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@LaurieAnne wrote:
I’m surprised Regina didn’t think about doing that (putting the heart back inside Cora) on her own. Maybe she didn’t know her mother’s heart was not in her body until she came to Storybrooke? Do we know that?
That is a very good question. Doubtful Regina ever knew that her mother was missing her heart. She probably figured it out later once Cora made it to Storybrooke, since Cora’s heart were always referenced as “things.”
@marty mcfly wrote:
She is rotten to the core. Did you see how she treated her father?!
I didn’t see Cora in that first appearance as being rotten. She was being realistic. I mean, look at the state her father was in when she found him. He was flat drunk. In most cases, when the parent is being the irresponsible one, sometimes an adult son or daughter has to be the one to step up and be responsible.
[adrotate group="5"]She started with a rough life … but so have millions of other people.
Choosing to rip her heart out was a poor choice for a life style. She had pride before she took her heart out … that is why she defied the king , invaded the ball and bragged about spinning straw into gold.The consequences of her actions due to ripping out her heart out… negated any feelings of pity or understanding.
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.Regina knew that her mother’s heart was not in her body, at least at this point. She may not have known that before the curse, but she told Snow that her mother removed her heart to protect herself. Presumably Cora and she had that conversation after Cora got to Storybrooke.
Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing
No one will have the same answer, there are many different opinions on this subject. Most of the times our experinces etc. have an impact on this particular topic.
As for me, my mother had a difficult life. She never had the childhood most children have, and her parents never cared for her. She also didn’t have much money as she and her family moved to Australia from Argentina which is quite a poor country. It wasn’t until her early 20s that she turned her life around. However despite all she went through, she is the best mother I have ever known. She’s loving, caring and incredibly selfless.
This is why I believe that just because Cora had a hard life, I shouldn’t feel sorry for her or excuse anything she has done. I understand why she did it, but I certainly don’t approve or believe that she had good reason. I don’t feel sympathetic for her as she knew perfectly well the difference between right and wrong. I understand that she ‘wanted the best’ for Regina however there are other ways to ensure that Regina doesn’t suffer the same way she had.Her heart may not have been in her body, but she does have a conscious and a brain. And therefore she knows fully well the difference between good and evil, and right and wrong.
This is a good idea for a topic, I like it 😀
It didn’t change how I felt about Cora at the point of her death. I understood how she got to that point more, but I didn’t sympathize with her.
Cora started from hardscrabble circumstances, but instead of that teaching her compassion and humility for others, it taught her to always put herself first. We see ambition, self-preservation, pride, and resourcefulness from her. We don’t see love, not that self-sacrificing, putting others first kind of love we see from other characters. Whatever she felt for Rumpel, well, it was not enough for her to feel strength from it. When Xavier tells Cora, “love is weakness,” why does she believe him? This is a man who humiliated her, who she disparaged for selling off his own flesh and blood, who just said about his son, “that there is not that much there to love”. Why does his opinion matter to her? The only reason I can think of is that she can’t stand the idea of “losing” to him, of letting him think she is weak. So she proves she is strong, by ripping her own heart out, and turning her back on love. (Ok, a creepy, dark weird destructive love, but I guess without a heart, she can’t even have any other type of love). She doesn’t just choose power. She chooses not to love. That is why I feel no sympathy for her when she dies.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
@KFChimera wrote:
It didn’t change how I felt about Cora at the point of her death. I understood how she got to that point more, but I didn’t sympathize with her.
Cora started from hardscrabble circumstances, but instead of that teaching her compassion and humility for others, it taught her to always put herself first. We see ambition, self-preservation, pride, and resourcefulness from her. We don’t see love, not that self-sacrificing, putting others first kind of love we see from other characters.
That’s true.
@KFChimera wrote:
When Xavier tells Cora, “love is weakness,” why does she believe him? This is a man who humiliated her, who she disparaged for selling off his own flesh and blood, who just said about his son, “that there is not that much there to love”. Why does his opinion matter to her? The only reason I can think of is that she can’t stand the idea of “losing” to him, of letting him think she is weak. So she proves she is strong, by ripping her own heart out, and turning her back on love. She doesn’t just choose power. She chooses not to love.
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It was surprising to hear from Xavier that ‘love is weakness.’ I expected that to come from Rumpelstiltskin.
@marty mcfly wrote:
She is rotten to the core. Did you see how she treated her father?!
to be fair to her, he looked like the stereotypical drunk. “I, for one, would like to EAT this week” suggests that father’s alcoholism has cost the miller’s family dearly in the past. I grew up in that kind of family and her behaviour, yelling at him and throwing away his booze, is fairly tame.
Missing as answer the possibility to say neither (and when asking for one or the other should make clear in a poll, what no and what yes means, because I don’t know if yes = more sympathetic, no = less sympathetic, or if it is the other way around. Just a little tip for next time ;))
Sympathy in the sense of liking Cora more – no, not more sympathetic.
Sympathy in the sense of understanding better her inner motivations, where she came from, what formed her, being able to somewhat put myself into her position – yes, the episode gave some important background story.I can even understand that Cora chose in the end power over love, and ripped her own heart out to go through with it. Practical thinking: Rumple couldn’t offer her appreciation and respect of people, if anything only their fear and fear induced obedience. As powerful as Rumple was as much people despised him. Going with Rumple would have meant to still be an outsider, not be respected only feared at best. I can see why to Cora her choice seemed the better one at that point. Frankly: how many decide alike, play the (seemingly) safe card instead of going with their romantic emotions, and is that so bad to think practical instead of idealistic?
Most certainly can understand that she was pissed about her father. We didn’t get to his story, but from what we saw he was a confirmed drunkard, neglecting his job and his family. For that Cora’s reaction was moderate, probably out of resignation.
As much I can understand her anger when she was humiliated at court. And I can understand her anger about feeling being born into the wrong family, being told to keep her place, to not aspire anything different. It is not about growing up in tough circumstances, it’s about being told, that you can’t change it even if you want it, that that is your place, so shut up and accept it.
Circumstances, socio-economic status, influence development of personality but even more so do the people around us, how they act and react.
No matter though how much I might understand where she came from, why she made some of the choices she did, be even sympathetic in some ways, it doesn’t mean that I find anything she did excusable. I can like even people and still say they did bad things and made wrong choices and should be prosecuted.
¯\_(?????? ?)_/¯
@myril wrote:
Missing as answer the possibility to say neither (and when asking for one or the other should make clear in a poll, what no and what yes means, because I don’t know if yes = more sympathetic, no = less sympathetic, or if it is the other way around. Just a little tip for next time ;))
I’ll remember that next time.
@myril wrote:
As much I can understand her anger when she was humiliated at court. And I can understand her anger about feeling being born into the wrong family, being told to keep her place, to not aspire anything different. It is not about growing up in tough circumstances, it’s about being told, that you can’t change it even if you want it, that that is your place, so shut up and accept it.
Circumstances, socio-economic status, influence development of personality but even more so do the people around us, how they act and react.
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I agree. There are many levels and ways you look at how the characters on this develop and why, they are, the way they are. The psychology behind it all is awesome. If I didn’t have an interest in art, I probably would have studied psychology because it’s always fascinated me.
More for Rumple and Regina, a little for Cora, but if she was so set on power that she would have torn her own heart out I don’t know if Regina would have in fact be enough, but if she chose love over power I think Regina would have been enough for her
Keeper of Swanfire's dream catcher, the Blue Fairy Plot Device, the contact name "Her", the lanyards, the trigger, the Netherworld room and necklace, Charming's quote on Thanksgiving, and PP's pic of Henry
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