Multiple MRJ interviews on SwanFire and 21/22

[Slurpeez]

@RumplesGirl wrote:

Can the Wraith come after a soul that hasn't been marked? Unless someone marks him. Hmmm. BUT I do love the idea that SB is tied to the existence of Neal

I’m not sure if Bae could be marked, unless Tamara has her own medallion, or maybe her taser has medallion-like capabilities. There was that spoiler image of Neal’s hand, which a lot of people thought looked marked. However, I kind of of doubt this myself, so maybe the Wraith is out.

Glad everyone likes the Neal’s-life-is-tied-to-SB angle, though watch me be wrong on that . 😉

[RumplesGirl]

@slurpeez108 wrote:

@RumplesGirl wrote:

Can the Wraith come after a soul that hasn't been marked? Unless someone marks him. Hmmm. BUT I do love the idea that SB is tied to the existence of Neal

I’m not sure if Bae could be marked, unless Tamara has her own medallion, or maybe her taser is medallion-like capabilities. There was that image of Neal’s hand, which a lot of people thought looked marked. However, I kind of of doubt this myself, so maybe the Wraith is out. I myself prefer the Neal’s-life-is-tied-to-SB angle, thought watch me be wrong on that one.

Lemme poke a small hole. Is SB's existence tied to Neal if SB came into existence before Bae came to our world? OR is Neal's existence tied to SB? If SB starts to disappear does his soul leave because of that?

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[Slurpeez]

@RumplesGirl wrote:

Lemme poke a small hole. Is SB's existence tied to Neal if SB came into existence before Bae came to our world?

Well, according to the promos for 2×21, it looks like young Baelfire did come to our world first (though perhaps not if it's Literary London rather than actual historical London). If that's the case, then Bae would have been in our world well before SB was ever created, even though Bae ended up in NL for a few centuries. Then, Baelfire came back.

Even if SB predates Bae coming to our world, I still don't think it would matter. The point of SB was to find Bae, who was alive, just in another world. SB was created to find Bae. As long as Bae is living, the town would exist.

The hefty price of enacting the dark curse really has yet to be paid, so can Rumple really keep Bae? I don't think he can as long as Rumple chooses magic over his son. (Sidenote, that is where Mr. Gold choosing to spare Henry could be his “undoing” since maybe Tamara steals his magic and he's no longer the Dark One).

OR is Neal's existence tied to SB? If SB starts to disappear does his soul leave because of that?

I don't think Neal's actual existence (i.e. his soul) is tied to SB, but his location in our world could be tied to SB. So, just a guess here, but yes, SB vanishing could be what triggers the exit of Neal's essence (i.e. his soul) from our world, since now the “goal” of SB has been fulfilled. Bae has been found. That fact alone could be enough, so that if SB were destroyed, Neal couldn't exist in our world, and his soul would be transported to the realm where Philip's soul went.

"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy

[RumplesGirl]

You’ve convinced me 😆

It was a passing thought that I just put out there but yes, I like the way you answered.

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[Phee]

THR: To say that the family tree is complicated is an understatement. How do you keep track of all the connections?

Raymond-James: This family tree is a f—ing wreath man! You’re not going to quiz me are you? [Laughs] It’s incredibly complicated. You really do have to draw a map with lines and pictures and it starts to look like an FBI manhunt.

OMG I love this guy! I literally LOLd, just imagining him saying this. 😆 😆

@RumplesGirl wrote:

I like it but something is going to have to be “off” about the death in order for them to think that there is more to his “death.” like it has to be a magical death in order for them think there is a possibility that he is “alive” which makes me think that his death has something to do with the fail-safe. That part of the consequence of him trying to turn off the failsafe is that his spirit is taken to FTL

You all have had some intriguing discussion on this topic, and it’s got me thinking. Just to throw my 2c in, this something having to be “off” about the “death” has been a bit of a hangup for me whenever I ponder this topic.

In order for them to believe Nealfire to be dead, there's gotta be something left behind for them to see.

A body is the best evidence, but I haven't been able to convince myself that his soul gets separated, (though if it did, that could potentially be a parallel to feed into the theories about the Pan shadow having been separated from Bae). I know he ends up with MAP, so that's where the sucked soul speculation is founded. But I keep coming back to thinking that MAP are in FTL after having brought Phillip's soul back, and Nealfire runs into them when they're sitting around wondering what to do next. And I don't believe that anyone in SB has the capabilities to wraith Nealfire.

So if I don't think that his body is still there in SB for them to find, then what else could be an indicator for them that something happened to him? This led me the other night to dig up the pics of Nealfire with MAP on the beach, in case he wasn't still wearing his scarf or something, and maybe the SBers find it all bloodied. But he's still got the scarf, (and his big coat) on with MAP.

