent with that assumption, without making a bunch of new assumptions.

We were told in the very first episode that Rumple could see the future and we got a more detailed description of that process when we met The Seer in “Manhattan.” The fact that prophecy exists in the Once universe shows us that information in that universe can flow backward in time, from the future to the past. But we know from the science of thermodynamics that in the real world the transfer of information requires the transfer of energy. We also know that energy is equivalent to mass (Einstein’s famous E = mc^2 equation) so the ability to transfer information to the past automatically implies the ability to transport matter to the past without requiring us to make any additional “fantastical” assumptions or violate any other physical laws.

Whether or not the writers will choose to use this possibility is of course a completely different question. Just because something is allowed by the physical laws they have assumed for their story doesn’t mean they have to use it. Physical time travel might be possible in their world but not practical – it could be prohibitively expensive, for example.

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