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Third time’s the charm and she’s again gonna be a mother to a child she’s not the biological mother of, but this time she knows where the baby came from from the getgo (no parentage surprises like with Henry). And she can make the choice to love the child despite having it thrust upon her by deeds committed by one of her evil family members (like how she ended up as a mother to Snow).
If they go with this, it actually also can compensate for Zelena’s own abandonment by Cora, and sort of continues with the theme of the firstborn being either abandoned or taken away and ending up with a different set of parents (Emma, Lily, Zelena, Bae, … am I missing anyone?)
[adrotate group="5"]Is there any good way to resolve this?
The best answer is probably that Zelena was lying all along but that is starting to seem less likely given TVLine (but still possible) but also the amount of head scratching it would cause us (what was Zelena’s end game if she’s not really pregnant?)
Option B: RH stays with Zelena because “baby.” That’s…an interesting (not really the word I want to use…) choice. His code and honor dictates that he has to stand by the woman who, basically, raped him and is carrying his child that she fully intended to use as a means to get him to stay with her. Again…interesting choice.
Option C: If somehow the Villains do win, but then the heroes manage to fix “the thing” the Villains do, does that mean that Zelena’s baby goes POOF because the wrongs have been righted by the heroes? And does that mean that the show, basically, magically aborted a fetus?
Option D: RH chooses Regina, but Zelena is allowed to live and have her baby with the understanding that RH and Regina will raise the child (because I’m sure that won’t cause Zelena to become even more Green). Because honestly, do we want Zelena raising this kid? Or does she get temporary visitation?
I dunno. If the pregnancy is real, then the writers have really dug themselves a hole.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"If they go with this, it actually also can compensate for Zelena’s own abandonment by Cora, and sort of continues with the theme of the firstborn being either abandoned or taken away and ending up with a different set of parents (Emma, Lily, Zelena, Bae, … am I missing anyone?)
Don’t forget David’s twin brother, James, who was raised by King George.
Is there any good way to resolve this?
No, unless it’s a fake-out.
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
If the pregnancy is fake, will Zelena steal a baby when it comes time to deliver?
Twitter - @Milkglass123
But really, if Robin wasn’t able to pick up on the fact that something is seriously off with “Marian”
Robin did pick up that something was off with “Marian” when she told him to let Gold die in Heart of Gold. Regina telling him that Marian was really Zelena should’ve made him think of that and realise Regina was telling the truth. At the very least, Robin should’ve been confused and puzzled by what Regina was telling him, not accusing her of lying and trying to break him and “Marian” up. Regina’s actions in 4A do not add up with what Robin is accusing her of. Robin just comes across as an idiot.
Is there any good way to resolve this?
No. Even if Zelena was lying and the pregnancy was none existent, it’s Robin’s behaviour that compounds the situation.
In 4A, Robin used his “code of honour” as a reason for not leaving Marian yet the moment Marian was freezing to death, Robin started pursuing Regina despite her protest and he even threw out his code so he could have crypt-sex with her.
In 4B, Regina shows up telling him that Zelarian isn’t really Marian but Zelena and that he needs to grab Roland and come with her to be safe, so Robin accuses her of lying and being jealous and trying to split him and “Marian” up and his code of honour prevents him from leaving Zelena because of the pregnancy.
Had Robin’s “code of honour” been consistently applied throughout his time on the show then you could see why he he’d be reluctant to leave because of the baby. However, Robin has been shown to throw out his code the moment it suits him not to have it, so why can he not do that now?
Option B: RH stays with Zelena because “baby.” That’s…an interesting (not really the word I want to use…) choice. His code and honor dictates that he has to stand by the woman who, basically, raped him and is carrying his child that she fully intended to use as a means to get him to stay with her. Again…interesting choice.
See above. Robin throws out his code when it suits him not to have it. Example: Crypt-sex with Regina whilst his wife was freezing to death. Why does it matter to him so much right now? Sometimes I actually wonder if he wants to commit to Regina. He wants all the sexy fun times with her but when it actually comes to leaving someone to be with her, he uses his code as an excuse not to.
Option C: If somehow the Villains do win, but then the heroes manage to fix “the thing” the Villains do, does that mean that Zelena’s baby goes POOF because the wrongs have been righted by the heroes? And does that mean that the show, basically, magically aborted a fetus?
I don’t think this option would go down well with the audience at all. When the solution to this OQ obstacle is “Let’s just kill off the baby. Ta da, problem solved.” It’s also pressing on a hot button issue. Abortion shouldn’t be seen as an easy-fix solution to the problem, it’s essentially killing Neal to resolve the CSF triangle again but worse.
