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*sigh* *hands Kat cheese* So, I think this might just need to be a shippy thread. Ship your ship. If you don’t ship it, let’s just let them have their fun and do what shippers do. As someone who is part of one of the larger crack ships, I know how much fun it can be to just have fun (a TV show be fun, I know…it’s unheard of) I too appreciate people uploading the news and keeping people apprised but now it’s out there so let’s just…you know…ship?
Thanks RG! The magical typing mice appreciate it!
Yes shows can be fun! It’s amazing to me that we all keep recruiting new Oncers to our obsession cause anybody on the outside looking in would think we’re all mad with how things have gotten (though we are a little!).
I do appreciate knowing for sure what information we have to go on (even if it can be a little depressing at times). Hope that point got across though in all my frustration earlier. I love my fellow Oncers even if we don’t agree! (And most of my Oncer friends are outside of my ships!).
Let’s just be happy that we have new footage, new stuff to go on, and new ships,crackships,friendships,whateverships to enjoy! We are expanding Adam & Eddy’s fleet and that’s a powerful thing! (We even out-trended Breaking Bad at one point and they were in a series finale! We trended well past midnight on the east coast which is impressive!)
Mulan/Neal:
Mulan knows about the blood magic. There is much more to her story than we’ve seen so far and I hope that at least someday we learn it but she definitely knows stuff that Neal knows. Loved that he swung the walking stick around like Shang though. He probably couldn’t have resisted even if he wasn’t expecting it to show something cause how often do you meet your favorite fairy tale characters and have them not know the sly references you’re making to their awesome movie?
And now, crackship or not, I really want to go watch Mulan to remind myself because I feel like there will be random quote references because Neal has watched the movie and won’t be able to help himself!
[adrotate group="5"]Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
I’ve seen some diehard anti-Hook people want Eric to be gay so that Ariel can be with Hook and they can disappear off the show and make way for SwanFire. Does it make me mad? You betcha.
Ummm, just for the record, as one of the people who has discussed the possibility of Eric being gay, just wanted to say that it’s NOT because I’m “anti-Hook”, I’m actually Hooker. There’s actual reasoning behind the theory, which is based in the intent of the author of the original story when he wrote it, and also the fact that they’ve said they do intend to introduce gay characters in the near future, so this might be a way they do it, because typically there aren’t traditionally gay fairytale characters. You don’t need to personally be on board with the idea, but please do not go assuming that those of us who have entertained the idea are simply doing it because we hate Hook and want him to disappear off the show with Ariel so SwanFire can happen, because that is absolutely not the case.
That is all. Carry on.
I’ve seen some diehard anti-Hook people want Eric to be gay so that Ariel can be with Hook and they can disappear off the show and make way for SwanFire. Does it make me mad? You betcha.
Ummm, just for the record, as one of the people who has discussed the possibility of Eric being gay, just wanted to say that it’s NOT because I’m “anti-Hook”, I’m actually Hooker. There’s actual reasoning behind the theory, which is based in the intent of the author of the original story when he wrote it, and also the fact that they’ve said they do intend to introduce gay characters in the near future, so this might be a way they do it, because typically there aren’t traditionally gay fairytale characters. You don’t need to personally be on board with the idea, but please do not go assuming that those of us who have entertained the idea are simply doing it because we hate Hook and want him to disappear off the show with Ariel so SwanFire can happen, because that is absolutely not the case. That is all. Carry on.
Had a lot to say and then decided not to derail even further. Sorry Phee, that was NEVER my intention and I coulda sworn I said something about that since I’m touchy about people assuming I ship Neal to get rid of him. Definitely didn’t want to imply that all of you do that to Hook and you’ve been better to him than most! And you want him to have an actual love story and not to get rid of him which makes me happy.
I liked the IDEA of Hookriel before but other viable theories made me walk away so it wouldn’t be too awkward if it didn’t happen. Similarly I wasn’t on board with the MuFire idea when we hadn’t seen them interact at all and then was blown away last night. To each their own.
I was trying to show a comparable “perceived sunkenness” example (which totally backfired, my apologies), saying I wouldn’t go in there and talk about Eric is the same to me as not coming in here and telling me that SF has to happen because Neal can’t love anyone other than Emma. The CC quote was an interpretation saying it couldn’t happen because his focus is on Emma *right now*… but so is Hook’s. Does that mean that whoever is left out in the cold doesn’t get their own love story? Gosh I hope not! I’d be sad for either one of them! That would be majorly depressing if that was definitive proof that if Emma doesn’t choose Neal he’ll never find love.
