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It seems like true love and happiness on the show only happen if you’re under 40.
Except Hook is over 200-years-old, as is Rumple. The only difference is that Hook looks like he’s in his 30s, whereas Rumple looks to be in his 50s (despite both being centuries old). But I take your meaning.
Even with Philip and Aurora Mulan was a (possible) interloper in their relationship.
That’s true, but Mulan’s feelings for Aurora seemed to be unreciprocated. I think Aurora was and is still in love with Philip. They have canonically shared TLK before, and now they have a baby. I think Aurora regards Mulan more like a sister than anything else.
What I don’t think you can do successfully on this show is apply real-world standards of morality and ethics to the relationships shown on the show. Most of the issues the main couples face has to do with magic.
Even fantasy needs to be grounded in reality, especially on a show about fairy-tales, in the real world. The entire premise of the show since the pilot is about fairytale characters being trapped in our world, “where there are no happy endings” (to quote from the pilot). So the question now becomes: how do these characters go about getting their happy endings now that they’re here and what would that even look like? Emma, who grew up in ALWM, said it was her job to bring back the happy endings. What are those happy endings even supposed to look like in the real world?
I find that it is hard for me as a viewer to make true judgement calls on what it means to have a Happy Ending in a world where glamour spells, curses, and prophesies exist. But I think that makes Once enjoyable for me because it is so unrealistic.
Again, I see your point about the fantastical elements of the show like magic not being part of a real-world scenario, but even fantasy has to be grounded in reality for the audience to be able to relate. Things like curses and monsters are symbolic of real-world problems like natural disasters, wars, addictiosn or the breakdown of families, and how these fictional characters deal with these trials, magical or otherwise, is what makes them relatable to the audience. So, I think the audience can hold the characters to certain real-life standards, especially since SB is supposed to be set in the real world. As Jennifer Morrison has said:
Though it seems like curses have become Once’s go-to foil for our favorite heroes, star Jennifer Morrison is quick to defend the ABC series, pointing out that the show itself is a fairy tale. “Fairy tales are not literal,” she tells EW on the set of Once while filming next Sunday’s spell-centric episode. “They are very metaphorical, and they are very representative of other things.
“In order to be real with Emma, I have to look at it representationally,” she continues. “I see the curses and spells and all the crises that come our way—the snow monsters and witches and all those things—as representative of the things that come our way that are hard in life: illness, death, exams, fights with loved ones, breakups. All those things are, in real life, what would be a curse or spell in Storybrooke. Yes, we have to bond together to fight these major things, but it’s just like a family has to bond together to fight cancer, or deal with a death in the family, or a parent losing a job, or not getting into the school you want to.”
Still, Morrison recognizes that the excess of curses might make it seem like these characters are crazy for not leaving Storybrooke. “But that’s like saying we’re crazy in real life,” she says. “In real life, stuff comes your way and you have to find a way to survive and deal with it.
“The underlying message of the show is that you have to fight for the people that you love, because those are the people that are going to stand by you in those battles,” she continues. “That’s part of the appeal of the show. It is worth it every day to fight through those hard things, just like it’s worth it to fight through the curse or whatever in Storybrooke. Whether it’s a good battle or a bad battle, you’re going to fight together, and that’s what we all have to hang onto. That’s the only way I can see it. Otherwise, if you take it too literally, you’re like, ‘Well, this is kind of crazy.’”
Source EW.com
Did Jennifer Morrison just give us her take on the message of the show? She did. “The underlying message of the show is that you have to fight for the people that you love, because those are the people that are going to stand by you in those battles,” said Morrison.
So, if fighting for the people you love is the core message of the show, then how do we apply that to the romantic relationships, including the marriages, on the show? Does that mean Rumple should be fighting for Belle, despite her saying he’d already lost her? Does Belle morally need to accept Rumple back, despite being in a relationship with Will Scarlet now? What about when Robin Hood thought he was still married to “Marian” despite being in love with Regina? What about when Snow scarified her husband to save their child?
[adrotate group="5"]"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
It seems like true love and happiness on the show only happen if you’re under 40.
With the notable exception of Tamara and Neal, and we know how well that goes. Of course, that relationship doesn’t fit into the normative category defined by “white, heterosexual, under 40.”Oy.
I find that it is hard for me as a viewer to make true judgement calls on what it means to have a Happy Ending in a world where glamour spells, curses, and prophesies exist. But I think that makes Once enjoyable for me because it is so unrealistic.
Ok, but does that mean that the relationships themselves are completely unrealistic, and therefore must be judged based on an entirely different metric? Considering how much metaphorical ink is currently being spilled in the fandom over whether this or that ship is seaworthy, or whether this or that villain deserves to die (including on this forum, but not limited to it), it seems that none – or very few – of us are approaching OUAT from a morally relativist position. And I don’t think it’s E&A’s intent to sort of say “look, this is a totally different world/universe/culture/ what have you, so it can’t be judged through our own cultural lenses” (which is the move in a lot of sci-fi or speculative fiction more broadly. And personally, I think that would have been an interesting move for OUAT). Instead they are pretty dogmatic about a lot of the characters – just not the ones we might have expected at first. So it seems only fair to analyze what the apparently “unintended” morality looks like.
Ok, but does that mean that the relationships themselves are completely unrealistic, and therefore must be judged based on an entirely different metric? Considering how much metaphorical ink is currently being spilled in the fandom over whether this or that ship is seaworthy, or whether this or that villain deserves to die (including on this forum, but not limited to it), it seems that none – or very few – of us are approaching OUAT from a morally relativist position.
