K&H Panel at D23 – August 10th (SPOILERS)

[kfchimera]

The reason PP does not mind if Rumple is in his territory is that Henry is all Pan really cares about, and he knows that is why Rumple is there. It is a turn back now threat, not a real offer of peace. It would be like Regina saying to Emma, you can stay in SB, as long as you stay away from Henry. Or like she did say, I am not worried because I know you are not serious enough to stay, you never stay anywhere.

[Phee]

I think it has to do with Bae because I don’t think it’s necessarily for this story to reach all the way back to Rumple’s childhood. I’m more interested in a Dark One vs Pan story-

Now that I’m on the team that suspects they may be brothers, I think Rumple’s childhood could be completely necessary. What I like about the brothers theory is that if that’s explained and resolved, it could bring a conclusion to the whole Curse arc, meaning the show could start to move on with new adventures, instead of constantly being tied to the Curse storyline for however many seasons it goes for. If it all began with PP resenting his brother, and everything that’s happened – from Rumple becoming the Dark One, to losing Bae, to the Curse, to Henry – it was all a means to get to an end that will be the final showdown between the two brothers, I think that would be an awesome explanation and climax for the story.

So one thing in the panel is, A&E say something like “It’s the jungle, and the Heart of Darkness,”. I can’t remember how it was phrased but immediately it put me in mind of the Joseph Conrad classic novel, “Heart of Darkness.” It might inspire some themes, in a similar way to Lord of the Flies that has been mentioned as a potential influence of the dynamics.

It reminds me of a throw-away line in Tiny, that humans took beans and exploited other worlds, as that novel is all about colonization/civilization versus natives….perhaps some tie in to the PP story with Tiger Lily?

Have seen that book mentioned in another thread before, (possibly by yourself), but confess to not knowing much about it. I’ll have to do some reading up on it, because it certainly sounds like something that could be influencing K&H.

As for Tiger Lily, who knows if they’ll even go there. I had once been thinking that maybe NL used to be a peaceful place, and Tiger Lily’s people lived there happily, until PP came along and wrecked it all. But that’s probably too close of a parallel to real life events, and they’d have to be very careful how they wrote a storyline like that.

[angiebelle]

The idea that Rumple and Pan are brothers sounds completely out in left field to me.  I haven’t seen anything that suggests such a thing.  But who knows?  I’m sticking to my he came to NL to seek Bae and then lost him again theory for the moment though.

[Phee]

Well the thing is that PP does traditionally have a younger brother. Peter’s been off with the fairies in Kensington Gardens, but decides to go home, and he sees his mother with a new baby, and feels all rejected and replaced, and that’s the reason he goes back to live with the fairies full time, and ends up in NL. So it wouldn’t surprise me at all if they give PP a brother, might actually be odd if they didn’t, considering that family angst is a major theme of the show. They’ll have to show how their version of PP became who he is, and if they have it relate to the Barrie version, they’ll have to include the sibling, and if they wanna tie that to present day events and the over all mythology of the show, Rumple is the perfect candidate IMO.

Here’s the part of Barrie’s story that mentions Peter’s younger brother…

”I wish now to go back to mother for ever and always,” they had to tickle his shoulder and let him go.

He went in a hurry in the end because he had dreamt that his mother was crying, and he knew what was the great thing she cried for, and that a hug from her splendid Peter would quickly make her to smile. Oh, he felt sure of it, and so eager was he to be nestling in her arms that this time he flew straight to the window, which was always to be open for him.

But the window was closed, and there were iron bars on it, and peering inside he saw his mother sleeping peacefully with her arm round another little boy.

Peter called, “Mother! mother!” but she heard him not; in vain he beat his little limbs against the iron bars. He had to fly back, sobbing, to the Gardens, and he never saw his dear again. What a glorious boy he had meant to be to her. Ah, Peter, we who have made the great mistake, how differently we should all act at the second chance. But Solomon was right; there is no second chance, not for most of us. When we reach the window it is Lock-out Time. The iron bars are up for life.

[nonnie]

7.) The Prophecy: The seer told Rumple: A boy… A young boy will lead you to him. But beware, Rumpelstiltskin, for that boy is more than he appears. He will lead you…to what you seek. But there will be a price. The boy… Will be your undoing.”
I always was suspicouis with her words. She didn’t say He will lead you to Bealfire or your son. No, she says: He will lead you to what you seek. Of course, Rumple was searching for his boy, but that is not all. He was searching his whole life to be respected, to be loved, to be a better man than his father, get a good life, to be brave, to proof himself, to have a family and find happiness, But until now he was not successful, but since Henry brought Emma to Storybrooke, the curse was broken, Belle appears, he tried to be a better man, he could not only find his son, but was also able talk with him and bring him back to his life and show that was more to him than just the Dark One, before he of course messed it all up again

I said last year at end of S2 that I thought the prophecy had been misinterpreted by Gold — Emma led Gold to Bae in New York… not Henry… he just tagged along.

I always said and thought that PP would be the cause of the prophesy fulfillment. PP will be the person that leads Gold/Rumple back to Bae in Enchanted Forest…..

I hope to be vindicated by my GF says I am all wet. we watch the show then call each other to dissect it the next day.

Nonnie

[Phee]

It’s been a while since I’ve had a close look at the prophecy…

Seer: You will be reunited with your son, and it will come in a most unexpected way.

Rumpelstiltskin: How?