The tweet on the other hand was helpful information. I am sure that the INTENT behind it was to tell us not to get our hopes up and that’s wonderful and nice, even if a bit of a bummer. Still, the beauty of a crackship is we can enjoy it regardless even if we wish they hadn’t wasted the potential of it. So thanks slurpeez for trying to spare us a little heartache.
We’ll all agree to disagree regarding our ships because we all believe that these are the ones that have to happen until proven otherwise. The media hype of the triangle has gotten to the point where BOTH sides have TONS of reasons to hold out hope and think they’re absolutely right and it is making me crazy because people are going to be very very hurt by it and feel lied to. We’re just fans. We don’t really know what they’re going to do for sure. It could literally go either way, regardless of how passionately feel it has to go one way. Doesn’t mean anyone has to stop shipping though!
Back to your regularly scheduled & *hopefully* pro-Mulan and Neal environment.
*passes out cookies (and walking sticks to help prop us up)*
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
Had a lot to say and then decided not to derail even further. Sorry Phee, that was NEVER my intention and I coulda sworn I said something about that since I’m touchy about people assuming I ship Neal to get rid of him. Definitely didn’t want to imply that all of you do that to Hook and you’ve been better to him than most! And you want him to have an actual love story and not to get rid of him which makes me happy.
Apology accepted, Kat. Like you’ve said, it can be infuriating if you’re accused of shipping for reasons of hate or convenience when you’re not, so just wanted to defend my little crackship. I daresay you’d find that just about everyone who ships Hookriel does so not with the hope that it would get Hook off the show, but rather that it would increase Ariel’s chances of being a permanent addition, because she’d be involved with one of the main characters.
The media hype of the triangle has gotten to the point where BOTH sides have TONS of reasons to hold out hope and think they’re absolutely right and it is making me crazy because people are going to be very very hurt by it and feel lied to.
And unfortunately, whatever happens, K&H are gonna get the hate from disgruntled fans, despite the fact that they haven’t said anything definitive either way, and it’s the media hyping up the triangle so much.
Altough I am sure that some of the ships never got to sail and I am not into the love ship of Moveal (cause of the movie dialog). I think that their is a reason why so many will go on this boat, cause they both have good chemistry. That is the reason I am on the broship team for them and definetly want to see when Mulan come to Storybrook that Neal makes a movie night with his new friends.
I now some ships and theorys are not able to go the way we sometimes want , but I like all the ships cause when their is a ship then it means that the actors have a good chemistry while playing and have also fun, so every ship that is created by fans is a proof for me that the actors are trying the best they got during a few minutes scene.
I just want to say: Make ships not war.
Heros don't get their Happy Ending!
Mulan/Neal: Mulan knows about the blood magic. There is much more to her story than we’ve seen so far and I hope that at least someday we learn it but she definitely knows stuff that Neal knows. Loved that he swung the walking stick around like Shang though. He probably couldn’t have resisted even if he wasn’t expecting it to show something cause how often do you meet your favorite fairy tale characters and have them not know the sly references you’re making to their awesome movie? And now, crackship or not, I really want to go watch Mulan to remind myself because I feel like there will be random quote references because Neal has watched the movie and won’t be able to help himself!
Yes to all of this! I really want them to expand on Mulan, in that one episode she became far more interesting to me as a character. In season 2 she was all 1-dimentional nobleness. And I also find it interesting because they chose to flesh out her character more when Neal was there. Maybe they’re gunna be a brOTP, I honestly don’t mind, but I enjoyed their interaction.
I just want to say: Make ships not war.
Yep! 😉
Keeper of Captain Swan's first kiss
I had the same reaction Phee did, MysteryKat, but I was more at a loss for words so it took me some time to respond. Now I can mostly just say what Phee said but I have to add this. I quote what you said below.
Disney canon: We know they have cast the role of Eric and I’ve seen some diehard anti-Hook people want Eric to be gay so that Ariel can be with Hook and they can disappear off the show and make way for SwanFire. Does it make me mad? You betcha.