So if there's no body and no bloodied clothing, that's what keeps me from thinking that Nealfire could be the “death”. Which is why I keep coming back to it being Granny. Seriously, why couldn't someone have seen what Beverley was up to when they were shooting these scenes?! GAH!

Anyway, my current pet theory as to what happens to Nealfire is that Tamara senses he's suspicious and she pops a bean and pushes him down a portal to get rid of him. In one of slurpeez's posts in this thread, that mark on Nealfire's hand was brought up again. I'm gonna mash that into this theory I've got going on and say that when Tamara pushes him into a portal, he's holding the failsafe gem, and it gets destroyed and burns his hand.

Now, of course, there's also the question of how everyone knows that Nealfire has actually disappeared if he just vanishes down a portal with only Tamara around. Maybe Granny will see it, and then Tamara will see her, and go after her, and then with her dying breath, Granny tells Emma what she saw? Nice little parallel to the scene with August, only this time the info actually gets out.

With the Granny theory, we've been saying she'd overhear something at the B&B which would lead to her demise at the hands of GOAT. Well, maybe that something is that Nealfire finds the gem hidden under that floorboard, and he confronts Tamara about it, they argue and struggle, which Granny hears, so she goes to investigate. Then she sees Tamara push Nealfire (still holding the gem tightly in his fist so Tamara can't get it) down the portal. And because Granny is badass, she follows Tamara to investigate further. But she gets spotted while she's spying on GOAT having a secret meeting down on the rocks, and they attack her and leave her for dead, completely unaware that Granny ain't just some regular old lady, she's a tough nut, who hangs on just long enough to be found and pass on the info.

That would explain Beverley not being seen while they were shooting, if she is indeed the one lying dying on the rocks. Granny's death alone would be enough to upset Henry and Emma and warrant their expressions in the photos. But if Granny also tells them what's happened to Nealfire, that explains why Rumple's looking upset, and it also adds a whole second level to Emma and Henry's reactions.

Egad, I rambled. 😆

PS. RumplesGirl, you’ve been merging threads like a BOSS. Thanks for keeping things organised.

[Slurpeez]

You could be right, Phee, on the death being Granny's, which would make all prior speculation moot points. 🙂

I still think something tragic will happen to Baelfire, who we know gets transported out of SB to wherever MAP is, and that's the game-changer for him and Rumple. Whether Baelfire gets transported, body and soul, to EF or just his soul to wherever Philip's soul is the sticking point. But, I think you could certainly be right about Baelfire meeting MAP after Philip's soul has already been reunited with his body in the EF. That would actually make a lot of sense, and would save us having to spend extra time on MAP's subplot. Yet, at the same time, it's interesting to think they could be in 'Shadow NL” where lost souls go. Just a theory (not mine, but interesting).

Also, I’ve been thinking more and more about Emma’s role in what happens to Bae. Plus, there was this spoiler:

Emma’s big decision: As Storybrooke is faced with extinction, Emma will have a big decision to make in regards to the possibility of traveling with her family to fairy tale land. “When things are coming to a head, you don’t have as many choices as you once thought and you have to react on instinct,” Kitsis says. “Sometimes you have to put aside your personal feelings for the good of others because that’s what a true hero does.” Additionally, we’ll see Emma confront her feelings about Neal as well as her connection to magic. “We’re definitely going to explore the magic inside her,” Kitsis says.

Remember that little scene with Emma bodyslaming Tamara, probably to protect Neal, who had a gun pointed at his head in one of the promos. Maybe Tamara actually shoots Bae, but Emma’s internal True Love magic protects him, thus sparing his life (a la Lilly and Harry Potter but Emma survives, too). Tamara uses one of the beans to transport Bae out of SB, body and soul in tact, but Emma is left with the uncertainty of Baelfire’s fate. She thinks he’s possibly dead. Wacky theory, but there was a spoiler that Emma’s magic would come into full view in these last two episodes, and I’d love to see her use her protective powers in defense of Bae and/or Henry.

"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy

[lisas]

@Phee wrote:

THR: To say that the family tree is complicated is an understatement. How do you keep track of all the connections?

Raymond-James: This family tree is a f—ing wreath man! You’re not going to quiz me are you? [Laughs] It’s incredibly complicated. You really do have to draw a map with lines and pictures and it starts to look like an FBI manhunt.

OMG I love this guy! I literally LOLd, just imagining him saying this. 😆 😆

@RumplesGirl wrote:

I like it but something is going to have to be “off” about the death in order for them to think that there is more to his “death.” like it has to be a magical death in order for them think there is a possibility that he is “alive” which makes me think that his death has something to do with the fail-safe. That part of the consequence of him trying to turn off the failsafe is that his spirit is taken to FTL

You all have had some intriguing discussion on this topic, and it’s got me thinking. Just to throw my 2c in, this something having to be “off” about the “death” has been a bit of a hangup for me whenever I ponder this topic.

