Mr. Gold/Rumpelstiltskin Character Analysis

[WickedRegal]

And to just add….Rumple is 10x better than the father Malcolm was, and I think it’s safe to say that Malcolm is to blame for really everything wrong! Like if he had been a good father, none of this would of ever happened! 😛

Well…unless fate said so otherwise

[RumplesGirl]

And to just add….Rumple is 10x better than the father Malcolm was, and I think it’s safe to say that Malcolm is to blame for really everything wrong! Like if he had been a good father, none of this would of ever happened! Well…unless fate said so otherwise

Malcolm is the one person I hope never gets a proper backstory. Let him be that “evil. “

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[seamstress]

I generally agree with PoM when it comes to Belle and Zelena’s death/Rumple’s lies. I can see Belle kicking him out of the house and a brief separation, but I believe they will work it out. Belle leaving Rumple forever? Not going to happen. They won’t break Beauty and the Beast. Period.

Of course, a lot depends on how and when Belle will find out..

I do understand why Rumple sought Zelena out to kill her. It wasn’t just Neal’s murder but it was also the year of abuse and torture and pain inflicted upon him. The question for me wasn’t “does Rumple have a right to be angry enough to commit murder” but “can he follow the path of the better angels and rise above his dark tendencies.” What angers me is that at the end of S3A, the answer the latter. He sacrificed his own life for the lives of his son and his true love and he died a hero, not a villain, taking his wicked papa with him. So this moment in S3B where he kills Zelena is like a giant step backwards for me. And maybe a giant step backwards and off a cliff. It’s natural that a parent wants to defend their child; we have reports all the time of a parent killing the person who murdered their child…or, if they go by the law, asking for the death penalty (here in America, I know the system works differently in your neck of the woods, Grimm). It angers me that instead of having Rumple mourn his son (he hasn’t even gone to his grave yet!), they had him seek out revenge when Rumple DARN WELL KNOWS that it’s the last thing Neal would have wanted. Neal believed his papa could be a better man, and Rumple just disappointed him again.

I would venture to claim that he killed Zelena also to protect Belle. Powerless doesn’t mean harmless. Did Zelena need magic to manipulate Neal to kill himself? Not very much. Or did Hook use magic to hurt Belle? Nope. Zelena was mentally unstable and had that sick obsession with Rumple. An obvious threat to Belle! Yes, she was in jail, but Regina seemed to be ready to let her out if she just promised to behave.

Besides, every time Rumple spared someone who hurt Belle, he got kicked in the teeth later. He spares Hook – and later the pirate shoots Belle and she loses her memory. He spares Regina – and later she turns amnesiac!Belle into Lacey..

Jenna_B wrote:

Does – and maybe people who have better knowledge of Belle/RumBelle can clarify – know EVERYTHING that Rumple has done as the Dark One. Does she have full understanding of Rumple as the ‘coward’ (another debatable concept but I’ll leave that alone for now), and his motivations for even becoming the Dark One in the first place?

Sadly, none of this has been made clear on screen. What Belle does or does not know, just hasn’t been given to us. We know Belle knows that he killed Milah…but we don’t know if she knows *how* Rumple lost Bae or how he became the Dark One, or what he did in the years before he met her. To be fair, not a lot is known about what Rumple did in the those years. The time from loosing Bae to Cora is a big old blank.

In “The Crocodile”, he told Belle that he lost Bae because power became too important to him, and that he was the one who created the curse. To find Bae.

Does Belle need to know EVERYTHING that Rumple has done? He has lived 300 years so it would be quite a long story. 😀 Besides, Rumple obviously isn’t proud of his past and feels guilty for his actions. And Belle knows that.

And as for the dagger, I think the best person to have it is Belle. Though Cora probably smiled seeing both her daughters gaining control of the Dark One, but Belle should be the ONLY person holding Rumple’s dagger!

