MAJOR SPOILERS: Regina’s Mother and Rumpelstiltskin

[malchore]

What if their kingdom was destroyed in the ogre wars? From episode Skin Deep we know the ogre wars are still raging recently. (Recent in relation to the time when the big curse was enacted.) It was mentioned on one of the past podcasts; old Europe (in which these fairy tales are based) had many, MANY kingdoms. Each city had their own king, pretty much. So it’s not far fetched that Regina’s dad could have been another king.

As for Rumple involved in a lot of trades of children, one theme with him is trading children either for royalty (ala Prince James) or taking them. But the trade usual involves a royal.

[hjbau]

I keep wondering if Rumpel attacked the Ogre’s at some point and now they are working for him. I just thought it was strange that he could just stop the Ogre’s from attacking Belle’s village.

[malchore]

@hjbau wrote:

I keep wondering if Rumpel attacked the Ogre’s at some point and now they are working for him. I just thought it was strange that he could just stop the Ogre’s from attacking Belle’s village.

Yeah, good point. Rumple was quite blasé about stoping the ogres.

What I don’t get is why Rumple had any interest in Belle at all. She wasn’t a princess. He didn’t appear to have a romantic interest in her (at first; his feelings for her developed over time.) He made a point that money had no influence. All he wanted was a maid to clean his castle! What’s up with that!?

The premise of that episode is confusing to me now. I don’t like saying that because Skin Deep was written by Jane Espenson who also wrote my favorite episodes of Firefly and Caprica.

[hjbau]

I don’t know why Rumpel had any interest in Belle. Maybe he just wanted to hurt Belle’s father for some reason by taking away his only child. I wonder if he had other girls before Belle.

[Slurpeez]

@hjbau: I think you could be right, that Regina was speaking of losing her kingdom and no so much her magical power.

I posted this on another thread about Rumplestiltskin’s character analysis, but it ties over to the conversation going on here:

slurpeez108: Based on the Rumplestiltskin story, a poor miller boasted to a greedy king that his daughter could spin straw to gold. Rumple made the deal with the miller’s daughter: he’d spin straw to gold in exchange for her first born. The miller’s daughter married the king and bore a child. In order to save the child, she had to guess the imp’s name, and so sent her servant to discover it, thereby beating Rumple at his own game. If Regina is the infant from the story, perhaps the curse Rumple gave her is payback for escaping his domains as an infant. I like the idea, too, except that there are a few details that need to be squared away for it to fit.

Regina was a princess growing up before she married Snow White’s father. That would make her mother, Cora, a queen. Presumably, Regina’s father is the greedy king from the Rumple fairytale. Yet, we saw Henry Mills Sr., Regina’s father, and he really didn’t strike me as being very regal or very greedy. Instead, he was a humble valet, and not at all like the description of the king from the original Rumple fairytale. Perhaps Cora had an affair with her servant, Henry Sr, and was unfaithful to her husband, the king. Recall how Rumple told Regina that in order to enact the dark curse, she first had to sacrifice the heart of the thing she loved most: her father. If Henry Sr. was really the servant Queen Cora sent to spy on Rumple, and if Henry was Regina’s father, perhaps Rumple’s way of getting even was for Regina to kill her own father.

Also, if Henry Sr. was Cora’s servant, lover, and father of her child, that would make the king from the original story Regina’s step-father. We know that the king from the original Rumple story was very zealous for straw to be woven into gold. Who else have we seen who’s very zealous for gold? It’s King George, who demanded Prince James marry Abigail, King Midas’ daughter, to save the kingdom from financial ruin. What if he is the same king who married the miller’s daughter (aka Cora)? King George told Prince Charming he and his wife were unable to have children of their own, so they adopted. Perhaps King George, who was unable to father a child, was unkind to Regina, the illegitimate daughter of his unfaithful wife, Cora, which may be partially why Regina became hardened. (That would help to explain why Regina was such a rotten step-parent to Snow White). Perhaps King George arranged for Regina to marry King Leopold for money, like he tried to do with his adoptive son, Prince James and Princess Abigail.

Perhaps that’s how Regina’s mother, Cora, could be one-in-the-same as the miller’s daughter. Either that or Henry Sr. wasn’t Regina’s biological father, but perhaps her biological grandfather (aka Cora’s father–the miller from Rumple’s story).

"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy

[obisgirl]

@Midnight Dreary wrote:

@hjbau wrote:

There is a theory floating around that maybe Regina’s mother is the millers daughter that the original Rumpel story is about. That would make Regina’s mother queen and then Regina a princess. That would make Regina the child that Rumpel took or was supposed to take. I am not really sure about that story. That could explain their relationship. Maybe Rumpel taught the queen her magic.

I’ve always believed that Rumpelstiltskin was the one who gave Regina her power. I doubt she was born a witch and I’m pretty sure she’s human (hopefully). And I really like the theory of Regina’s mother being the Miller’s daughter. So, if we’re going to listen to that theory, then Regina’s rivalry with Rumpel was not something that she started, it was something her mother started. Looks like we have a multi-generational rivalry on our hands. 😯 😯 😯

That’s interesting. Maybe Cora killed Snow’s mother to ensure that the King would be looking for a new wife to play mother to his daughter?

@slurpeez108 wrote:

I think it’s interesting that in episode 2, Regina says to her father, Henry Sr:

Regina: But I can’t keep living like this. What Snow did to me, what she took from me. It’s eating me alive, Daddy. Her very existence mocks me. She must be punished.
Henry Sr: But, if the price is a hole that will never be filled, why do it? Stop worrying about Snow White, and start over. We can have a new life.
Regina: What kind of life? All I’ve worked for, all I’ve built will be gone. My power will disappear. They already think I’m nothing.

How is it that not enacting the curse would cause Regina’s power to disappear? Her power must be something that she gained, and not something she was born with. It’s still not at all clear what her back story is, except to say that her mother, Cora, may have taught her magic.

I get that feeling too, or maybe Regina resisted her mother’s influence at first until she finally gave in and realized that the only ‘true power’ was ‘dark magic.’ Kind of like Anakin in Revenge of the Sith.

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