Little Green Hood (Zelena is Pregnant)

[WickedRegal]

@Slurpeez All the applause gifs in the world for that post! Resisting the urge to do a gif spam!!

[nevermore]

While I’m not going to defend the poor way in which Robin’s character has been written, what you wrote about him comes across to me as victim blaming. Robin’s reaction was one of disbelief, but then again, the situation is almost beyond belief.

I can’t comment as to the intent of the original post obviously, but I think the way I read @POC’s critique is precisely based on the inconsistencies in Robin’s characterization. In other words, it isn’t that Robin the fictional character should be blamed for what happened to him — what Zelena did to him is utterly utterly vile. He’s in an impossible, grotesque situation. But how he is written and portrayed — so the combination of his lines, and the acting — make him come across as simultaneously passive-aggressive and morally inconsistent (preachy one minute, lost the next). In other words, the writing is such that it relies too much on viewer generosity and putting the character in an awful situation to produce sympathy, instead on character-driven likability. Although, again, maybe this is another case of unreliable narration.

I’m just waiting for that soap opera moment where Rumple is readying himself to kill Zelena, but just before his fatal blow she turns round and in her terror declares; “You can’t kill me! The baby’s not Robin’s, it’s yours!” Dun dun dun!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Felie]

You know what I’ve realized? I’m not watching it for the characters anymore, or the fantasy, or the story lines. I’m just watching to see if they can top themselves in the ludicrous department. Let’s face it, it’s not the show we all fell in love with. Now it’s just a soap opera but with fantasy characters instead of your average working class Eastender XD

I want Zelena’s baby to be Rumples’. I want it to be, like, the worst evil thing this show has ever seen, and they should just go for gold now because I’m all for it #GoBigOrGoHome!!!!! Let’s see where the ride takes us. Let’s see how off-the-wall this show can really get before it gets canceled.

"so there’s this new show….."
"there’s lesbians in it"

[Slurpeez]

Slurpeez wrote: While I’m not going to defend the poor way in which Robin’s character has been written, what you wrote about him comes across to me as victim blaming. Robin’s reaction was one of disbelief, but then again, the situation is almost beyond belief.

I can’t comment as to the intent of the original post obviously, but I think the way I read @POC’s critique is precisely based on the inconsistencies in Robin’s characterization. In other words, it isn’t that Robin the fictional character should be blamed for what happened to him — what Zelena did to him is utterly utterly vile. He’s in an impossible, grotesque situation. But how he is written and portrayed — so the combination of his lines, and the acting — make him come across as simultaneously passive-aggressive and morally inconsistent (preachy one minute, lost the next). In other words, the writing is such that it relies too much on viewer generosity and putting the character in an awful situation to produce sympathy, instead on character-driven likability. Although, again, maybe this is another case of unreliable narration.

I totally get why Robin’s inability to choose between Regina and “Marian” makes him seem about as likable as David Noland, who was unable to choose between Mary Margaret and his “wife” Kathryn. Robin Hood in S4a was less than decisive when it came to feeling honor-bound towards the woman he thought was his wife and following his heart (feeling romantic love for Regina). He seemed to flip-flop a lot, because he didn’t seem to know what the right thing to do was. However, this time around is different, since I don’t think Robin was so much choosing “Marian” as he was choosing his unborn child. He thinks he’s doing the right thing by choosing his child. I think if the situation were reversed and it were Regina having to choose between Henry and Robin Hood, I think we all know (or at least hope) that Regina would choose Henry. A parent’s love is often said to be the greatest form of love–even greater than romantic love. I think Regina is going to have to face this very realization and difficult choice herself in the coming weeks if and when her story gets rewritten. If the Author rewrites her story such that she met Robin Hood in that tavern, then that would mean she never would’ve adopted Henry. So Regina is going to have to choose whether to put her child first, the same way that Robin is currently having to put his unborn child first.

You know what I’ve realized? I’m not watching it for the characters anymore, or the fantasy, or the story lines. I’m just watching to see if they can top themselves in the ludicrous department. Let’s face it, it’s not the show we all fell in love with. Now it’s just a soap opera but with fantasy characters instead of your average working class Eastender XD

Totally agree. Regina and Zelena being “sister wives” as well as actual sisters is about as soap opera as it gets. It’s not good writing.