Option D: RH chooses Regina, but Zelena is allowed to live and have her baby with the understanding that RH and Regina will raise the child (because I’m sure that won’t cause Zelena to become even more Green). Because honestly, do we want Zelena raising this kid? Or does she get temporary visitation?
I think this would be a horrible solution. It’s essentially “your baby or your life”. OQ can’t be even considered heroes if they say to a mother “give us your baby which we’ll raise as our own and it won’t know who you are and you can live. If you don’t we’ll kill you”. Regardless of what Zelena’s done, the baby is still hers and look what happened last time a baby was taken away from their villain mother by the “heroes”. The Lily story is basically why this option is not a good idea.
If the pregnancy is fake, will Zelena steal a baby when it comes time to deliver?
I think if the pregnancy is fake, Zelena will fake a miscarriage then guilt-trip Robin with a “This is your fault, you wanted this!” because why wouldn’t the writers reduce what is a genuinely traumatising experience into an evil scheme for the sake of plot?
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixI don’t think this option would go down well with the audience at all. When the solution to this OQ obstacle is “Let’s just kill off the baby. Ta da, problem solved.” It’s also pressing on a hot button issue
I agree but after 4 years of reading A and E’s understanding of the more hot button issues on their show (ie: Regina didn’t rape Graham because we never saw them have sex on screen….) I could totally see them doing this (erasing the baby through magically altered timelines) and saying that it was not “aborted” it was just “written out of existence when the villains do “a thing.”” They actually set up that idea in S3B with Zelena wanting to erase Regina (and thus Emma and Henry) from existence. For the writers it wasn’t murder so much as they were never there to begin with in this new altered timeline. I remember us having moral arguments over that as well. (shocking, I know)
If Zelena is lying (the best option here) then it’s just a bad plot line pulled directly from daytime TV.
If Zelena is NOT lying and there really is a baby then any direction the show takes this is probably going to be…not good.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Robin did pick up that something was off with “Marian” when she told him to let Gold die in Heart of Gold. […] Regina’s actions in 4A do not add up with what Robin is accusing her of. Robin just comes across as an idiot.
Yup. I think you write in another thread that he is constantly flip-flopping on both his code, and on the apparent internal logic of his actions. This is what I was trying to point out — the way Robin is currently written is that he is either oblivious (bad enough), or has a kind of “wants to have the cake and eat it too” mentality, whereby he wants to, essentially, have an affair on the side, but doesn’t want to commit and break up his “marriage.” In fact, this is really a common daytime TV trope, isn’t it? Just as the guy is about to walk out, the wife gets pregnant. Sure, we have the additional twist of the wife not being the wife, but if the pregnancy is real, then the moral quandary stands.
I agree but after 4 years of reading A and E’s understanding of the more hot button issues on their show (ie: Regina didn’t rape Graham because we never saw them have sex on screen….) I could totally see them doing this (erasing the baby through magically altered timelines) and saying that it was not “aborted” it was just “written out of existence when the villains do “a thing.””
[rant]
OUAT is actually kind of all over the place with its moral scandals, which is I think why the fanbase ends up being so divided — people seem to interpret cues for moral outrage differently. And normally, this division would be just fine, and make for interesting debates. But it doesn’t help that the same exact issue or scenario is, in one case, at the center of the narrative, and discussed, and in other cases treated either in a cavalier way, or simply backgrounded. This applies to various scenarios where consent is an issue, whether in the case of statutory rape as with Graham, the Zelerian debacle, or the various instances of heart removal, child disposal, or magical transfer of this or that. Depending on who the character is, and I think how A&E feel about them, some of these consent issues are explored, merit screen and script time, and are otherwise at the forefront of the conversation – cue audience outrage (say, the Zelena problem, Rumple/Hook heart stuff, Snowing and Lily), while others seem to simply be treated with a shrugging non-issue attitude (Regina/Graham, Regina/Belle heart removal… We’ll see if Zelena’s baby, if real, gets redacted).
As a side note, someone — I think @PriceofMagic — brought up the question of the ship that has sunk for most of the fandom but keeps sailing on the show, vs I guess the ship that sinks on the show for no other reason than the plot demands it. To me, it feels like A&E have increasingly become tone-deaf to this distinction. I wonder what will be OQ’s fate in this department. I think OQ will eventually happen, but sadly at the expense of wringing all logic or likability out of Robin’s character in order to fulfill “bold” and “exciting” plot twists. There are other ways of portraying relationship drama. But, consistently, rather than explore the complicated but subtle problems of unequal relationships — which actually is an important theme in fairy tales, and was there in S1 — the writers now consistently go for the loud (and somewhat lazy) soap plots. I don’t know, maybe this is a question of taste and what audience they think they’re reaching — has OUAT’s viewer demographic shifted this much over the years?
