Home › Forums › Once Upon a Time › Season Two › 2×15 "The Queen Is Dead" › Keck’s Exclusives: OUaT Introduces Mom
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January 12, 2013 at 2:57 pm #168065obisgirlParticipant
Sorry about that sad story Scarlett Lady. 🙁 It sounds horrible.
@Phee wrote:
What you say about Eva and Leopold having had a wall up if this theory proved true, well perhaps they did. Or perhaps Eva did sometimes sadly mention a sister, though not by name, who had done wrong and how Eva wished she could have changed and maybe if they’d just given her one more chance. That trait would tie in with the person Snow became, and how we saw her wanting to give Regina one final chance.
I agree.
[adrotate group="5"]January 12, 2013 at 2:57 pm #168066antbeeParticipantThanks for sharing your story ScarletLady. That was incredibly brave.
However, I have to agree though with the posters that don’t think that Cora and Eva are sisters. Not that this show doesn’t like to connect the characters in any way they can, but I think they’re just connected because Cora was the one responsible for Eva’s death.
Just the way they portrayed Cora in “The Stable Boy” gave me the impression that she herself didn’t come from wealth/royalty, and that she tried very hard to attain a certain status, evidently achieved that status for a short time based on recent spoilers, but lost it all and tried to put Regina into a position of finally accomplishing what she could not do.
Not that it can’t mean that Cora’s plans were more about getting revenge on her sister than just about trying to get Regina to marry into wealth/power, but the way Cora came across to me was like one of those stage mothers from hell, who couldn’t do something when they were younger, so they force their children especially their daughters into trying to accomplish the goal to be able to live vicariously through them like Mama Rose Thompson or Dina Lohan. She just didn’t come across as someone who grew up in that lifestyle at all, and they gave no hints at that time that Snow and Regina might be related. However, they did possibly hint that Cora may have been the one responsible for Snow’s mother’s death because Cora tells Regina that Regina has no idea what she’s had to do to get Regina into a position to marry Leopold. Plus, she obviously was the one that spooked Snow’s horse with magic, so evidently getting King Leopold to marry Regina was part of Cora’s long con all along.
@RumplesGirl wrote:
I agree with this except I don’t think that automatically means they are sisters. I think Cora just really wants a throne (any throne) back. And she’s willing for it to be Regina because I think we all know that Cora would be the true power behind the throne. She could kill Eva without it being a family intrigue. We know Cora arranged for Snow’s horse to go go crazy in Stable Boy thus leading for Regina to save SW and met Leopold, so I don’t think it’s far outside the realm of possibility that she’s been plotting to take the throne for much longer.
If Henry did lose his kingdom/throne to George, it wouldn’t make sense for her to go after that realm because George had an heir, the original James who would have been the same age as Snow, and thus not marriageable age for Regina. Killing George wouldn’t help Cora get a throne.
I suppose she could have arranged for Regina to marry George but that wouldn’t be faithful to the original Fairy Tale.As for why she picked King Leopold, I agree with the above post that it may have been simply for the fact that Leopold didn’t have an heir while George technically did, since the only people that likely knew that James wasn’t George’s real son were George, his wife, and Rumpelstiltskin, so Regina could have gave Leopold a male son. Plus, I’m not sure where Cora was living at the time, but maybe she and Henry were banished from King George’s kingdom and were living in King Leopold’s kingdom, and it was just more convenient to target Leopold. Like say hypothetically, Prince Thomas’s father would have made a good target too, but maybe he lived thousands of miles away from Cora, so it’s not like she could orchestrate a long con from that far away and not look suspicious.
Speaking of Prince Thomas, in a round about way, personally I see Cora being similar to Ella in some ways. I think their personalities were very different, but I think they were both given the chance to make a deal with Rumpelstiltskin in exchange for their first born. However, they chose different paths after Rumpel reminds them of what will happen when their babies born. So Ella decides to give up her new life of wealth and status to try to protect her unborn child that way.
On the other hand, it seems that Cora may have tried to think she could have both her child and her new life of wealth and status. So like in RumplesGirl’s theory which she posted in “The Miller’s Daughter’s” spoiler section, I think she got a hold of the Dagger, so that Rumpel would have to agree to whatever she wanted which was getting to keep Regina and getting to still be Princess/Queen. Rumpel agrees because he doesn’t have any other choice, but he already has a plan to get back at Cora by making it so Henry loses his kingdom to George, and Cora is left with nothing but Henry and Regina. As years go by, Cora becomes really bitter and angry with herself that she finally was a Princess/Queen, but if she hadn’t wanted to hold onto Regina instead of just handing her over to Rumpelstiltskin, she could still be Princess/Queen. I think that maybe why she told Regina that love was a weakness because she grew to see herself as being weak.
