Manipulative Mary Margaret

[jolly roger]

I couldn’t agree with obisgirl more.
All Mary did was kill an evil person who was spreading pain and suffering on innocent victims, so she could protect her loved ones. This reminds of historical people (I won’t name them) who had spread so much pain and suffering on innocent people, that there was no choice but to kill them because they couldn’t be stopped. This is what Snow did to Cora. Was it bad that Snow made Regina do it? Maybe. Was it evil? No. I feel bad that Regina unknowingly (at the time) killed her own mother, but she had to be stopped, and Regina wasn’t willing to do it so someone else had to.
I could not see one bit of good in Cora, and obviously Snow didn’t either otherwse she wouldn’t have killed and her tried to talk some sense into her instead.

So I don’t think that Snow is evil, a villian or manipulative. I think she is brave, loyal and selfless. She did what she had to do not only to protect her loved ones, but every other person in the town.
In my eyes, she’s a hero 🙂

[obisgirl]

There was a youtube comment I saw somewhere about when Daniel died, Regina was so scared of her mother that she projected her anger onto Snow. I think that still applies to Regina. Instead of feeling relieved that her controlling, manipulative mother isn’t a threat anymore, she’s back to projecting her anger and frustration on Snow.

[PriceofMagic]

I think what Regina is angry about isn’t so much that Cora is dead (though Regina probably would be angry at the Charmings about that), it is the fact that Snow used Regina to kill Cora by playing on her feelings of wanting to be loved by Cora.

Regina even acknowledges that Rumple tricked Snow into using her to kill Cora yet she doesn’t seem to have the same burning malice for him as she does for Snow. Could it be that, subconciously, Regina expected better of Snow? Rumple makes no excuses for his tricks and manipulations, it’s what he does, and Regina probably expected it of him whereas with Snow, Snow always professed about how good she was and that good will always win. Snow always seemed to have a high and mighty attitude towards the Evil Queen.

Snow didn’t just kill Cora, she used Regina to do it for her. Regina probably still holds Snow responsible for Daniel’s death (if Snow hadn’t told Cora about Daniel, Cora wouldn’t have killed, tthough it is arguable that Cora may have known about Daniel beforehand) and now Snow is responsible for the death of another person Regina loves. In Regina’s eyes, for someone who is supposed to be “good” that is an awful lot of bloodshed on Snow’s hands yet Snow is the one that added “evil” to Regina’s name.

All magic comes with a price!

Keeper of Felix

[astrawoid]

I personally don’t think Regina blames Snow because expects more from her. I think it’s just easier. It’s easier just to blame someone you already hate and someone you think of as being weaker than you and vulnerable. Regina doesn’t just want Snow to die, she wants her to suffer.

"We were happy."
"Because... it was born out of true love."

[PriceofMagic]

Regina may think Snow is being a bit of a hypocrite. Yes Regina already hates Snow, but Snow professing how good she was and pretending to give Regina the chance to have her mother’s love would just be adding fuel to the fire.

Had Snow killed Cora, Regina would have hated her, probably felt the urge for revenge, but it probably wouldn’t be to the intensity she has now. Snow used Regina to kill Cora and all under the disguise of “I just want you to have your mother’s love”. Snow made out she was trying to do something good for Regina.

Regina must have some expectations of Snow being good because she so readily believed her. Had Rumple said the same thing in Snow’s place, would Regina have so easily bought it? Or did Regina so easily buy it because it was Snow saying it?

All magic comes with a price!

Keeper of Felix

[astrawoid]

Oh, I’m sure Regina thinks Snow is a hypocrite. Especially now more than ever. And yes I think Regina believed Snow but she may have believed Rumple too, only in his case she would have expected an ulterior motive or some sort of trick. That’s what she didn’t expect with Snow because Snow has never stooped to their level or used their tactics. In that respect, Regina believed Snow was sincere when in fact she wasn’t. So sure, there was an expectation that Snow would be telling the truth but I still think there was more to it. Knowing how Snow has always professed to be pure of heart and seemed to have good intentions, coupled with Regina’s longing for her mother’s love, Regina believed Snow without question this time. I think, Regina wanted to believe Snow in this case as well. She wanted her mother’s love so much that she was willing to believe Snow without thinking their was something fishy going on. It would be easy in Regina’s mind to justify believing Snow since she normally doesn’t lie. But I think there has been times in the past that she hasn’t completely believed or trusted what Snow has said.

I also find it interesting that before all this occurred Regina and Snow had that conversation at Granny’s where Regina basically says that Snow is the one who added “evil” to Regina’s name and Snow responds by saying that good doesn’t do what Regina has done. But now Snow has dabbled in the same pool as Regina. So does Snow think of herself as “evil” now?

"We were happy."
"Because... it was born out of true love."

[PriceofMagic]

@astrawoid wrote:

I also find it interesting that before all this occurred Regina and Snow had that conversation at Granny’s where Regina basically says that Snow is the one who added “evil” to Regina’s name and Snow responds by saying that good doesn’t do what Regina has done. But now Snow has dabbled in the same pool as Regina. So does Snow think of herself as “evil” now?

I think Snow is conflicted on the type of person she is now. She doesn’t want to see herself as “evil” but she doesn’t think she can class herself as “good” anymore. The fact that she asked Rumple, someone who she classed as an “evil” last episode, how he lives with himself after all the bad things he did, shows that she now sees herself as not good.

All magic comes with a price!

Keeper of Felix

[nonnie]

SNOW added EVIL to Queen’s name because she was EVIL… actually Regina added it to herself when killed the girl … everything snowballed from there.

Yes Rumple presented her with the opputunity but he did not force Regina to kill… she decided that all on her own.

Nonnie
.
.

[Myril]

The end justifies the means: Cora was evil, so killing her was the right thing to do no matter how it happened. Being judge, jury and executioner in one person is no problem. One way to see it, not the way I see it.

Maybe Cora deserved to die, seeing what she did, but then so do Rumple and Regina and Hook, because they all killed people, no, not just killed, they murdered (yes, I assume here about Hook, he has the behavior of someone who did murder, and have no doubt he would have murdered Belle if not for Regina, what irony). I would be more for a life sentence, because I’m not at all into death penalty, but that is another discussion.

Maybe Cora deserved to die, whatever, for some that is an important point, I say it doesn’t matter that much when examining and judging what Snow did.

Snow gave Regina hope, told her that if she would put the heart back into her mother, she finally might have a mother, a family, a family Henry could be a part of. Snow said that it was Regina’s choice (how Rumple of her). But Snow knew all the time, that she had cursed the heart, and that because of that putting the heart back into Cora, no matter who would do it, was going to kill Cora. She let Regina do the execution without really giving her a choice, because she never told her the full extent of what would happen. I call that manipulative and evil.

Don’t think that is comparable even to what for example Aladdin did, it’s worse (to tie in with the beginning of the topic here). Right, maybe Snow would have tried to do it herself, put the heart back into Cora if getting a chance to, we don’t know, but fact is, Snow didn’t, she used Regina as tool. That might have been out of opportunity and the only way to still succeed, but that doesn’t make it any better in my opinion.

¯\_(?????? ?)_/¯

[astrawoid]

I agree myril. What Snow did to Regina was manipulative and evil. She tricked Regina by exploiting her weakness. I don’t think Snow has believed the ends justifies the means in the past. This was the one time that she decided to go that route and realized too late that it was the wrong thing to do and that it wasn’t her. It’ll be interesting to see her struggling with herself and what will come of the dark spot on her heart.

"We were happy."
"Because... it was born out of true love."

[Author]

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