Little Green Hood (Zelena is Pregnant)

[Slurpeez]

I agree but you know what’s interesting, looking at your list? Apart from Rumple, none of those fathers were villains. Whereas–with the exception of Snow and Emma–all the mothers on my list were considered villains. The one truly villainous father that was also villain of the arc (Pan) was never redeemed.

True. But I don’t think the term “sanctification” need only apply to villains. Everyone, including so-called heroes like Charming, have done some pretty terrible things (e.g. agreeing to drive Emma’s potential for darkness into baby Lily). Charming himself said he was in need of grace.

They really like setting up a female villain and then giving that female villain some sort of mother-role that eventually gets her to redemption.

Again, I don’t disagree insofar as there simply are way more female villains than there are male villains on this show. So, numerically speaking, there are simply going to be more mothers than fathers. Rumple is perhaps the only main male villain (other than Peter Pan). It’ll be interesting to see if the writers re-introduce Jafar as a villain to see whether or not they try and “redeem” him through fatherhood. If Jafar turns out to be Lily’s dad, I will laugh so hard, especially if Rumple dies. Jafar turning over a new leaf for his long-lost daughter Lily, would make Jafar-Lily into the new Rumple-Baelfire dynamic.

But I do find it interesting that the writers feel the need to give Maleficent and Zelena some sort of maternal role to try and make us sympathize with them. Cruella, by contrast, never embraced motherhood and abandoned Lily, and yet remained the only truly unsympathetic female character (other than Zelena, thus far).

[RumplesGirl]

Milah is an interesting exception

Milah is a very interesting exception, and I wonder if she’s an exception because her story is really peripheral to the more (male dominated) story of Rumple, Hook, and Baelfire. She only gets slightly (very slightly) redeemed in that Hook mentions to Bae that Milah did want to go back for her son and that they often talked about it. So even when her Good Mother card does come up, it isn’t from her perspective, it’s from her male lover’s.

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[RumplesGirl]

Again, I don’t disagree insofar as there simply are way more female villains than there are male villains on this show. So, numerically speaking, there are simply going to be more mothers than fathers.

That’s true too of course. But it’s that every female villain (the major arc ones) gets the same story: some sort of rejection or ill treatment from a man (and as I pointed out, a man who gets to more or less walk away unscathed, the exception is Rumple and that’s largely because he’s core cast) and then redemption through motherhood. If it weren’t every major female villain**, then it might be nothing but it is pattern–either lazy writing or honestly thinking that motherhood is the key to a woman’s salvation.

** = I’m leaving Ursula and Cruella out of this mostly because they turned out to be side villains more than major ones. Mal is the real Queen of Darkness in this years arc.

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[Slurpeez]

I would like to pose a follow-up question. Is there a way for any character, whether male or female, to be redeemed other than parenthood? I suppose redemption can come from romantic love, too, according to the writers. But more broadly, is there a way to be good again other than parenthood, or even romance? Are there any characters who will seek redemption for a reason besides other people? Are there any characters who seek redemption just for the sake of wanting to be better people themselves?

"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy

[RumplesGirl]

I would like to pose a follow-up question. Is there a way for any character, whether male or female, to be redeemed other than parenthood? I suppose redemption can come from romantic love, too, according to the writers. But more broadly, is there a way to be good again other than parenthood, or even romance? Are there any characters who will seek redemption for a reason besides other people? Are there any characters who seek redemption just for the sake of wanting to be better people themselves?

Quote

Is there a way? Yes. By choosing to be better. That’s real redemption, in which you simply choose to be the best version of yourself, by making amends, and trying to not make the same mistakes you once made. It’s actually really dangerous to say that you’re only being good for the sake of one person–be it a child or a romantic partner. Living for other people is a slippery slope because people leave, people disappoint, and it’s really unfair to put your redemption and your path back from your villainy (in the case of our show) on the shoulders of another person.

This is not to say that the person in question should be alone or that children and romance cannot play a role, but it should not be THE role. Redemption starts from within.

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[Slurpeez]

Is there a way? Yes. By choosing to be better. That’s real redemption, in which you simply choose to be the best version of yourself, by making amends, and trying to not make the same mistakes you once made. It’s actually really dangerous to say that you’re only being good for the sake of one person–be it a child or a romantic partner. Living for other people is a slippery slope because people leave, people disappoint, and it’s really unfair to put your redemption and your path back from your villainy (in the case of our show) on the shoulders of another person.

Yes, of course. But on the show, I was struggling to think of a character who intentionally chose to be good just for the sake of it. Was there ever a character who wanted to pursue righteousness just because they wanted to be better people? I suppose Archie. I also suppose Graham/the Huntsman is the best example. He was tasked with killing Snow White, but he instead spared her, simply because it was the right thing to do. He then let Prince Charming go, despite the consequence of facing the Evil Queen’s inevitable wrath. The huntsman got nothing out of defying the Evil Queen except the the knowledge of knowing he did the right thing, to hell with the consequences (in his case, being forcibly raped and murdered by Regina). Belle and Baelfire also chose to sacrifice themselves for the greater good, without expectation of self-gain. But then again, they were never villains, so choosing goodness just came naturally to them.

"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy

[RumplesGirl]

Was there ever a character who wanted to pursue righteousness just because they wanted to be better people?

I would have said Snow up until this season. But then again, she wasn’t exactly a villain until 4B.

I think the answer to your question is: no.

 

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

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