January 12, 2013 at 3:08 pm #168067obisgirlParticipant@AntBee wrote:
Thanks for sharing your story ScarletLady. That was incredibly brave.
I agree. It was incredibly brave of you to do that and adds an extra layer to the conversation. Bravo.
@AntBee wrote:
Not that it can’t mean that Cora’s plans were more about getting revenge on her sister than just about trying to get Regina to marry into wealth/power, but the way Cora came across to me was like one of those stage mothers from hell, who couldn’t do something when they were younger, so they force their children especially their daughters into trying to accomplish the goal to be able to live vicariously through them like Mama Rose Thompson or Dina Lohan.
Parents living vicariously through their children, accomplishing their dreams because they never could. I can see forcing Regina to want power because she couldn’t when she was younger.
@AntBee wrote:
On the other hand, it seems that Cora may have tried to think she could have both her child and her new life of wealth and status. So like in RumplesGirl’s theory which she posted in “The Miller’s Daughter’s” spoiler section, I think she got a hold of the Dagger, so that Rumpel would have to agree to whatever she wanted which was getting to keep Regina and getting to still be Princess/Queen. Rumpel agrees because he doesn’t have any other choice, but he already has a plan to get back at Cora by making it so Henry loses his kingdom to George, and Cora is left with nothing but Henry and Regina. As years go by, Cora becomes really bitter and angry with herself that she finally was a Princess/Queen, but if she hadn’t wanted to hold onto Regina instead of just handing her over to Rumpelstiltskin, she could still be Princess/Queen. I think that maybe why she told Regina that love was a weakness because she grew to see herself as being weak.
That’s possible too.
January 12, 2013 at 9:44 pm #168087MyrilParticipant@medchen wrote:
Cora and Snows mother sisters 😀 yes! love it. It ties it with the fairytale Snow white and Rose red, gives Cora a possibility of motiv to hate and want revenge on her sister- maybe she kills her.. She wanted what her sister had, the prince, the power, the good life.
You’re confusing one fairy tale with another (some people do). Snow White and Rose Red is the tale of two sisters, right, but two sister loving each other and sticking together. They have a happy ending together: Snow White marrying the prince the two sisters saved together, and Red Rose marries the brother of the prince.
The two sisters you might think of are stepsisters (or at best half-sisters – it’s not clear in the tale if they have the same father or not) It’s the tale of Mother Hulda (Frau Holle). Has a bit of Cinderella. The two girls are not named in the fairy tale, but in German they are in the end called Goldmarie und Pechmarie (in english translation the name Marie was more general understood and translated as girl, so it’s golden girl and pitchy girl). There are some other tales, Cinderella to name one, but not remembering details right now of more, telling stories of jealous stepsister or sisters.
All variations, sisters, half-sisters, stepsisters, not sister at all have interesting aspects and probably can be turned into interesting stories and work here. So far no facts from the show I can think of speak against Cora and Eva eventually being related, but neither does anything so far really suggest it.
That said. I’d prefer them to be not related. It might seem interesting to make them sisters or so, but it has too much of a soap opera for my taste, and it could become a sort of Dynasty of the Fairy Tale Lands (or Storybook Lands). Well, but guess some people would even like that. On the other hand could argue, the show more or less already is there, so let’s do it to the full.
@AntBee wrote:
On the other hand, it seems that Cora may have tried to think she could have both her child and her new life of wealth and status. So like in RumplesGirl’s theory which she posted in “The Miller’s Daughter’s” spoiler section, I think she got a hold of the Dagger, so that Rumpel would have to agree to whatever she wanted which was getting to keep Regina and getting to still be Princess/Queen. Rumpel agrees because he doesn’t have any other choice, but he already has a plan to get back at Cora by making it so Henry loses his kingdom to George, and Cora is left with nothing but Henry and Regina. As years go by, Cora becomes really bitter and angry with herself that she finally was a Princess/Queen, but if she hadn’t wanted to hold onto Regina instead of just handing her over to Rumpelstiltskin, she could still be Princess/Queen. I think that maybe why she told Regina that love was a weakness because she grew to see herself as being weak.
I’ve asked that already in the other thread, but maybe it’s better to discuss it here: Why should Cora ever have given back the dagger if she once had it? Cora doesn’t struck me as a person caring much about deals or code of honor, she does, what she thinks she has to do. So, unless she had no idea, why the dagger is so important for Rumple, why should she have given it up? I mean, come on, controlling the Dark One, what a power that offers, power to become rich and powerful and get everything for the daughter. Not saying the story by no means could go that way, but then have to come up with some good explanation, why Cora hasn’t the dagger anymore.