When Rumple was under Zelena’s control, it seemed that he wasn’t able to use his magic at all (unless Zelena ordered him to use it), regardless of whether the dagger was in her hand or on the table. So if he gives Belle the real dagger, he can’t use his powers and thus is unable (in his mind) to protect Belle. That’s why he gave her the fake dagger. Not because he doesn’t trust Belle, but because he doesn’t trust HIMSELF.

Which brings us to Rumple’s biggest problem: His incredibly low self-esteem. In mid-season finale, Rumple sacrificed his life for his family and saved the whole town in the process. And yet, he doesn’t see the good in himself. He still thinks he’s a monster. He has no faith in himself. Or rather, he has faith in the Dark One, but not in Rumplestiltskin. The Dark one gets the job done. But Rumplestiltskin? His only choice is “which corner to hide in”, as he said in “Desperate Souls”.

As long as he has that mentality, he will struggle. In order to really change, he must have faith in himself, in Rumplestiltskin. He must believe that Rumplestiltskin has good in him and can live and be succesful without magic, that all he needs is his brilliant brain, wide experience of live and loving wife/family. And he has to learn to forgive himself.

Back to the dagger. I kinda agree with WR that Belle should have it. I mean, I’d like to see her to demand Rumple to give the dagger to her as a sign of trust. And naturally he gives it to her (Zelena is dead and Hook and Regina are no longer a threat, so Belle shouldn’t be at risk), which means he can’t use magic unless Belle gives the dagger back to him. But he’s not controlled otherwise. He just has to try and live without magic.

What if Elsa then kidnaps Belle (poor girl can’t have a break!), and for some reason she can’t summon Rumple (and Elsa isn’t interested in the dagger or can’t use it)? Well, he has to rescue her only with his wits and knowledge. Without magic! That could be an instructive experience for him, and might also lead to a certain curse-breaking kiss. 😉 It would also be quite fitting with the original Snow Queen story, if they’re going to use it. With the OUAT twist, of course.

[RumplesGirl]

I would venture to claim that he killed Zelena also to protect Belle. Powerless doesn’t mean harmless. Did Zelena need magic to manipulate Neal to kill himself? Not very much. Or did Hook use magic to hurt Belle? Nope. Zelena was mentally unstable and had that sick obsession with Rumple. An obvious threat to Belle! Yes, she was in jail, but Regina seemed to be ready to let her out if she just promised to behave. Besides, every time Rumple spared someone who hurt Belle, he got kicked in the teeth later. He spares Hook – and later the pirate shoots Belle and she loses her memory. He spares Regina – and later she turns amnesiac!Belle into Lacey..

That’s true but that means (to me) that he’s reducing Belle to a helpless figure. Those things that happened to Belle were terrible but Regina and Hook were still on the warpath against Rumple. The sad fact is, we don’t know what Zelena wanted after she was powerless. Regina offers her a second chance but we’ll never know if she was capable of accepting it.

Does Belle need to know EVERYTHING that Rumple has done? He has lived 300 years so it would be quite a long story. 😀 Besides, Rumple obviously isn’t proud of his past and feels guilty for his actions. And Belle knows that.

Oh for sure it’s a long story. And yes I suppose there is something to be said about couples having secrets from each because knowing everything might be a strain. But this isn’t a wild college party or something–we don’t know how much murder, manipulation, ect Rumple was doing in the past. And he never wanted to tell her about Milah, Hook did that (and Belle barely blinked but maybe we’ll have that for her thread when we get to it). She loves the part of him that belong to the darkness, but she’s more or less in the dark about the level of darkness.

Which brings us to Rumple’s biggest problem: His incredibly low self-esteem. In mid-season finale, Rumple sacrificed his life for his family and saved the whole town in the process. And yet, he doesn’t see the good in himself. He still thinks he’s a monster. He has no faith in himself. Or rather, he has faith in the Dark One, but not in Rumplestiltskin. The Dark one gets the job done. But Rumplestiltskin? His only choice is “which corner to hide in”, as he said in “Desperate Souls”. As long as he has that mentality, he will struggle. In order to really change, he must have faith in himself, in Rumplestiltskin. He must believe that Rumplestiltskin has good in him and can live and be succesful without magic, that all he needs is his brilliant brain, wide experience of live and loving wife/family. And he has to learn to forgive himself.