In order for them to believe Nealfire to be dead, there's gotta be something left behind for them to see.

A body is the best evidence, but I haven't been able to convince myself that his soul gets separated, (though if it did, that could potentially be a parallel to feed into the theories about the Pan shadow having been separated from Bae). I know he ends up with MAP, so that's where the sucked soul speculation is founded. But I keep coming back to thinking that MAP are in FTL after having brought Phillip's soul back, and Nealfire runs into them when they're sitting around wondering what to do next. And I don't believe that anyone in SB has the capabilities to wraith Nealfire.

So if I don't think that his body is still there in SB for them to find, then what else could be an indicator for them that something happened to him? This led me the other night to dig up the pics of Nealfire with MAP on the beach, in case he wasn't still wearing his scarf or something, and maybe the SBers find it all bloodied. But he's still got the scarf, (and his big coat) on with MAP.

So if there's no body and no bloodied clothing, that's what keeps me from thinking that Nealfire could be the “death”. Which is why I keep coming back to it being Granny. Seriously, why couldn't someone have seen what Beverley was up to when they were shooting these scenes?! GAH!

Anyway, my current pet theory as to what happens to Nealfire is that Tamara senses he's suspicious and she pops a bean and pushes him down a portal to get rid of him. In one of slurpeez's posts in this thread, that mark on Nealfire's hand was brought up again. I'm gonna mash that into this theory I've got going on and say that when Tamara pushes him into a portal, he's holding the failsafe gem, and it gets destroyed and burns his hand.

Now, of course, there's also the question of how everyone knows that Nealfire has actually disappeared if he just vanishes down a portal with only Tamara around. Maybe Granny will see it, and then Tamara will see her, and go after her, and then with her dying breath, Granny tells Emma what she saw? Nice little parallel to the scene with August, only this time the info actually gets out.

With the Granny theory, we've been saying she'd overhear something at the B&B which would lead to her demise at the hands of GOAT. Well, maybe that something is that Nealfire finds the gem hidden under that floorboard, and he confronts Tamara about it, they argue and struggle, which Granny hears, so she goes to investigate. Then she sees Tamara push Nealfire (still holding the gem tightly in his fist so Tamara can't get it) down the portal. And because Granny is badass, she follows Tamara to investigate further. But she gets spotted while she's spying on GOAT having a secret meeting down on the rocks, and they attack her and leave her for dead, completely unaware that Granny ain't just some regular old lady, she's a tough nut, who hangs on just long enough to be found and pass on the info.

That would explain Beverley not being seen while they were shooting, if she is indeed the one lying dying on the rocks. Granny's death alone would be enough to upset Henry and Emma and warrant their expressions in the photos. But if Granny also tells them what's happened to Nealfire, that explains why Rumple's looking upset, and it also adds a whole second level to Emma and Henry's reactions.

Egad, I rambled. 😆

PS. RumplesGirl, you’ve been merging threads like a BOSS. Thanks for keeping things organised.

Phee I can actually buy into this theory because the of BTS pics of Neal with MAP, the BTS of Granny, along with Henry ,Emma, Rumple, David and Snow.

Sorry RG & Slurpeez108 but I don’t think Neal will be the one who will be dead or appear dead. I still think it will be Granny

I think the game-changer between Neal & Rumple will have to do with the Seer's prophecy about Henry being Rumple's undoing I suspect that Rumple will tell Lacey about the Seer's prediction and she will try to encourage Rumple to kill his own grandson and Neal may over hear it and Rumple will end up choosing his son & grandson over Lacey and her darkness which could prompt Rumple's gut wrenching decision to walk away from the woman he loves. I think that is when Belle will get her memory back.

Keeper of Neal/BaelFire's Blood Magic, Neverland Crossbow, FTL Clothes,Room at Granny’s, Charming & Emma’s Father/Daughter Hugs, Henry's Neverland Crossbow, Rumplestlitskin/Mr.Gold's FTL Walking Stick

[lisas]

@slurpeez108 wrote:

You could be right, Phee, on the death being Granny's, which would make all prior speculation moot points. 🙂

I still think something tragic will happen to Baelfire, who we know gets transported out of SB to wherever MAP is, and that's the game-changer for him and Rumple. Whether Baelfire gets transported, body and soul, to EF or just his soul to wherever Philip's soul is the sticking point. But, I think you could certainly be right about Baelfire meeting MAP after Philip's soul has already been reunited with his body in the EF. That would actually make a lot of sense, and would save us having to spend extra time on MAP's subplot. Yet, at the same time, it's interesting to think they could be in 'Shadow NL” where lost souls go. Just a theory (not mine, but interesting).

