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But I don’t think they did this early on. What I dislike about the way Rumple is written post-reboot is the way in which these very complex social and psychological issues explored in the first 3 seasons, and the commentary on class and power, gets jettisoned in favor of a much flatter narrative along the “Rumple seeks power and hence is evil” lines. And actually, this would be almost OK, if it were where the show started in the first place, but we were shown something else. So the result of this, is that OUAT ended up doing something really awful: it “naturalized” Rumple’s evilness, but because we had this class commentary early on, it can be easily read as a subtle commentary about who’s “deserving” and who “isn’t.” Ie. peasants should mind their place because they are of “lower stock.” I’m not saying that this is what they’re consciously doing, but I think there’s a risk of that interpretation — it’s subtle, like OUAT’s racism is subtle
Great post! As it stands right now, we don’t really know if there is a specific reason why Rumple wants the power again, other than for fear of being a coward. As a result, he definitely feels naturalized a bit. However, I do remember A&E saying something a couple months ago about how we will learn what’s going on in Rumple’s mind and why he took the darkness back.
If Rumple just wants the power, and doesn’t use it for manipulation or to hurt people (and only uses it to protect Belle and family), then you are right, we should not be condemning him for wanting to be “the dark one” and to have the power. The problem is, that with being the dark one, you not only have the power, but the darkness. It clearly can influence what you do and it has influenced him, Hook, and even Emma a little. But if he is able to harness the darkness and just use the power for self-defense, he should not be condemned as a villain.
But back to what I remember A&E saying, it seems a more direct explanation regarding Rumple’s “motives” (if I recall that is the word they used), is coming our way and perhaps that will rid Rumple of the naturalization you spoke of and give us a deeper understanding of why Rumple is doing what he is doing (justified or unjustified, good or bad), instead of just, I want power and that makes me evil because wanting power is evilz.
[adrotate group="5"]The problem is, that with being the dark one, you not only have the power, but the darkness.
Yes, I agree. At the same time, now that I think of it, this is another example of OUAT showing one thing, and telling us another. Lets take S4 and the AU — I mean that entire sordid mess culminated in, presumably, Rumple’s ultimate fantasy, which… wait for it… wait for it… Involved a nice log cabin! A suit of (newish) armor! Light magic that smites the ogres! And a stay at home wife with a baby!
Ok, Rumple’s not going to win any progressive gender politics awards from me, but do they mean to tell me that this is what addiction to power looks like? That’s OUAT’s response GoT’s Lord Petyr “Littlefinger” Baelish?
Great post! As it stands right now, we don’t really know if there is a specific reason why Rumple wants the power again, other than for fear of being a coward. As a result, he definitely feels naturalized a bit. However, I do remember A&E saying something a couple months ago about how we will learn what’s going on in Rumple’s mind and why he took the darkness back.
If Rumple just wants the power, and doesn’t use it for manipulation or to hurt people (and only uses it to protect Belle and family), then you are right, we should not be condemning him for wanting to be “the dark one” and to have the power. The problem is, that with being the dark one, you not only have the power, but the darkness. It clearly can influence what you do and it has influenced him, Hook, and even Emma a little. But if he is able to harness the darkness and just use the power for self-defense, he should not be condemned as a villain.
But back to what I remember A&E saying, it seems a more direct explanation regarding Rumple’s “motives” (if I recall that is the word they used), is coming our way and perhaps that will rid Rumple of the naturalization you spoke of and give us a deeper understanding of why Rumple is doing what he is doing (justified or unjustified, good or bad), instead of just, I want power and that makes me evil because wanting power is evilz.
Here’s how Eddy explained it in a few interviews:
Kitsis: I think when he said goodbye to her, he really did it so she wouldn’t have to see what happens to him and everyone else. He wanted her to be safe from the darkness. It was a very genuine moment. And then what happened was a crime of opportunity where he saw a way to no longer have to die and go to the underworld, and I think in a lot of ways, what Hook was saying in the opening was that he loves that dagger and it’s a part of him.
Source: http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/once-a-time-season-5-846454?utm_source=twitter
EK: You know, what I would say is we saw the true Rumple which was he did what was best for Belle, the person that he loves and he got her out of town. And then, he thought he would never seen her again, he thought he would have to die that day and be sent to the Underworld a place that does not have good memories or good people waiting for him and so it became a crime of opportunity where he saw a way out. I think you know that is who Rumpelstiltskin is, he is a guy who finds the loop hole and exploits it when it suits him best.