Whether it is Eric/Vanessa or Eric/Archie what is the difference Mulan/Aurora or SQ, that point of view is just as valid. The way you talked here, its not the “messing with Disney Canon” that’s an issue because hello, it’s Hookriel and that’s a given. It’s that you seem to be drawing some conclusion from the nature of a theory on Eric being gay that correlates to the degree of “anti-hook” sentiment, when as one of the people who got the ball rolling on the idea, is not at all how I thought of it.
Here’s what I thought about: If Hookriel is to happen, if Eric is in the story, there has to be a reason he wouldn’t be with Ariel. We talked about Vanessa/Regina and then I noticed something about Hans Christian Andersen on the WikiPedia page, that his original inspiration for the unrequited love story that is his “The Little Mermaid” was based on his own homosexual attraction to a man who married a woman. It is interesting even unconnected to Hook and Ariel to me. If I had to choose I said at one point, I’d possibly pick Archie/Eric. My reason is I don’t want LGBT storylines to happen in a way that marginalizes or feels like a ‘token” for a main hetero couple. I’d been rethinking my own biases in how I’ve shipped things, after reading some SQer comments on twitter, a few things Kiwi has posted on our forums and these essays by Screwball Ninja.
http://screwballninja.tumblr.com/post/60291349124/ouat-confuses-me-sexually-a-case-study
http://screwballninja.tumblr.com/post/60375809934/mulan-and-aurora-girls-worth-fighting-for-andI do want Ariel and want her main cast and one way is to wrap her story romantically with another main cast character, but as I said I feel torn as I like the Eric/Archie idea too. I do like Hook so my interpretation of his character fit with my imagination about what Ariel would be like. How is that anti-Hook? Plus, I’m NOT a die-hard shipper, nor have I ever claimed to be that as I’ve pretty much generally said I kind of multi-ship and do even conflicting things. Like Slurpeez loves SF but doesn’t like Hookriel, likes Eric/Ariel. I love SF, Eric/Ariel and Hookriel and am in a mood for Archie/Eric presently (but mostly because I hope Eric has Perdita for Pongo….). So I like puppy romances, big deal. We all are suckers for different types of love stories.
Why we ship what we do can be as complicated as why we do not ship something. As for Neal/Mulan, I don’t feel it meshes with my subjective view any better than SQ but I am not angry if someone “dares” to ship something I do not. I’d feel like Snow yelling at Johanna about a Tiara if I did that. We all deserve respect no matter what ships get “crowned” canon or have the apparent blessing of the writers (apparent because who really know with those sneaky wordsmith guys).
So absent MysteryKat’s statements, I might not have really gotten around to posting much here because I didn’t feel that inspired to talk about what I’d like about Neal/Mulan. All I have right now is, Mulan is awesomesauce, and more of her (especially as a noble POC character) would be very welcome regardless of whether she is part of a romance with a man, woman or no one. If its Neal, there are some things I could enjoy in that alternate-universe-conflicting-realities sort of way I talk about. It isn’t how I see the story, but I can see something appealing in imagining these two together, just as I do with many different couples. Even RegalCat’s sneaking up on me (mainly because Parker Croft is sly on the twitter).
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
Screams/sighs/throws something & takes a deep breath. I’m not mad, I’m more frustrated because seeing written words be twisted is nerve-wracking and I thought I made a point to explain myself fully earlier. I’ll try again.
Again sorry to any who read it as EVERY SINGLE ONE thinks that and is anti-Hook. I explained why I am touchy about that because once again, I *felt* like I was being told that in order to ship MuFire I must be anti-Neal and that is not the case. I would certainly hope NOBODY is shipping just to get rid of the spare to their love triangle, regardless of which crackship it is.
As for the Disney canon comment I meant exactly that: for ME, if we see BOTH MEMBERS of a Disney Canon couple, I personally will be very sad to see them be split up and I personally BELIEVE that they won’t do that. So the equivalent of me NOT going to a Hookriel happy place and saying “you guys can’t happen and are sunk because Eric will be there” is coming here to a MuFire thread and saying “you guys can’t happen because Neal and Emma forever.” I even said in my initial MuFire post that it was one of my concerns stopping me from completely embracing them because I was afraid it would be an issue even though I love the idea. There’s nothing wrong with voicing concerns about something you love and then trying to figure out ways around it! We ALL do it to keep our hopes alive. To each their own.
