Mr. Gold/Rumpelstiltskin Character Analysis

[Jenna_B]

@Grimmsistr, I ws thinking the same thing – we’ve exhausted the Emma debate, who next?  I like your choice…going to have to do some thinking, I’m not the strongest Rumple-analyzer!  You’ve given me a good challenge!

[Myril]

At the end of 3A the man Rumplestiltskin sacrifices himself to stop Peter Pan, his own father. Was there ever any idea why he had to do it that way? I mean, why didn’t he simply kill just Pan? And what happened that moment when they disappeared? Did Pan just vanish but Rumple, or his essence preserved by the powers of the Dark One was taken in a bodyless form into the vault in the EF? Or did Rumple eventually kinda absorbed the existence of his father into his life energy? I am wondering partially because I was musing about possible deeper levels of Rumple having absorbed his own son for a while. Besides that I am wondering, what effect it had on the human to have been dematerialized into some form and what that might mean for the balance of powers inside Rumple now, how much human is there and how much Dark One? Not to mention the experience he never had since he had became the Dark One but now made with Zelena: to be the slave of someone else’s will. Considering that Rumple in a way became the Dark One in the first place to be not anymore at the mercy and whims of others, that should have some impact on him.

But sometimes I have he feeling my urge to look for more profound images or meaning because old mythology, fairy tales and folklore are mixed with modern images, and because of years of fantasy and science fiction consumption and discussions, makes me look for something, that isn’t there. It’s entertainment, fun, or so.

As I see it though, Belle didn’t marry the man she met and thinks to know. I know, she said she loves even his dark sides (whatever), but even Belle should have limits.

¯\_(?????? ?)_/¯

[RumplesGirl]

Was there ever any idea why he had to do it that way? I mean, why didn’t he simply kill just Pan? And what happened that moment when they disappeared? Did Pan just vanish but Rumple, or his essence preserved by the powers of the Dark One was taken in a bodyless form into the vault in the EF? Or did Rumple eventually kinda absorbed the existence of his father into his life energy?

All good questions and all without answers. There was the idea in the show that Rumple had to die alongside Pan (if I kill him, I die too) but there was never any sort of explanation why the two were tied together.

Many people have said that when Rumple stabbed Pan the dagger went into Rumple as well, which I find really problematic because that dagger is not that long and the human body is very 3-D–meaning there is a lot in between your back and your front half. The dagger isn’t a broadsword. So if that’s the actual reason for why Rumple died alongside Pan, it’s a weak one (for me). Where Pan went…pfft. Your guess is as good as mine. A and E said he was dead and gone. But both vanished.

The Vault of Eternal Goo is…if I say plot device-y is anyone going to hit me? Cause that’s my whole take on  it. They needed some magical handwaving thing so they introduced this idea of a secret vault that apparently no one knew about where Dark Ones go (all Dark Ones? Suicidal Dark Ones?) as they “return to the Darkness”

As far as your questions about humanity post-resurrection in Rumple…again, good questions. But I don’t know how much thought A and E give those kinds of questions, especially once the arc is done. Rumple seems to have been resurrected as the Rumple we knew–he’s powerful, he can be controlled, but he’s deeply in love with Belle and committed to his son. He’s still snarky, sarcastic, sly, and ruled by his own desires coupled with love of his family. He has the same amount of power, but now he’s lost his boy and that pushed him to kill Zelena, but then afterwards, he goes right back. It didn’t darken him anymore, as evidenced (I think) by the love he still bears for Belle.

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[PriceofMagic]

There was a theory (I think I saw it on Screwball’s tumblr somewhere) that the reason Rumple had to die as well as Pan was that Pan didn’t have a shadow. Therefore when they shared Rumple’s shadow, so Rumple could kill Pan, it kind of connected them so that stabbing Pan also harmed RUmple. Also depending on how long the dagger is and both Robbie Kay and Robert Carlyle are both thin, it’s possible that the dagger could theoretically go through Pan and into Rumple.

I won’t go into the Zelena death/What would Belle do when she finds out debate because I think RumBelle should work it out.

Here’s a question. Is it possible Rumple might have a split personality going on?

Rumple said “all the VOICES in my head, will soon be quiet when I’m dead”. We know Rumple absorbed Bae and was sharing a body with him but Bae would only be A Voice. “VoiceS” implies more than one. The identity of the other voices are possibly Pan (who disappeared in the golden light with Rumple) and The Dark One.

All magic comes with a price!

Keeper of Felix

[RumplesGirl]

Here’s a question. Is it possible Rumple might have a split personality going on? Rumple said “all the VOICES in my head, will soon be quiet when I’m dead”. We know Rumple absorbed Bae and was sharing a body with him but Bae would only be A Voice. “VoiceS” implies more than one. The identity of the other voices are possibly Pan (who disappeared in the golden light with Rumple) and The Dark One.

That’s possible. But I think it’s also just a writing/grammar issue.