"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy

[Felie]

Totally agree. Regina and Zelena being “sister wives” as well as actual sisters is about as soap opera as it gets. It’s not good writing.

It’s mega entertaining though XD

"so there’s this new show….."
"there’s lesbians in it"

[nevermore]

A parent’s love is often said to be the greatest form of love–even greater than romantic love. I think Regina is going to have to face this very realization and difficult choice herself in the coming weeks if and when her story gets rewritten. If the Author rewrites her story such that she met Robin Hood in that tavern, then that would mean she never would’ve adopted Henry. So Regina is going to have to choose whether to put her child first, the same way that Robin is currently having to put his unborn child first.

Yes, this is actually a great way to reframe the issue. Although I’m still squeamish about the idea of using a baby as, essentially, a plot device. I would have liked to maybe see them explore Robin’s relationship to Roland instead — I mean, the poor boy just had his mom turn into the resident Boogyman (boogywoman? boogyperson?) I’d say older child with now obviously dead mom should take priority over everything else, including OQ, “Robina” (sorry) or anything else. But, oh well.

I want Zelena’s baby to be Rumples’. I want it to be, like, the worst evil thing this show has ever seen, and they should just go for gold now because I’m all for it #GoBigOrGoHome!!!!! Let’s see where the ride takes us. Let’s see how off-the-wall this show can really get before it gets canceled.

I’d be very concerned about the child’s likelihood of developing a very serious skin condition with that particular pairing. O_o

 

 

[PriceofMagic]

While I’m not going to defend the poor way in which Robin’s character has been written, what you wrote about him comes across to me as victim blaming. Robin’s reaction was one of disbelief, but then again, the situation is almost beyond belief. Zelena was magically impersonating Robin’s deceased wife, and she is reportedly carrying his child. None of that is normal, even for someone from the Enchanted Forest. Robin’s reaction may not have been the reaction Regina had been hoping for, but Robin was certainly the victim of Zelena raping him for his seed. Pointing the finger at Robin for not knowing better isn’t helpful and perpetuates blaming victims of rape instead of the rapist. Even men can be victims of rape (something which isn’t really acknowledged in the wider culture or media). Regina herself is a rapist of Graham, so it seems like Regina has failed to understand that what Robin is experiencing now may be the equivalent of the type of post-traumatic shock that many rape victims experience. (And don’t count on A&E ever to acknowledge that both Graham and Robin were sexually victimized by Regina and Zelena, respectively).

Maybe Regina was hoping for a more immediate response of disgust from Robin in reaction to what Zelena did, but that is not necessarily how victims of sexual abuse react. Sometimes people who’ve been sexually abused actually defend their abusers. Robin not knowing how to properly react, and even perhaps refusing to believe the seemingly impossible that he could’ve been so duped, doesn’t seem so unreasonable. Robin even coming to the defense of his rapist, whom he believes is carrying his child, doesn’t sound so crazy when you read about reports of Stockholm Syndrome. Robin was tricked and violated in the worst possible way by the most manipulatively shrewd villain yet, and he believed this woman was his wife. Plus, Robin knew something Regina didn’t (i.e. the pregnancy, whether real or not). Even if Robin sensed something was off (which he did), he probably never in a million years suspected Marian was really Zelena. It probably just never occurred to him, and pointing the finger at him and saying he should’ve known better just comes across like blaming a rape victim for allowing himself or herself to be taken advantage of, when really, Zelena is the only one to blame.

I’m not blaming Robin for what Zelena did to him (I even said in the other thread that this would be an opportunity to explore the female on male rape issue which isn’t as recognised as male on female rape). The thing that bugged me about this scene was that Robin accuses Regina of lying in order to split him and “Marian” up. There is no reason for why Robin should think this given Regina’s actions in 4A. I can totally see why Robin would be confused, puzzled, bewildered because of the seeming absurdity of it all but to accuse Regina of lying as a means to break him and “Marian” up seems OOC for him. It’s like the effect of what Regina told him was less “What do you mean? What’s going on?” and more “Oh I get it, you’re jealous!”