Also, I’ve been thinking more and more about Emma’s role in what happens to Bae. Plus, there was this spoiler:

Emma’s big decision: As Storybrooke is faced with extinction, Emma will have a big decision to make in regards to the possibility of traveling with her family to fairy tale land. “When things are coming to a head, you don’t have as many choices as you once thought and you have to react on instinct,” Kitsis says. “Sometimes you have to put aside your personal feelings for the good of others because that’s what a true hero does.” Additionally, we’ll see Emma confront her feelings about Neal as well as her connection to magic. “We’re definitely going to explore the magic inside her,” Kitsis says.

Remember that little scene with Emma bodyslaming Tamara, probably to protect Neal, who had a gun pointed at his head in one of the promos. Maybe Tamara actually shoots Bae, but Emma’s internal True Love magic protects him, thus sparing his life (a la Lilly and Harry Potter but Emma survives, too). Tamara uses one of the beans to transport Bae out of SB, body and soul in tact, but Emma is left with the uncertainty of Baelfire’s fate. She thinks he’s possibly dead. Wacky theory, but there was a spoiler that Emma’s magic would come into full view in these last two episodes, and I’d love to see her use her protective powers in defense of Bae and/or Henry.

Slurpeez108 I think you’re right, I would almost bet that Emma’s magic will come into play at somepoint during both episodes in defense of both Henry & Neal because of GOAT I believe that along with Phee’s theory could very well “Pan” out

Keeper of Neal/BaelFire's Blood Magic, Neverland Crossbow, FTL Clothes,Room at Granny’s, Charming & Emma’s Father/Daughter Hugs, Henry's Neverland Crossbow, Rumplestlitskin/Mr.Gold's FTL Walking Stick

[lisas]

I wasn’t sure if this had been posted here or over on the Sneak Peeks Thread so please forgive me if this has already been posted

Taken From http://blog.zap2it.com/frominsidethebox/2013/05/once-upon-a-time-baes-circuitous-route-from-18th-century-london-to-present-day.html

‘Once Upon a Time’: Bae’s ‘circuitous route’ from 18th century London to present day

On the penultimate episode of “Once Upon a Time,” viewers are going to find out just what became of Baelfire when he fell through the portal in Fairytale Land. He ended up in 18th century London and, as you can see in the clip above, is living as basically a homeless street urchin when he is taken in by the Darling family, of “Peter Pan” fame.

But in true “OUAT” fashion, it’s not a complete replica of the famous novel.

“The direction that this takes is a little bit different than the classic J.M. Barrie version,” star Michael Raymond-James tells Zap2it. “We’re doing it a bit different. You’ll have to wait and see.“

We’re very excited to see Bae and Wendy Darling fly off to Neverland together, particularly because we want to know what Bae’s background is with Captain Hook, which Raymond-James says is coming.

“You’ll get some further clarity on the Baelfire/Neal backstory with Hook. That’s coming, it’s gonna be great. You’re gonna love it,” he teases.

But one has to wonder — how does Neal go from 18th century London as Bae to present-day U.S. as Neal, when he meets up with Emma?

“It wasn’t a direct line, it was a circuitous route through time and space in order to land in time to meet Emma,” says Raymond-James. “There wasn’t a direct line, there were stops.“

We hope Season 3 will let us in on that journey. “Once Upon a Time” airs Sunday nights at 8 p.m. ET/PT on ABC. Get all the info at ABC’s official site.

Keeper of Neal/BaelFire's Blood Magic, Neverland Crossbow, FTL Clothes,Room at Granny’s, Charming & Emma’s Father/Daughter Hugs, Henry's Neverland Crossbow, Rumplestlitskin/Mr.Gold's FTL Walking Stick

[RumplesGirl]

Ok, having caught up on the conversation since last night a few things:

We keep supposing that there is only one death but it’s very possible that all our theories are right and it’s Neal's fake out death and Granny's real death, but they come indifferent episodes. In 21 we have Neal's “fake” death and at the start of 22 you learn he's still alive thus lulling the audience into thinking everyone is going to make it to S3, but then our beloved Granny is killed by Tamara after she overhears something

But one has to wonder — how does Neal go from 18th century London as Bae to present-day U.S. as Neal, when he meets up with Emma?

“It wasn’t a direct line, it was a circuitous route through time and space in order to land in time to meet Emma,” says Raymond-James. “There wasn’t a direct line, there were stops.”

Stops. Multiple. We know NL is one, but I’m starting to believe a big part of the Bae background is visiting other lands: WL, Oz, Agrabah (we’ve heard of it but haven’t seen it and while I think it is in FTL, there is nothing to suggest that Bae didn’t pop back to a different part of the EF)

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[Author]

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