Ok, Rumple’s not going to win any progressive gender politics awards from me, but do they mean to tell me that this is what addiction to power looks like? That’s OUAT’s response GoT’s Lord Petyr “Littlefinger” Baelish?
At least we know what Littlefinger’s overall intentions are. He needs to be sneaky and manipulative to gain power through different means so he can maybe one day, rule the Iron Throne, or at the very least, put the person he wants on the Iron Throne. Why does Rumple want the power? Why is he addicted to the power, other than he doesn’t want to be weak again. Does he want to be the ultimate ruler of Storybrooke? Ultimate ruler of EF? For me, there has to be a bigger reason he wants all the power (and has tried to cleave himself from the dagger in season 4a). Not wanting to be weak, and not wanting to go back to being a coward isn’t enough. I hope that we get a big reveal into Rumple’s big motive for wanting the power, something that truly puts him into the villain category and lets us understand his actions a little more, and possibly even sets up the end game for the show. I’m asking a lot, I know, but since the very beginning I wanted Rumple to be the person that stands in the way of everyone’s happy ending when all is said and done. He has the most power, always has since becoming the DO. Does the Savior’s light magic outweigh the DO’s dark magic? I’m getting chills. Just one time, that’s all I ask.
I think it’s important to note that the retcon of Rumple’s motives is from his perspective–a perspective that we’ve seen was skewed for well over a century by exposure to the darkness. And yes, he said that when he was perhaps more objective, but I think it was colored by guilt and, again, fear; he doesn’t need to darkness for the fears to be in control of him, and here he fears that he didn’t even have noble reasons for what he did–that he’s not worth even what Belle believes he was.
Very human and very sad. A man convinced he’s unworthy and who twists his memories to support that belief.
Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing
CRAP!
I had a huge response and it got eaten and I didn’t save it.
Which means re-typing it all. It was really good too.
Fine here goes.
I personally am going to leave the Hook v Rumple question alone for now and focus on the original question I posed.
While I agree with Keb that Rumple has a fear of not being loved, I think there is something still deeper that informed his character. It’s important to note that I consider the show broken into two parts: Original! OUAT (S1-S3A) and OUAT version 2.0 (S3B-present) and that the way the writers have conceived of Rumple is different in each, the motivation behind that being something we might get into later.
For me, Rumple’s fear is often talked about too much. There is something far deeper than informs him and that’s being a son who was abandoned and a father who did the abandoning. His true archetype was never The Coward of the Trickster but the Father searching for the Lost Boy (if you want to get really deep, the search for the Lost Boy is on the surface for Neal but is also about Rumple trying to heal himself from what Malcolm had done to him as a kid). Everything about Rumple stems from his traumatic past of being abandoned. It’s why the writers have never gone back further than Rumple/Malcolm: the moment Malcolm abandons Rumple is the moment Rumple actually becomes Rumple. When children are abandoned they instinctively place the fault not on the people doing the abandoning but on themselves. It’s the “I’m not good enough” syndrome. We’ve seen it with Emma, Henry,and Neal, and as of S3A we saw it with Rumple. Now, it’s almost never the case that they aren’t good enough, there is always something deeper going on (Snow and Charming are facing down a curse; Emma’s in jail; Malcolm is a selfish man).
One of the throughlines of this show has been family and how family can both damage and heal us. @Nevermore put it far more eloquently than I can in another thread: our family–both blood and not–informs who we are as people and our journey in life. That has been one of the biggest threads in OUAT since the beginning. While we often roll our eyes at the “daddy/mommy issue” card being played (and the writers do use it an awful lot) the fact is that it’s not wildly off base. Our families do damage us; and they heal us. And that’s what the show was supposed to be about: this wild, big, extended, and insane family who was damaged through the generations and finally came back together because of the Savior, the Lost Boy, and the Boy who Believed.
With Rumple, it’s less about overcoming his cowardly nature and more about healing the wounds from being that abandoned little boy. This why the S3A finale is so important. Not only was it the end of Pan, but it was a visual representation of this son/father issue. Rumple is able to tell Bae that he’s sorry and that he loves him while simulatenously killing his father BUT while kissing him goodbye in forgiveness. It literally kills his father and metaphorically kills the abandonment and pain he felt when Malcolm left.