You can’t say, “the one voice inside my head will be quiet when I’m dead” because it’s less maniacal and less catchy. It also gives away, a bit, of what was to come: Neal being absorbed.

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[Jenna_B]

Rumple is possibly the most complex character on OUAT, but I think he’s the one least understood – even by the writers.  I think sometimes the writers convince themselves that because Robert Carlyle could act his way out of a paper bag and the Dark One Rumple is flashy, people aren’t going to ask too many questions.  I’m hoping they soon realize this just isn’t the case.

I agree – the Rumple/Pan dying thing simply does not make sense to me.  I don’t think the dagger, even if it made it’s way through Pan and to Rumple, would have caused Rumple’s death simply because he was stabbed.  So maybe it’s due to the magical properties?  The shadow, or lack thereof?  I haven’t really seen a great theory I can get behind and I definitely have not been able to come up with one myself.  But as said before, that arc is over, so it’s doubtful we’ll ever understand.

In regard to RumBelle — I have problems with them because I think they have potential to be a fantastic couple, but there is just too much that, for me, can’t be explained.  I get that Belle is forgiving and all, but to forgive to the extent that Belle apparently does is simply unrealistic – even for me, and I let OUAT get away with a LOT when it comes to not being realistic.  Does – and maybe people who have better knowledge of Belle/RumBelle can clarify – know EVERYTHING that Rumple has done as the Dark One.  Does she have full understanding of Rumple as the ‘coward’ (another debatable concept but I’ll leave that alone for now), and his motivations for even becoming the Dark One in the first place?  Or does she just turn a blind eye?  Does she not SEE how much he teeters on that line between being a good man and returning to full on Dark One persona?  If a man’s own son leaves him, wouldn’t that cause a potential romantic partner to pause if just for a moment and ask themselves ‘why’?

I think Belle will have to finally face who Rumple is/was and who she perceives him to be first and foremost.  And I think I agree that yes, that would be very difficult to do when together – so they may need some time apart.  And a LOT of time on Archie’s couch!  I think part of the reason Rumple felt justified in first lying to Belle about the dagger, and then killing Zelena, and THEN hiding all of it is because he’s been with Belle long enough to believe that she’s probably going to forgive him.  Because that’s what she does.  Rumple doesn’t have the motivation to truly change – because he has that person to depend on and the belief that virtually anything he does, no matter how bad, will be considered excusable in the eyes of the one person that matters.

I love the Dark One – I could watch DO all day and not get bored – so for my own amusement, I wouldn’t necessarily mind if we see Rumple do a full-on reversal and have to start over from the beginning to redemption, I admit.  I don’t know if I’d be as interested if it’s just ‘Gold’ and he’s finally good.

===

Aside from RumBelle, if I could ask Rumple one thing it would be – what do you think Neal would say if he knew you ‘avenged’ his death?  Because (I’ve mentioned this before, maybe here, sorry if I’m repeating — ) to me, the last thing Neal would have wanted – especially after sacrificing his own life for his father’s and the rest of his family’s lives – is for Rumple to kill someone in Neal’s name.  Some of Neal’s actions may have been misguided but to me, he’s never anything intentionally evil – and even the ‘bad’ things he’s done were with good intent.  So what would he think knowing that Rumple reverted, embraced the Dark One and killed another person ‘for him’?

This, I believe, needs to be addressed and I hope it is fairly early on in S4.  I think this is even more important, possibly, than addressing Belle and how she will be affected when she learns of Rumple’s actions.   One of the most compelling relationships on OUAT is the one between Rumple and his son, for me, and I really hope they don’t shove it aside.

[RumplesGirl]

Does – and maybe people who have better knowledge of Belle/RumBelle can clarify – know EVERYTHING that Rumple has done as the Dark One. Does she have full understanding of Rumple as the ‘coward’ (another debatable concept but I’ll leave that alone for now), and his motivations for even becoming the Dark One in the first place?

Sadly, none of this has been made clear on screen. What Belle does or does not know, just hasn’t been given to us. We know Belle knows that he killed Milah…but we don’t know if she knows *how* Rumple lost Bae or how he became the Dark One, or what he did in the years before he met her. To be fair, not a lot is known about what Rumple did in the those years. The time from loosing Bae to Cora is a big old blank.

Aside from RumBelle, if I could ask Rumple one thing it would be – what do you think Neal would say if he knew you ‘avenged’ his death?

Neal would be totally and completely disappointed in his father. The last thing Neal knew, his father sacrificed his life for those he loved and acknowledged that he was a villain and maybe he doesn’t get a happy ending because of the things he’s done. And now this. Neal would be so upset. But he’s dead. So I am pissed on his behalf.

One of the most compelling relationships on OUAT is the one between Rumple and his son, for me, and I really hope they don’t shove it aside.

*resits urge to make realllllllly snarky comment about writers*

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[Jenna_B]

Yeah….I didn’t knoe how to word that last one, RG!!