I’m not Regina’s biggest fan right now but I just found Robin’s response to her quite patronising, as if she’s got nothing better to do with her time than try and break up Robin and Marian.

While Robin may not always listen to his code of honor, he does have one. He went against his better judgement when he committed what he believed was an extra-marital affair with Regina (which it turned out not to be), but he seems to have been very conflicted both before and after having sex with Regina. I think Robin really would’ve committed to Regina had it not been for “Marian” nearly dying from the Snow Queen’s curse. (If Robin hadn’t gone with “Marian” people would’ve decried Robin as a wife-killer, so it was a no-win situation). Yet, just because he violated his code before does not mean he would be willing to do so when it comes to fate of one of his children. He was not willing to let “Marian” die, and he certainly wouldn’t want his unborn child to suffer. His code matters now more than ever, because Robin believes Zelena is carrying HIS CHILD, who is an innocent here. I don’t think Robin was choosing Zelena over Regina so much as he was putting his child first (something a good parent should do). Robin believes that he owes it to his child not to abandon him or her, no matter the chilling circumstances surrounding the conception. The only way to ensure his unborn child survives is to take care of Zelena until she gives birth. So Robin not immediately abandoning the mother of his child makes sense when one realizes Robin is not the sort of man to abandon his child, which is exactly what Zelena was counting on. Robin may not make great decisions when it comes to choosing a partner, but he is a good father to Roland, and now, this second (real?) child.

Whilst I agree that Robin wouldn’t leave his unborn child, it was his reaction towards Regina that bugged. We’ll have to see how this progresses next episode.

All magic comes with a price!

Keeper of Felix

[Slurpeez]

I’m not blaming Robin for what Zelena did to him (I even said in the other thread that this would be an opportunity to explore the female on male rape issue which isn’t as recognised as male on female rape). The thing that bugged me about this scene was that Robin accuses Regina of lying in order to split him and “Marian” up. There is no reason for why Robin should think this given Regina’s actions in 4A. I can totally see why Robin would be confused, puzzled, bewildered because of the seeming absurdity of it all but to accuse Regina of lying as a means to break him and “Marian” up seems OOC for him. It’s like the effect of what Regina told him was less “What do you mean? What’s going on?” and more “Oh I get it, you’re jealous!”

That’s not how I interpreted that scene, so I went back and re-watched it. If you watch it again knowing now what Robin knows (i.e. “Marian” is pregnant), his reactions make a lot more sense. It seems like there is at least one very good reason why Robin reacted like he did, especially after Regina threatened to tear apart “Marian” (whom Robin believed was his pregnant wife). Up until that point, Robin was acting bewildered, like he was struggling to comprehend how the seemingly fantastic claims Regina was making could possibly be true. But then Regina seemed to cross a line by threatening the woman who was still masquerading as Robin’s pregnant wife.

This is how that scene unfolded to me:

Robin: What’s this about?
Regina: Marian. We have to leave before she gets back. She’s not who she says she is.
Robin: What? [looks flabbergasted]
Regina: She’s my sister, Zelena.
Robin: The wicked witch? [looks gobsmacked and confused like he struggling to grasp how that could be] But, she’s dead! We all saw that. [looks dumbfounded, because even in the EF, that’s a stretch of the imagination]
Regina: Somehow she tricked us and went back in time! Robin, she went back, and she killed Marian. She took her place to get back at me.
Robin: No [looks like he’s struggling to process it] This is madness. [He shakes his head in disbelief and says it’s madness, because if what Regina says is true, that would mean he’s been having non-consensual sex with his wife’s murderer and that she conceived his child]
Zelena [disguised as Marian]: Robin, what’s going on? And what is she doing here?
Regina: It’s over, Zelena. I told him everything.
Zelena [still disguised as Marian]: What’s she talking about? Who’s Zelena?
Robin: Regina, you’re scaring Marian.
Regina: Good! Where’s the magic? You must have brought something to make this glamour work. Where is it Zelena? Show me or I’ll rip you apart until I find it! [at this point Regina is yelling at Zelena and threatening her]
Robin: Regina, that’s enough! [Robin steps in front of “Marian”, whom he believes is his pregnant wife, to protect her and the baby from Regina’s threats] Look, I know that this is hard, for all of us, but this is the new reality. I’m with her! I’m with Marian.
Zelena: Actually, not exactly. [reveals herself as Zelena]
Robin: [literally jerks backwards in astonishment and horror]
Zelena: Hello, dear husband. [mocking jeer]
Robin: No! [he’s horrified by the consequences of this revelation as his brain catches up with what his eyes are witnessing (i.e. his wife’s murderer has been raping him and has conceived his child]
Regina: Come on, Robin. We have to get you and Roland out of here.
Robin: [stares frozen in disgust and horrific bewilderment at Zelena]
Regina: Robin, get Roland and let’s go!
Robin: [stands paralyzed, unable to go because of the horrific truth that his rapist is the mother of his child]
Zelena: I think he wants to stay. [in a tone of condescending mockery]
Regina: Robin, what are you doing? [in a tone of increasing concern]
Robin: [looks back and forth between Regina and Zelena like he wants to throw up as he realizes he’s been tricked and violated by Regina’s sister, who is now pregnant by him]
Regina: Get your son, and let’s go!
Robin: No, I can’t! [still paralyzed]
Regina: Yes, you can.
Robin: I can’t. I’m sorry. [looks dejected and defeated, as he turns his gaze back to Zelena] I can’t leave her here.
Regina: What?
Zelena: Do you want to tell her? [Robin stares at Zelena in disgust] Or should I? [Zelena gloats over Regina’s misery]
Regina: Tell me what? [awkward silence, like Robin doesn’t want to say it, because it’s too terrible to be true] Robin?
Robin: [still struggling to say it or believe it himself, because it’s hurting the woman he loves. He shakes his head] She’s pregnant!
Zelena: [has a gloating look of glee over Regina’s misery]
Regina: [looks just as paralyzed, horrified and dumbfounded as Robin did when he realized Zelena was carrying his child]

Robin having a hard time believing Regina doesn’t seem so unreasonable or uncharacteristic to me, because of a couple of good reasons. First, the things Regina claimed are so fantastical, even for people well acquainted with magic, like Rumple. How could a spirit of someone everyone believed dead time-travel to the past and take the form of a person? Even by Enchanted Forest standards, that sounds really out there, since time-travel and resurrection are two of those “rules” of magic which are supposedly impossible to break (except they aren’t, as Zelena has proven).

Next, Robin has just been told that the woman he thought was his wife isn’t who she claimed to be. Robin’s rational brain is struggling to comprehend how the seemingly crazy things Regina claims could possibly be true. Plus, if what Regina says turns out to be true, that means horrific things must also be true (i.e. he’s been raped, and that the child Zelena is carrying is the product of rape, rather than the product of his love for Marian). Victims of rape don’t always act like one might expect them to; sometimes they even defend their rapists (i.e. like in Stockholm syndrome). Robin says it’s madness, perhaps as a form of denial or not wanting to believe he could’ve been so violated by his wife’s murderer. Instead, Robin’s rational brain jumps to the more “logical” explanation that it’s not true, and that’s it’s crazy talk to believe it. His rebuttal could be his coping mechanism, as a way of dealing with it, rather than facing the terrible truth.

Finally, Robin reacts the way he does when Regina threatens to tear apart “Marian” (whom he believes is pregnant, though Regina doesn’t know it yet). Robin physically shields the mother of his child, who at that point, his rational brain is still telling him is his wife. When pressed, his reaction is to try and protect his wife and child from a would-be threat (i.e. Regina raising her voice and threatening a pregnant woman). Would any rational brain conclude in the heat of the moment that a would-be attacker of a pregnant woman might actually be telling the truth? Not likely. His instinct to protect his child and mother of his child takes over. It’s an automatic human response known as fight-or-flight syndrome, and in this case, Robin’s choosing to fight if need be to protect a pregnant woman. It’s not until Zelena reveals her true identity that Robin’s rational brain seems to try and catch up with what his eyes are telling him.

"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy

[RumplesGirl]

’m not watching it for the characters anymore, or the fantasy, or the story lines. I’m just watching to see if they can top themselves in the ludicrous department.

Welcome to my world

 

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[Sweets]

Thank you So Much @Slurpeez for that post. I’ve been trying to articulate that thought all day and you did an amazing job.

[Author]

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