What S3B and onward should have been was a continuation of this theme. Either Neal and Rumple, now with Henry, break the cycle of abandonment for good and manage to heal the Stiltskin line OR had the writers still chosen to kill off Neal, made it so that Rumple is retraumatized by being abandoned (this time by his own son’s death) and how he should handle it, not with going super evil but by using Henry to heal. That’s what it should have been to continue on the theme of that family–both blood and not–inform a persons life and journey, something OUAT has always been about.
Instead the show moved away from the family thesis and instead un-nuanced (if I can use such a term) Rumple. Instead of his psyche and archetype being the injured son and father, he became simple: black hat. He was a bad guy who did bad things because he likes power. No complications, no fuss, no muss. Just….evil.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"I haven’t had a chance to read everyone’s responses yet, but I want to hit a few things:
–For the “whitewashing” aspect: While I obviously am NOT a fan of them whitewashing Hook’s deeds, what bothers me more is that the characters (and writers) do not extend even remotely the same courtesy to Rumple. This past season alone, when they knew Emma had Rumple it was “oh well. He had a chance. He can die for all we care.” Never mind that the darkness currently inhabiting their daughter/friend/girlfriend is the exact same darkness that inhabited Rumple. Later, when Hook is killed while that same darkness is inside him, we are told (through our lead character, Emma) that it’s not fair, that Hook died a hero, and that the collective CharMillStiltskin clan has to go and save Hook–never mind the Merlin murder and the attempted murder of the selfsame CharMillStilkskin clan. This is really wants fans are talking about when they mention that the shift in narrative has caused the audience to believe that Rumple – BAD and Hook – GOOD with no greater analysis or thought.
–With addiction: it’s definitely something that drives him, but I wouldn’t say it’s the first and most major aspect. @Keb is right that fear outweighs addiction: fear that without his power he’s unlovable. I would put it another way: fear that without his power, everyone would leave him because “he’s not worthy enough.”
–Not a hero but a good man: Y’know. I have argued with myself for 20 mins about if I believe this to be the case. I do think Rumple is a hero, at the very least his pre-reboot version is. Self-sacrifice is one of the defining traits of heroism–Emma, Regina, and Snow have all exhibited it at one point or another. But is he a good man? It’s hard to say for me. He has “good man” qualities: he does love his wife and son, even if his love for Belle and Bae are often overshadowed by something else. There is no denying that he does love and provided for his son. He does love and have affection of Henry even in S4A (post-re-boot) wanting to take Henry with him and Belle out of SB. But there things that no good-man would do, like hat-sucking. I think trying to classify him as one or the other or one and not the other is maybe too simplistic, even on a show that has reduced him to being so simplistic.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"With Rumple, it’s less about overcoming his cowardly nature and more about healing the wounds from being that abandoned little boy. This why the S3A finale is so important. Not only was it the end of Pan, but it was a visual representation of this son/father issue. Rumple is able to tell Bae that he’s sorry and that he loves him while simulatenously killing his father BUT while kissing him goodbye in forgiveness. It literally kills his father and metaphorically kills the abandonment and pain he felt when Malcolm left.
You know, I’ve been wondering if a reason why the writers have been struggling with Rumple since 3B has to do with how his sacrifice at the end of 3A very much felt like that’s where his story could have ended. Everything came full circle for Rumple at that very moment. Rumple had already patched things up with his son, and now he was confronting his father, which was where it all started. This was also the moment where Rumple finally put aside his habit of self preservation in favor of protecting his loved ones. His family came before his power, which was the entire point of his character arc.
However, both Adam and Eddy and ABC realized just how big of a draw Rumple is to the show, and weren’t content with losing him. Not only that, but the writers clearly prefer writing Rumple as a villain. Having Rumple remain a hero or neutral party just wasn’t going to cut it for them, and they needed a way to have him slide back. I guess a hero or neutral Rumple in a permanent capacity just isn’t interesting to the writers. That’s where killing Neal comes in. Having Zelena kill Neal and enslave Rumple with the dagger set the events that led to Rumple lying to Belle, and attempting to murder Zelena behind her back. So much of what Rumple had previously done was for his son, but he ultimately lost him in the end anyway.