Well this I absolutely agree with. I know it’s hard to tell right now, but I used to be one of Rumple’s biggest defenders 🙂 I still am but am slowly becoming disillusioned about the writers ever pushing him past his insecurities and his fears. He needs to believe that he can have a happy ending but it might not look like what he thought–Neal and Belle. I had hoped that loosing Neal would make him want to be an even better man–try to really heal and fight for his happy ending because that’s what Neal would want. Loosing your child is going to suck everyday for the rest of your life, but I wanted him to grieve, to rage at the world, to visit the grave, to seek solace in Belle’s arms…but to not murder because THAT’s respecting Nealfire.

 

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[Grimmsister]

Something I think I would like for the character Rumplestilzkin is, and I know thats not gonna ever be a popular wish, but for him to be the “To far gone” character out of the bunch, doesnt OUaT need one of those?

There should be such a thing as being to far gone Down the dark path shouldnt there? and what better character for that then the one WHO is THE DARK ONE. I used to think Regina wouldnt be able to turn fully to her good side, but on that I guess I was wrong.

And Cora or Pan dont qualify because I dont mean just that there should be a villain without a redemption, I have discussed that on other threads before. But what I mean is Rumple tries.. he tries to do good, thats why we keep hoping he will learn and find the good in him self, but what if that is no longer possible? Has he done too many evil deeds to come back to good old pleasant peasant Rumple? logically there must be a point of no return in that regard. plus now he doesnt have his son “the beacon/fire/flame” lighting up his way to walk in the right direction.

He would then be the tragic character, the fallen angel. The one who tried but didnt make it… Or maybe that kind og story would be too dark and grimm for a Family show, but I would like it 🙂 Hence, my name.

[RumplesGirl]

He would then be the tragic character, the fallen angel. The one who tried but didnt make it… Or maybe that kind og story would be too dark and grimm for a Family show, but I would like it 🙂 Hence, my name.

You’ll be interested to know that Bobby Carlyle agrees with you. He thinks Rumple shouldn’t get his happy ending because of all the things he’s done and Rumple can never be truly happy after 300 of so much darkness.

However–the writers like their happy endings, don’t they? The fact that Rumple got married at the end of the last season, I think, means that he’ll get there but it’s going to take longer.

I think Rumple’s happy ending (which won’t truly happen until series end) is going to be the most bittersweet one of them all. Snow and Charming lost 28 years with Emma but they have the future with her and they have a new baby. Regina has a hole in her heart, but she has Henry and Robin (cause I don’t believe for one second that A and E would ever truly break up OQ–and that comes from someone who doesn’t particularly feel strongly either way about that ship). Emma has her son and Hook, so it’s a happily ever after, though I think part of her will always have small walls (they are hard to break, trust me).

But Rumple…his happy ending died. Literally. “You’re my happy ending” is what he tells Nealfire in NL. And then Neal died. And yes Rumple can have Belle and marriage and more kids and maybe be redeemed but he lost the center of his world. He’ll wake up everyday with that hole in his heart. And there is no way to fill it–not with Belle or other children. Life will go on, and he’ll be happy, but he’ll never be whole. So I don’t foresee any sort of happy ending for Rumple anyway. And that might always keep him a bit in the Dark. Identity isn’t so easy as “you are this or you are that.” Part of Rumple will always be called to the darkness and to the magic that made him feel like a “real man.” Just like part of Regina will always be the Evil Queen who used darkness to get what she wanted (and we can discuss Regina more in a week or so when we move on 🙂 ) So asking if he’s too far gone…he might already be. But not in the way you’re suggesting, being just THE DARK ONE forevermore. But part of him will always belong to the Darkness.