[/rant]
See above. Robin throws out his code when it suits him not to have it. Example: Crypt-sex with Regina whilst his wife was freezing to death. Why does it matter to him so much right now? Sometimes I actually wonder if he wants to commit to Regina. He wants all the sexy fun times with her but when it actually comes to leaving someone to be with her, he uses his code as an excuse not to.
He threw out his code/honor one time for love. Every other option he has taken has aligned with it. That makes it an exception not a rule. If we get anything from this plotline it would be that Robin depends on his ‘code’ too much, to the detriment of his family even.
If he decided from the beginning to follow his heart and not his honor, Zelena’s plan would have been DOA.
Robin did pick up that something was off with “Marian” when she told him to let Gold die in Heart of Gold. Regina telling him that Marian was really Zelena should’ve made him think of that and realise Regina was telling the truth. At the very least, Robin should’ve been confused and puzzled by what Regina was telling him, not accusing her of lying and trying to break him and “Marian” up. Regina’s actions in 4A do not add up with what Robin is accusing her of. Robin just comes across as an idiot.
While I’m not going to defend the poor way in which Robin’s character has been written, what you wrote about him comes across to me as victim blaming. Robin’s reaction was one of disbelief, but then again, the situation is almost beyond belief. Zelena was magically impersonating Robin’s deceased wife, and she is reportedly carrying his child. None of that is normal, even for someone from the Enchanted Forest. Robin’s reaction may not have been the reaction Regina had been hoping for, but Robin was certainly the victim of Zelena raping him. Pointing the finger at Robin for not knowing better isn’t helpful. Even men can be victims of rape (something which isn’t really acknowledged in the wider culture or media). Regina herself is a rapist of Graham, so it seems like Regina has failed to understand that what Robin is experiencing now may be the equivalent of the type of post-traumatic shock that many rape victims experience. (And don’t count on A&E ever to acknowledge that both Graham and Robin were sexually victimized by Regina and Zelena, respectively).
Maybe Regina was hoping for a more immediate response of disgust from Robin in reaction to what Zelena did, but that is not necessarily how victims of sexual abuse react. Robin not knowing how to react, and even refusing to believe the seemingly impossible that he could’ve been so duped, doesn’t seem so unreasonable. Robin even coming to the defense of his rapist, whom he believes is carrying his child, doesn’t sound so crazy when you read about reports of Stockholm Syndrome. Robin was tricked and violated in the worst possible way by the most manipulatively shrewd villain yet, and he believed this woman was his wife. Plus, Robin knew something Regina didn’t (i.e. the pregnancy, whether real or not). Even if Robin sensed something was off (which he did), he probably never suspected Marian was really Zelena. It probably just never occurred to him, and pointing the finger at him and saying he should’ve known better just comes across like blaming a rape victim for allowing himself or herself to be taken advantage of, when really, Zelena is the only one to blame.
See above. Robin throws out his code when it suits him not to have it. Example: Crypt-sex with Regina whilst his wife was freezing to death. Why does it matter to him so much right now? Sometimes I actually wonder if he wants to commit to Regina. He wants all the sexy fun times with her but when it actually comes to leaving someone to be with her, he uses his code as an excuse not to.
While Robin may not always listen to his code of honor, he does have one. He went against his better judgement when he committed what he believed was an extra-marital affair with Regina (which it turned out not to be), but he seems to have been very conflicted both before and after having sex with Regina. I think Robin really would’ve committed to Regina had it not been for “Marian” nearly dying from the Snow Queen’s curse. (If Robin hadn’t gone with “Marian” people would’ve decried Robin as a wife-killer, so it was a no-win situation). Yet, just because he violated his code before does not mean he would be willing to do so when it comes to fate of one of his children. He was not willing to let “Marian” die, and he certainly wouldn’t want his unborn child to suffer. His code matters now more than ever, because Robin believes Zelena is carrying HIS CHILD, who is an innocent here. I don’t think Robin was choosing Zelena over Regina so much as he was putting his child first (something a good parent should do). Robin believes that he owes it to his child not to abandon him or her, no matter the chilling circumstances surrounding the conception. The only way to ensure his unborn child survives is to take care of Zelena until she gives birth. So Robin not immediately abandoning the mother of his child makes sense when one realizes Robin is not the sort of man to abandon his child, which is exactly what Zelena was counting on. Robin may not make great decisions when it comes to choosing a partner, but he is a good father to Roland, and now, this second (real?) child.
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
I’m just waiting for that soap opera moment where Rumple is readying himself to kill Zelena, but just before his fatal blow she turns round and in her terror declares; “You can’t kill me! The baby’s not Robin’s, it’s yours!”
Dun dun dun!!!!!!!!!!!!
"so there’s this new show….."
"there’s lesbians in it"
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