A thing I noticed when rewatching the episode, in which Regina learns that her mother has become who she is because of Rumple (episode 2×02): Henry sr. tells his daughter, that Cora never told him the name of that man (aka Rumple), and that Cora and that man met before Henry sr. met Cora. Something to bear in mind for story ideas and theory building.
¯\_(?????? ?)_/¯
January 13, 2013 at 3:33 am #168112PheeParticipant@myril wrote:
A thing I noticed when rewatching the episode, in which Regina learns that her mother has become who she is because of Rumple (episode 2×02): Henry sr. tells his daughter, that Cora never told him the name of that man (aka Rumple), and that Cora and that man met before Henry sr. met Cora. Something to bear in mind for story ideas and theory building.
That’s something that I’d thought could have suggested that the Miller’s Daughter story with Rumple may have involved another king, potentially George, and Henry Sr came into the story later, after she got out of her deal to marry the king. But now we know that Henry Sr was indeed royalty, and the one involved in the Once version of the Miller’s Daughter story. I liked that they kept that air of secrecy surrounding Rumple’s name back then, because it certainly wasn’t like that in the latter days of FTL, which some had questioned as being a bit inconsistent.
January 13, 2013 at 10:16 am #168122GrimmsisterParticipant@myril wrote:
@medchen wrote:
Cora and Snows mother sisters 😀 yes! love it. It ties it with the fairytale Snow white and Rose red, gives Cora a possibility of motiv to hate and want revenge on her sister- maybe she kills her.. She wanted what her sister had, the prince, the power, the good life.
You’re confusing one fairy tale with another (some people do). Snow White and Rose Red is the tale of two sisters, right, but two sister loving each other and sticking together. They have a happy ending together: Snow White marrying the prince the two sisters saved together, and Red Rose marries the brother of the prince.
The two sisters you might think of are stepsisters (or at best half-sisters – it’s not clear in the tale if they have the same father or not) It’s the tale of Mother Hulda (Frau Holle)….
.Not confusing them, just bending the Snow White and Rose Red story a bit 😀 I know everyone was all “happy happy, we’re all friends” in this tale. But lets face it- happy happy ..is a bit boring.
These two sisters both befriended a bear that turned out to be a prince. Snow White married the Prince and Rose Red had to ‘settle’ for the brother, who wasn’t even a part of the fairytale till the end, where he was needed so that Rose Red wouldn’t be left out in the cold. This story wasn’t going to venture in to the land of sister rivalry, that was not what it was about. But I for one can easily see it’s possibilities of going there- but maybe I’m just being cynical 😉
Also these sisters had a relation with a little angry dwarf- this is where Rumple enters in to the story, he probably had something to do with why the sisters, Eva and Cora ended up at eachothers throats, so to speak.January 13, 2013 at 12:39 pm #168128MyrilParticipant@medchen wrote:
Not confusing them, just bending the Snow White and Rose Red story a bit 😀 I know everyone was all “happy happy, we’re all friends” in this tale. But lets face it- happy happy ..is a bit boring.
These two sisters both befriended a bear that turned out to be a prince. Snow White married the Prince and Rose Red had to ‘settle’ for the brother, who wasn’t even a part of the fairytale till the end, where he was needed so that Rose Red wouldn’t be left out in the cold. This story wasn’t going to venture in to the land of sister rivalry, that was not what it was about. But I for one can easily see it’s possibilities of going there- but maybe I’m just being cynical 😉
Also these sisters had a relation with a little angry dwarf- this is where Rumple enters in to the story, he probably had something to do with why the sisters, Eva and Cora ended up at eachothers throats, so to speak.Alright, but I would call that bending the tale a lot. There is not a hint of jealousy between the two in the fairy tale. As much as a story can be changed, I prefer to stick to the core of the characters, in this case the core of the sisters is being good, loving and caring persons. Doubt they would lose it that much even with someone like Rumple involved. Just can’t see Cora in any of them.