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[PriceofMagic]

I think Belle knows that Rumple was certainly no angel before he met her and probably doesn’t concern herself with the details of his actions in the past unless it affects her (For example, Hook went after her to get after Rumple so Belle wanted to know what had happened between Hook and Rumple).

I think Belle knows Rumple will slip up occasionally and he probably always will so whilst she is certainly going to be p****d at Rumple for lying to her and killing Zelena (Belle won’t have the sympathy for Zelena, whenever Belle has asked Rumple not to harm anybody, it been more for Rumple’s sake than the other person’s), I don’t think it would be a deal-breaker for her. Belle knows Rumple has been through a traumatic ordeal, so I could see her sticking by Rumple, as his wife, to help support him through, what was in effect, his phase of vigilante justice.

I actually don’t want Belle to have the dagger because it means that she has the power over Rumple rather than their relationship being an equal footing thing. I like the symbolism of Rumple giving Belle the dagger but I prefer Rumple having his own free-will and him being a “better man” is because he chooses to be, not because Belle has the dagger.

Also I don’t think Rumple likes lying to Belle. Bae has always been the most important person to him so I could definitely see Rumple lying to Belle in order to kill Zelena and avenge Bae. However, now that Rumple has done that, he realises he’s just dug a hole for himself with the one other person he cares about the most. He doesn’t want Belle to find out what he did, but by continuing to cover it up, he’s only digging a deeper hole for himself so he’s caught in another vicious cycle. He’s lying to cover up the lie to cover up the lie and so on. Unfortunately for Rumple, the truth always comes out eventually.

All magic comes with a price!

Keeper of Felix

[RumplesGirl]

I think Belle knows that Rumple was certainly no angel before he met her and probably doesn’t concern herself with the details of his actions in the past unless it affects her (For example, Hook went after her to get after Rumple so Belle wanted to know what had happened between Hook and Rumple).

well of course she does. But we’re not talking about a couple of youthful indiscretions. In fact, no one knows what we’re talking about. It’s a giant blank slate. For all we know, Rumple did nothing “wicked” in those years. But for all we know, he murdered tons of people.

If she doesn’t concern herself with murder–if indeed that’s what happened–then we really need to have a discussion about the believability of Belle, the character. (we can maybe do her next week?)

 

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[Grimmsister]

You’ll be interested to know that Bobby Carlyle agrees with you. He thinks Rumple shouldn’t get his happy ending because of all the things he’s done and Rumple can never be truly happy after 300 of so much darkness.

Part of Rumple will always be called to the darkness and to the magic that made him feel like a “real man.” Just like part of Regina will always be the Evil Queen who used darkness to get what she wanted (and we can discuss Regina more in a week or so when we move on ) So asking if he’s too far gone…he might already be. But not in the way you’re suggesting, being just THE DARK ONE forevermore. But part of him will always belong to the Darkness.

Yea what Im suggesting is that he didnt get the “semi happy ending” of Building a new Family with Belle. But neither do I mean for him to be submerged in the Dark One curse for ever. But for the actual Man- Rumplestilzkin, to be to far gone, yes it would partly be because of his curse, but it would also be by his own choice or lack of ability to choose to come out of his dark circle of making wrong choices, because of his experiences through these many years… to me it just doesnt make sence that he would come out the other end of that as a person able to do good for himself and others. It doesnt really make sence for Regina either but yes thats for a nother discussion.

But I guess the message of hope might get a bit lost there, but they could still tell that story through the other characters.

Oh Carlyle agrees! that makes me feel oddly happy 🙂

[PriceofMagic]

I’d like for Rumple to at least have a somewhat happy ending. It would be unfair if Regina got a happy ending after some of the things she’s done but Rumple didn’t.

All magic comes with a price!

Keeper of Felix

[Author]

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