It’s just not the appropriate place to say things like that or rather, to harp on it. It’s one thing to say it and as to why you can’t ship it and I understand that completely! Everyone is entitled to their opinion and not everyone is going to like it! It all boils down to our own INTERPRETATION of the facts. It may very well happen that they change Eric’s story entirely but SOME of us may think that Eric showing up AT ALL = it won’t happen that way. Likewise, I made sure to say ABOUT MY CRACKSHIP that if Shang shows up, I’m gonna have a really tough time buying that Mulan shouldn’t be with him again because of Disney Canon. So no, I didn’t cloak my feelings about the POTENTIAL Eric storyline by hiding under the Disney Canon umbrella – I used it for BOTH crackships and had a very firm opinion on the matter as I always have. It doesn’t mean that I am RIGHT about my Disney Canon belief so it is not an actual FACT that I would ever dream of going to a Hookriel happy place and telling them to give up. THAT WAS THE POINT. Interpretation vs outright proof. Until then let everyone be happy in their shipper bubble!
I have always said that Hookriel was an interesting option under a couple of caveats – one being back when we didn’t know the age of the actress in question cause that could have been rather awkward, and 2 that they were double-dipping Hook/Eric which they aren’t. It has always been the same opinion from me, but it is a CRACKSHIP and people are entitled to enjoy it. There’s a long list of ships that will never sail but are fun to think about and regardless of which current crackships end up on that list, they will always remain so! To each their own!
As per my thoughts on that potential storyline, I said it saddened me the lengths that SOME were going to with the EXPRESS PURPOSE of getting rid of Hook. So if I said that and you weren’t one of them saying that? Then you’re not one of the ones that makes me unhappy and I’ve pointed out at least twice now that not EVERY CSer hates Neal and ships him to get rid of him and not EVER SFer ships Hook to get rid of him! I have heard many that DO want him gone and I’m tired of getting dumped on for liking him/CaptainSwan and being accused of hating Neal and wanting to ship him out of the way. That was the point. Believe me I KNOW how it feels and I DO NOT BELIEVE that everybody on the opposing side is doing what I feel like I was being accused of doing. I just mentioned why I was extra touchy about it.
I appreciate the use of actual reasons within the crackship that it could happen that way. Just like I pointed out for MuFire that perhaps Shang doesn’t even have to appear because of the original story. That’s fine! That’s an actual reason to say maybe Eric would be that character! Believe me, I get grasping for anything that makes a crackship possible and I understand wanting Ariel to stay around and involving her with Hook would make her a more central character. Those are GREAT reasons to want it and you’re welcome to do that! Especially if the intent of the original story opens the door!
My POINT was that to some it is a “perceived sunkenness” to the ship, like the comments about Neal and Emma forever are “perceived sunkenness” for MuFire, but that shipping threads should be happy places for the actual shippers, not places to continue the CSF debate and what we all think “has to happen” which vastly differs. THAT IS ALL. (Similarly, I made a POINT of saying I appreciate the actual tweet that pretty much sunk us vs the inference that Neal couldn’t love again. It was much more applicable and appropriate and went more toward telling us not to get our hopes up vs “I don’t think you’ll have a chance because this other ship you don’t like has to happen.” There’s a difference!)
Again I’m sorry if anyone was offended because their crackship was attacked in an effort to show exactly why I FEEL attacked here and why it should NEVER happen in ANY shipper thread as those should be HAPPY PLACES for said ship/crackship. Ship and let ship (even and most especially crackships).
I should never have brought it up and I apologize, even though I do feel it’s comparable to the situation. This board is overwhelmingly Hookriel so of course someone was going to feel attacked for that and again, I apologize. BOTH threads should be safe places for those who WANT to ship it. I’m just tired of feeling like only one side is safe because it’s overwhelmingly popular around here. Everyone should have a safe place to go and clearly MuFire interferes with what SFers (mostly) want and Hookriel interferes for sure with what CSers want but I bet there are some that either don’t have a preference between the two or actually only like the idea of either Hookriel or MuFire or both without any of the other stuff getting in the way, so for the sake of people who actually enjoy their crackships, let’s leave the shippy threads to the shippers so that we can ALL have our little safe havens. Enough is enough and that was the point.
Now can we PLEASE get back to Mulan/Neal, what little bit we have left of them?!? Please?
(I say this and I’ll probably actually just start avoiding threads again because I’m sick of it always coming back to the CSF debate when I really enjoyed the potential here but SOME may want to come back and actually enjoy the ship.)
*passes out cookies and runs*
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
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