I don’t mean to imply that I can’t make any calls at all about the relationships on the show. It really was about the idea of a Happy Ending, which is a intrinsically fairy tale concept. For me the idea of a Happy Ending is unattainable because thats not how life works. So I do view things we would consider morally questionable in a different lens, such as murder, adultery, abandonment.
And for me the metrics are different. I love the concept of True Loves Kiss and fairy dust leading you to your soul mate, and being able to share a heart with your lover. The relationships on the show that do contain elements of the fantastic do hold more weight for me.
Oh. We’re….resurrecting this? Okay.
My stance remains the same: for Adam and Eddy love is meant as a catch all, cure all that conqueres everything from darkness to morality to common sense to decency to justice. They like the idea of love but refuse to play by any sort of realistic rules or morals.
They are more concerned with shiny and not heart.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"I feel like that could change with Rumbelle this season. After Rumple gets his AU happy ending and everything goes back to normal, I don’t see how Belle could take him back. If anything, I expect her to be more upset and pissed off with him than her reaction in the winter finale.
My stance remains the same: for Adam and Eddy love is meant as a catch all, cure all that conqueres everything from darkness to morality to common sense to decency to justice. They like the idea of love but refuse to play by any sort of realistic rules or morals.
Before S4, I would’ve agreed without question, but yeah, what about Rumbelle? It looks liked their relationship is well and truly over, like they’re never getting back together. We’ve yet to see the final outcome, but there was that little speech in “Unforgiven” made by Snow White to Regina, interlaid with scenes of Belle seemingly having moved on romantically with Will from Rumple. But has she really?
Snow White: Because when you betray the people you love, when you make them see the worst parts of you, what you’ve done changes everything. There’s no going back. You’ve shattered the bonds you’ve worked so hard to forge. The stronger those bonds once were, the more difficult they are to put back together, if they can be repaired at all.
I don’t necessarily agree with the above quotation, since I do think there is such a thing as forgiveness, but I do see how forgiveness might be taken the wrong way as condoning bad behavior. In the case of Snow, she was talking about her own fear of her relationship with Emma being shattered once Emma learned the truth of what Snow and Charming had done to Lily. While Emma did hold a big grudge for a few episodes, she did forgive her parents in the past episode. So if relationships between parents and their (adult) children can be reforged after a betrayal, the next question then becomes whether a marriage can be salvaged after a betrayal on the scale of what Rumple did to Belle. If a parent-child relationship can be reforged, can a marriage, and should it?
They are more concerned with shiny and not heart.
I agree with this statement.
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
So if relationships between parents and their (adult) children can be reforged after a betrayal, the next question then becomes whether a marriage can be salvaged after a betrayal on the scale of what Rumple did to Belle. If a parent-child relationship can be reforged, can a marriage? Should it?
I would say, both have to be judged and looked at differently. Your parents are not your spouse and your spouse is not your parent.
I get into fights with my parents and it takes me awhile to forgive them if they really hurt me, but eventually I do because despite that hurt, I still love them and live in the same house as them. (It even surprises me when they admit that they were wrong to treat me the way they did and accept their fault).
But the issue here is trust, specifically trust between a husband and a wife (Belle and Rumple). Rumple lied and manipulated Belle several times this past season, that I think it would be very hard for Belle to easily forgive that and let him back into her life.
Because who’s to say, if she did take him back, that he wouldn’t pull the same stunts next season? Trust is shattered. Rumple can say all he wants that he can change — but can he really?
I also feel, there has to be some kind of resolution to the relationship. There needs to be final closure, one way or another, instead of this break-up, get back together, break up again (lather, rinse and repeat).
If that closure is that they break-up permanently, I’m at the point now, where I would be completely fine with this.
Because I can’t find a reason to sympathize with and make excuses for him Rumple anymore. I do however, sympathize a lot with Belle at the moment and what Rumple’s constant lies and manipulations have done to her. Belle deserves Rumple’s respect, enough respect to know that it is not alright for him to continually hurt her for his own selfish needs and desires.
In Belle’s experience, this is not the first time Rumple has lied to her. He’s done it before. He kept stuff from her in season two, the only difference now (in 4A), was that he was purposely keeping her in the dark. Because he knew he was doing stuff that Belle would not approve of.
Everything Obis said.
"I could have the giant duck as my steed!" --Daniel Radcliffe
Keeper Of Tamara's Taser , Jafar's Staff, Kitsis’s Glasses , Ariel’s Tail, Dopey's Hat , Peter Pan’s Shadow, Outfit, & Pied Cloak,Red Queen's Castle, White Rabbit's Power To World Hop, Zelena's BroomStick, & ALL MAGICBecause who’s to say, if she did take him back, that he wouldn’t pull the same stunts next season? Trust is shattered. Rumple can say all he wants that he can change — but can he really?
In the case of Rumple, I agree that so long as he’s the dark one, he’s prone to relapse. I think the only way he could ever get clean would be to have his dark one curse undone and then for him to leave town, somewhere away from magic and all the crazy that is SB. The lure the dark magic is always going to be there for him so long as he lives in a town full of magic. He’d have to go totally cold turkey from magic to have any chance of ever “getting clean” from his addition. And even then, Belle might forgive him out of the goodness of her heart insofar as she doesn’t hold a grudge against him for the rest of her life, but she may never really trust him again, let alone re-enter into any sort of romance with him. I could see them making their peace, and Rumple wishing her happiness, even if it’s not with him. Yet, come to think of it, it seems we actually saw Rumple do this when he returned Belle’s heart and acknowledged Will would be the one to protect it from then on, but then Rumple turned right around and had the author write an AU. Belle will be Rumpe’s wife and cheerleader again in the AU, presumably against her will, so we’ll see how Belle reacts to that one when has her say again about the relationship.
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
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