Seer: A boy… A young boy will lead you to him. But beware, Rumpelstiltskin, for that boy is more than he appears. He will lead you…to what you seek. But there will be a price. The boy… Will be your undoing.

“That boy is more than he appears,” makes me think she’s referencing Henry. I know we haven’t seen PP yet, but from what we’ve heard about him, I’m guessing he’s not the type who tries to hide how powerful he is. In order for someone to be more than they appear, they need to initially appear unassuming. Dunno that that’s a word we’ll be able to apply to PP, but it can most definitely be applied to Henry.

Of course, Rumple was searching for his boy, but that is not all. He was searching his whole life to be respected, to be loved, to be a better man than his father, get a good life, to be brave, to proof himself, to have a family and find happiness, But until now he was not successful

Agreed, this is what, “he will lead you to what you seek,” is all about. Rumple can’t see that as part of the interpretation of the prophecy, because he’s too far gone. That’s why he believes he’s going to his doom right now. He’s lost sight of what he was truly seeking. The only way his eyes can be opened to that is through the Dark One being undone.

Henry is the bait in the trap, for want of a better term. He’s what’s drawing Rumple towards this destiny. “The boy will be your undoing,” may well be referring to PP. I do think that the actual undoing will likely involve some sort of final showdown between Rumple and PP.

Then again, maybe Henry has magic and that will be part of the process somehow? His mother is the most genetically magical human ever, so it wouldn’t surprise me at all if Henry inherited some of that. Maybe it’s something that’s due to kick in once he hits puberty, and that’s why this is the age PP needed him to be at when he was brought to NL?

Whichever of them ends up being directly responsible for the undoing will lead Rumple back to his son emotionally and completely. That being said, I do think Henry has already played a role in leading Rumple to Nealfire. He may not have done it directly, but if not for Henry having brought Emma to town, Rumple never would have even remembered his son, let alone been able to leave town to locate him.

[RumplesGirl]

The undoing could be a loss of Dark One’s power or now that I’m reading thorough these posts it could be that Rumple keeps his DO power but that he finally turns it toward good. He masters the darkness, more or less.

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[Slurpeez]

There is more to the prophesy than has been posted here. There were two split scenes in Manhattan of Rumple confronting the Seer in the woods. The first part went like this:

Seer: You want to find your son.

Rumpelstiltskin: Indeed. (Rumpelstiltskin releases the magical hold on her throat. Once free, the Seer does a deliberate set of hand movements.)

Seer: You will find him.

Rumpelstiltskin: How? And this time, don’t leave out a single detail.

Seer: It will not be an easy path. It will take many years… And require a curse. A curse…powerful enough to rip everyone from this land.

Rumpelstiltskin: Yes, yes, there’s more, I know it. Tell me.

Seer: You will not cast the curse… Someone else will. And you will not break the curse… Someone else will.

Rumpelstiltskin: Tell me!

Seer: I don’t know. Even my powers have limits.

Rumpelstiltskin: Ah, ah, ah. Not good enough, dearie…..

Then came the second part of the prophesy:

Seer: You will be reunited with your son, and it will come in a most unexpected way.

Rumpelstiltskin: How?

Seer: A boy… A young boy will lead you to him. But beware, Rumpelstiltskin, for that boy is more than he appears. He will lead you…to what you seek. But there will be a price. The boy… Will be your undoing.

(Finally, the Seer’s hand falls to the ground as she dies.)

Rumpelstiltskin: Then I’ll just have to kill him.

To me, the prophesy is really clear that Mr. Gold would be reunited with his son, that it would take a long time, that there would be a dark curse, that someone else would cast it (Regina), and that someone else would break it (Emma). What is less certain is exactly who this “young boy” is: PP or Henry? Henry has already led Rumple back to Bae indirectly by brining Emma to SB, who then broke the curse and led Mr. Gold to Neal. For all we know, Henry is the kid in question, and he could even be magical as the son of the product of true love, Emma.

Yet, if PP is the master puppeteer, as many have suspected, then perhaps PP is the one who had baby Henry brought to Mr. Gold who then “procurred” the baby for Regina. So, PP might be the one who is more than he appears. PP is only a boy, but he is very devious and even dangerous. So, evil comes in many forms, evidently.

"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy

[RumplesGirl]

I think the boy could be both, each of them will “undo” Rumple in different ways. With PP is might be more physical–taking away his Dark One’s curse or something. With Henry, it’s more emotional–Henry’s kidnapping is what leads Rumple to repent of his actions because now his son’s son has been affected. Henry’s kidnapping was like the final straw for Rumple.

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[Phee]

Crackpot theory that randomly crept into my head whilst watching Manhattan. Wasn’t sure which thread to post it in, because bits and pieces that it takes into consideration are being discussed all over the place right now. Anyway, this assumes that the dagger PP is typically depicted as having will be a thing in the show too, and that it will be a similar type of thing to PP as Rumple’s dagger is to him. It also assumes they are brothers, (so bear with me if you’re not on that team).

Two dagger wielding, dark magic beings.
PP wants to put an end to the dark powers.
PP and Rumple are brothers, so share blood.
As such, it must be someone with that same blood who is the key to ending their dark magic.
Bae didn’t qualify because he had no True Love mojo in his DNA and it’s gonna take magical mojo to get the job done.
Henry qualifies because he has True Love mojo from mom + Rumple and PP’s bloodline from dad.
Double WIN with his genetic makeup means Henry loses out and gets sacrificed. By being stabbed in his super duper Believer heart with both daggers.
Perhaps?

[Author]

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