[WickedRegal]

Just a couple of questions to get the talking going- Rumple’s last act of the third season was to kill the, in his mind, his sons murderer. Why did he do this? what did he take with him from that experience did he go backwards in his road to redemption? Should Belle forgive him for lying to her or give him the boot when she finds out? What should be Rumple’s next step, now that he doesnt have the motivation of finding his son. What should he be looking for now? He has the daggar in his own hands now, so he holds his own fate, so to speak. Is Rumple really the best person for his own good to hold the daggar? or should we hope for Belle to snatch it from him or something?

Ohhh god this is gonna be a hard one…but let’s do it!

Rumple Dumple….I believe had some right to kill Zelena, right up to the moment he swore he wouldn’t go after her to Belle. The one thing that I’ve never liked about Rumple is that he somehow always manages to avoid having to own up to his wrongdoings, and that karma never came around back to him. I mean this is the man who has been manipulating a lot of things for over 300 years in order to get to this land, even going so far as morphing a pure soul into being his monster to cast the curse, he created. When the curse broke, everyone went straight for Regina, but bypassed Rumple along the way, the man who created the curse in the first place.

—A List of only some of Rumple’s misdeeds—

Rumple also has a way in setting off a series of unfortunate events nearly every season…season 1, he created the curse. Season 2, after promising Belle he wasn’t, Rumple curses Regina with the Wraith that set off the whole FTL adventure that brought along Cora, who he manipulated Snow White into killing. Season 3A, Rumple became a hero by killing Pan, finally! Season 3B, After once again promising Belle he wasn’t, he goes to kill Zelena, that started the whole Time Travel that brought back Marian, thus ruining Regina’s romance with Robin Hood.

——————

The point is…a lot of this occurred because of Rumpelstilskin, but he doesn’t necessary deserve all of the blame. Must I bring up all the damage Malcolm did to his son, so Rumple really didn’t have a great example growing up.

—————–

As far as the Zelena death situation, as I stated above, Rumple had little right till he promised Belle. The moment he promised Belle, or hinted that he wouldn’t go after Zelena….that vengeance should have gone null and void. Just as the moment in 2×17 at the well when Regina destroyed her curse as a promise to Henry that she wouldn’t go after Snow White, the vengeance became null and void. Not to mention that Neal would not have wanted his father to take a backwards step by killing Zelena, and I know that someone’s going to throw a fish or something for me saying this, but Neal’s death was only partially Zelena’s fault. Neal knew the consequences, and said to hell with the price. OOC much, but that’s what happened. And I also blame Lumiere for although Zelena loaded the gun, Lumiere pulled the trigger.

Rumple promise to Belle should be taken sacred, and he needs to learn that. I side with @RumplesGirl that Belle should leave Rumple, but forgive him sometime in Season 4B. And it’d make it even better if Rumple, just for once, fessed up to his own crimes instead of hiding in the shadows, or being caught in a predicament. He already missed that first chance at the Station by making it seem as if Zelena killed herself. So I really want Rumple to fess up to his crimes for once.

———————

And to be honest…now that Neal’s dead, I don’t know what Rumple will do now. Work through this Zelena Murder mess, and try to be a grandfather for Henry. That’s the best I can come up with. Oh yeah, and of course we need his intellect for whatever force we’re facing in S4.

And as for the dagger, I think the best person to have it is Belle. Though Cora probably smiled seeing both her daughters gaining control of the Dark One, but Belle should be the ONLY person holding Rumple’s dagger!

 

 

"If you go as far as you can see...you will then see enough to go even further." - Finn Balor

[RumplesGirl]

I mean this is the man who has been manipulating a lot of things for over 300 years in order to get to this land, even going so far as morphing a pure soul into being his monster to cast the curse, he created. When the curse broke, everyone went straight for Regina, but bypassed Rumple along the way, the man who created the curse in the first place.

To be fair, though, Rumple also created the Savior who would brake the curse. He did it for selfish reasons, but he’s still the one who made sure Emma would be the Savior. Regina wanted to kill baby Emma…

 

The point is…a lot of this occurred because of Rumpelstilskin, but he doesn’t necessary deserve all of the blame. Must I bring up all the damage Malcolm did to his son, so Rumple really didn’t have a great example growing up.

I’ll agree with you. Rumple is pretty much responsible for the show as a whole if we sit and think about it. But he’s a victim of his father and his fate as well. Doesn’t excuse a lot of what’s he done, but it does help us understand him.

And to be honest…now that Neal’s dead, I don’t know what Rumple will do now. Work through this Zelena Murder mess, and try to be a grandfather for Henry. That’s the best I cancome up with. Oh yeah, and of course we need his intellect for whatever force we’re facing in S4

I need some Henry/Rumple scenes. Henry is so much like his father and I want Rumple to see that and to bond with him. I really don’t want the writers forgetting that Henry and Rumple are related.

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[Author]

Posts