Malcolm and Peter Pan

[RumplesGirl]

Names matter. They matter very much to Rumple. They have power. Does he believe this because his father taught him this with the doll, or is there more to it?

I think there is more to the story. At some point Rumple has to learn that Malcolm has begun to call himself Peter Pan. He tells Bae in 304, “his name is Peter Pan and we were quite close growing up” and now we know that Rumple has known all along that Peter was his papa. So I think there is still one more piece of this puzzle. Did Rumple ever go back to Neverland before he lost Bae?

[theoniongirl]

He also calls Pan a demon and makes it clear he knows Pan is capable of amazing, awful things. While Malcolm was certain NOT a good dad and broke Rumple’s heart, we saw no sign of those amazing, awful things in this episode.

Another thing I’m musing over: A few episodes ago, Pan asserted (and it seemed Rumple agreed) that killing him would also be the end of Rumble.

But why? It would mean killing his own father, and that’s awful, but why would it have that effect?

Or is there some connection between Pan and the Shadow and the magic of the Dark One after all?

---
“Though lovers be lost love shall not;
And death shall have no dominion.”
-- Dylan Thomas

[RumplesGirl]

Going back through Rumple/PP encounters now that we know about DaddyPan. PP has said these things to Rumple:

You’re nothing more than an unloved, lonely, lost boy.”

“After all, being abandoned is what you’re good at, isn’t it?”

“Everyone you’ve ever known has left, haven’t they? Like Bae’s mother Milah. Not to mention your own father.”

Wow. That first quote especially. (I rather hate MalcolmPan)

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[rumbelledearie]

Going back through Rumple/PP encounters now that we know about DaddyPan. PP has said these things to Rumple:

You’re nothing more than an unloved, lonely, lost boy.” “After all, being abandoned is what you’re good at, isn’t it?” “Everyone you’ve ever known has left, haven’t they? Like Bae’s mother Milah. Not to mention your own father.”

Wow. That first quote especially. (I rather hate MalcolmPan)

After last night’s ep I went back and re-watched those scenes from Nasty Habits. Malcolm/PP is a real piece of work 🙁

[kfchimera]

I think Pan sent Hook to meet Milah.

I do think there is a connection between the Dark One curse and Pan and the SB curse too.

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

[RumplesGirl]

I think Pan sent Hook to meet Milah. I do think there is a connection between the Dark One curse and Pan and the SB curse too.

Yes we still need to figure out why Pan knows *so much*

Someone has the gift of sight if it’s not him.

This is going to be crackish, but is there anyway Pan could “believe” everything into happening. He believed that the Ogres would invade, that Milah would fall in love with Hook, that the age limit for the war would go down, that Rumple would become the new Dark One? How does what you believe in NL manifest itself out in the other worlds? Does it manifest at all?

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[killianhookfan]

Yeah, I’m lost on why PP is so horribly evil toward Rumple . . . and everyone else for that matter.

So he recognized he was a terrible father and never should have been one in the first place because he didn’t want any responsibities – fine.  But he got what he wanted.  He went back to NL became a kid with no responsibilities again who could fly.  And when he was turned into PP he was at least somewhat emotional about having Rumple taken from him – he was teary eyed.

So how did he go from a terrible father who wanted to fly to literally despising his son and everyone else that he literally seems to spew venom when he speaks??

The spinsters had something to do with wanting to get Father of the Year to NL.  So did they specifically want dad to go to NL or did they just want him gone so they could get their hands on Rumple alone?

And the theory about PP knowing everything in the EF is interesting. Could he hate Rumple so much for some reason that he would specifically orchestrate things so that Rumple would end up married to someone who never loved him and then time things so that Milah would run away with Hook?  If he could time things so that Bae left NL in time to meet Emma, what else has he been behind and why??

Also, is this the first time magic has almost run out in NL?  Ripping someone’s heart out had to have originated from somewhere.  How do we know that Henry’s is the first heart that PP has taken?  What about Rumple and Neal’s heart?  Could he have needed their hearts to keep himself alive but now need the heart of the truest believer to remain immortal?  Rumple once told Smee that only the DO was immortal.

And did anyone notice that PP said “All rules are made to be broken” just like Rumple says “All magic comes with a price”?

[RumplesGirl]

Also, is this the first time magic has almost run out in NL? Ripping someone’s heart out had to have originated from somewhere. How do we know that Henry’s is the first heart that PP has taken? What about Rumple and Neal’s heart? Could he have needed their hearts to keep himself alive but now need the heart of the truest believer to remain immortal? Rumple once told Smee that only the DO was immortal.

I really wanna know this too. Has anyone else every tried to stay in NL and had this happen?

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[Keb]

Maybe little Rumple tried to go back to Neverland at some point to “save” his father; Pan’s reaction to Rumple in 304 was “Look at you, all grown up and the dark one…” which suggests they hadn’t met since Rumple was a boy. It’s possible that because Rumple was the price of Pan’s power, their lives were entwined from that moment–or possibly they were entwined later by whatever Rumple tried to do to get his father back.

I guess it’s possible too that the only power great enough to kill Pan would require Rumple to sacrifice his own life, and it could be just that simple…

But yeah, I think there’s more to it. More to their backstory and more to their link.

Also, the fact that Pan is so adamant about people following the rules of his games…yet he broke the rules to live in Neverland. So what does that ultimately mean, and will it play out as an actual thing (I hope I hope)?

Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing

[theoniongirl]

I just keep thinking about this episode. I really think the … entity … we’ve seen as Peter Pan is more than just Malcolm de-aged.

He was immature and sent his son away so that he could play out those childish dreams, yes … but he also had a tear in his eye when he sent Rumple away. That’s a poor father indeed, but one who could later say those incredibly awful things to his son? And sacrifice his own great-grandson? And play those demented games on everyone on the island? My main impression of Malcolm was simply immature. Not “a demon.”

I think what we’ve seen as Pan is a melding, for lack of a better word, of Malcolm de-aged and another entity … possibly the Shadow. Something far more evil. And as the years go by, it’s gotten more and more of a hold. So much so that the Malcolm core/personality is the merest … shadow.

---
“Though lovers be lost love shall not;
And death shall have no dominion.”
-- Dylan Thomas

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