With Season 4, the hat appeared as a golden opportunity to “cleave” himself from the dagger once and for all, but of course he wasn’t going to let Belle in on that either, as he had to absorb people into the hat and crush Hook’s heart in order to do it. Then came Belle banishing him from Storybrooke, Rumple’s heart suddenly dying, Rumple plotting to find the Author with the Queens of Darkness, etc. Rumple was stripped of being the Dark One at the end of Season 4, with many of us thinking perhaps that would be the end of evil Rumple once and for all. After all, Rumple during Season 4 went as dark as we thought he could go, or so we thought. His heart was dying as a result of centuries worth of using dark magic, after all.
With 5A, it certainly seemed like we were going to get the drama of Rumple being a mortal man again, and having to deal without magic. We got Emma shaping Rumple into a hero to pull Excalibur out from its stone. Rumple even faced Dark Hook in a sword fight, and proudly won without the use of magic. Then of course the 5A finale happened, and Rumple decided to become the Dark One once again, completely contradicting the whole point of that hero arc.
Wow, this turned out much longer than I had planned, but the gist of it is that the writers have been at a loss as to how to write Rumple since 3B.
For me, Rumple’s fear is often talked about too much. There is something far deeper than informs him and that’s being a son who was abandoned and a father who did the abandoning.
If we are going with what started it all, this is absolutely correct. It is what made season 3a so great. His father abandoning him started it all and shaped his character. But it’s because of that, and hyis cowardice and his fear, that he wants power. And right now, the power/addiction part of it is so prevalent that for me, it’s what encompasses his character.
You know, I’ve been wondering if a reason why the writers have been struggling with Rumple since 3B has to do with how his sacrifice at the end of 3A very much felt like that’s where his story could have ended. Everything came full circle for Rumple at that very moment. Rumple had already patched things up with his son, and now he was confronting his father, which was where it all started. This was also the moment where Rumple finally put aside his habit of self preservation in favor of protecting his loved ones. His family came before his power, which was the entire point of his character arc. However, both Adam and Eddy and ABC realized just how big of a draw Rumple is to the show, and weren’t content with losing him. Not only that, but the writers clearly prefer writing Rumple as a villain. Having Rumple remain a hero or neutral party just wasn’t going to cut it for them, and they needed a way to have him slide back. I guess a hero or neutral Rumple in a permanent capacity just isn’t interesting to the writers. That’s where killing Neal comes in. Having Zelena kill Neal and enslave Rumple with the dagger set the events that led to Rumple lying to Belle, and attempting to murder Zelena behind her back. So much of what Rumple had previously done was for his son, but he ultimately lost him in the end anyway. With Season 4, the hat appeared as a golden opportunity to “cleave” himself from the dagger once and for all, but of course he wasn’t going to let Belle in on that either, as he had to absorb people into the hat and crush Hook’s heart in order to do it. Then came Belle banishing him from Storybrooke, Rumple’s heart suddenly dying, Rumple plotting to find the Author with the Queens of Darkness, etc. Rumple was stripped of being the Dark One at the end of Season 4, with many of us thinking perhaps that would be the end of evil Rumple once and for all. After all, Rumple during Season 4 went as dark as we thought he could go, or so we thought. His heart was dying as a result of centuries worth of using dark magic, after all. With 5A, it certainly seemed like we were going to get the drama of Rumple being a mortal man again, and having to deal without magic. We got Emma shaping Rumple into a hero to pull Excalibur out from its stone. Rumple even faced Dark Hook in a sword fight, and proudly won without the use of magic. Then of course the 5A finale happened, and Rumple decided to become the Dark One once again, completely contradicting the whole point of that hero arc. Wow, this turned out much longer than I had planned, but the gist of it is that the writers have been at a loss as to how to write Rumple since 3B.
All of this. Yes. Season 3a should have been the end for Rumple. Now, if they give us a big revealing motivation behind Rumple’s reasoning for taking back the DO mantle, I think they can still bring the character to a close in a decent way, albeit different way than what his ending was supposed to be in season 3a. Perhaps something that involves his mother…..In a show about family, are we really going to get to the end of it without ever seeing Rumple’s mother? I doubt it.
ow, if they give us a big revealing motivation behind Rumple’s reasoning for taking back the DO mantle, I think they can still bring the character to a close in a decent way, albeit different way than what his ending was supposed to be in season 3a.
Actually I now think that his end at the end of all things is going to be the same as it was in S3A but with a different motivation. Instead of Rumple sacrificing his life for the town, I think it’s likely that he’ll be sacrificed by the heroes in an effort to end the darkness for good OR to end the “final battle”
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"
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