And there are enough fairy tales of jealous sisters, half-sisters, step-sisters. Let’s say, I find it nice, that Snow White and Rose Red for a change is not about jealous female relatives, so I am especially reluctant to let this fairy tale be changed into that direction. 😉
Of course, taking reality of European royal and noble houses in account, chances are high, that Cora and Eva are in some way related by birth or marriage. 😆
¯\_(?????? ?)_/¯
January 13, 2013 at 2:24 pm #168132RumplesGirlKeymasterI’ve asked that already in the other thread, but maybe it’s better to discuss it here: Why should Cora ever have given back the dagger if she once had it? Cora doesn’t struck me as a person caring much about deals or code of honor, she does, what she thinks she has to do. So, unless she had no idea, why the dagger is so important for Rumple, why should she have given it up? I mean, come on, controlling the Dark One, what a power that offers, power to become rich and powerful and get everything for the daughter. Not saying the story by no means could go that way, but then have to come up with some good explanation, why Cora hasn’t the dagger anymore.
Yeah, I can’t answer this. lol. I admit it’s a huge hole for this whole “dagger” theory. But I don’t think it’s his name either just because Rumple always introduces himself, which is strange. If Cora found the dagger, made the deal for magic she may have thought she’d be powerful enough to take him on once she gave back the dagger. And we do know she and Rumple are almost equal in power; Rumple admitted that their fight was a close one in “Into the Deep.” Cora could have kept the dagger and controlled the Dark One but it would have meant that there would always be one person more powerful than her, which I think would have occurred to her and trouble her. She could have killed him and become the Dark One, but Cora’s so vain that she may not have wanted to be green? (I’m stretching a bit here, I know 🙂 )
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"January 13, 2013 at 3:16 pm #168140antbeeParticipant@RumplesGirl wrote:
I’ve asked that already in the other thread, but maybe it’s better to discuss it here: Why should Cora ever have given back the dagger if she once had it? Cora doesn’t struck me as a person caring much about deals or code of honor, she does, what she thinks she has to do. So, unless she had no idea, why the dagger is so important for Rumple, why should she have given it up? I mean, come on, controlling the Dark One, what a power that offers, power to become rich and powerful and get everything for the daughter. Not saying the story by no means could go that way, but then have to come up with some good explanation, why Cora hasn’t the dagger anymore.
Yeah, I can’t answer this. lol. I admit it’s a huge hole for this whole “dagger” theory. But I don’t think it’s his name either just because Rumple always introduces himself, which is strange. If Cora found the dagger, made the deal for magic she may have thought she’d be powerful enough to take him on once she gave back the dagger. And we do know she and Rumple are almost equal in power; Rumple admitted that their fight was a close one in “Into the Deep.” Cora could have kept the dagger and controlled the Dark One but it would have meant that there would always be one person more powerful than her, which I think would have occurred to her and trouble her. She could have killed him and become the Dark One, but Cora’s so vain that she may not have wanted to be green? (I’m stretching a bit here, I know 🙂 )
It could be as simple as Rumpelstiltskin tricking her into getting it back. I just think it’s unlikely right now that they’ll follow the Miller’s Daughter story exactly by having Cora get out of giving up her baby to Rumpel by guessing his name. I know Henry Sr. doesn’t refer to him by name, and it’s certainly possible that he kept his name from people until Cora found out what it was, and then after that he just decides to tell everyone his name.
However, I agree that with RumplesGirl that Rumpel admitted that he and Cora are almost equal in power and that they fought a close fight once. He also seems very scared of her, and I think that maybe related to the Dagger. If she only guessed his name and got out of her deal, I don’t think he would be so concerned about her; although, I could be wrong about that. I also don’t know why they would possibly fight if Cora was just able to simply guess what his name was to get out of their deal like in the original Miller’s Daughter tale, and I think that there must have been something more that went on during the time that she first made the deal and when Rumpel decided to go a different route and just wait until Regina was older. Now I guess it’s possible that Cora only found out about the Dagger and saw his name to be able to guess it and didn’t actually get a hold of it to control him, and he’s scared that she even knows of its existence. I think it goes beyond though because of how frightened Rumpel is of her, and how something must have lead to them fighting each other magically at least one time.
January 13, 2013 at 3:28 pm #168141RumplesGirlKeymasterIt could be as simple as Rumpelstiltskin tricking her into getting it back. I just think it’s unlikely right now that they’ll follow the Miller’s Daughter story exactly by having Cora get out of giving up her baby to Rumpel by guessing his name. I know Henry Sr. doesn’t refer to him by name, and it’s certainly possible that he kept his name from people until Cora found out what it was, and then after that he just decides to tell everyone his name.
With regards to Henry Sr, I think it makes total sense that Cora never told him about Rumple. If she married Prince Henry based on the fact that she could spin straw into gold, you don’t tell your new husband that it was all a trick and that you made a deal with the Dark One. He could banish you, annul the marriage, ect. She deceived royalty, so I think we need to bear that in mind. (Just like Cinderella didn’t tell Thomas about her deal with Rumple)
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love" -
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