Neal & Emma

[craxyfox]

I agree with MysteryKat
Captainswan aside, I still don’t buy that Neal is Emma’s true love, and it has bugged me all too much when people assume that “first love” equals true love, because that never and rarely applies to everyone. Also, just because they had a child together does not mean they should be together, that’s just a weak reason and unfair, and there are many divorces in the world. If they are meant to be together, I will like to see how it plays out, however this show has taught us that the road to happiness is never easy

In regards to true love, it’s meant to conquer all and withstand hardship.I don’t dislike Neal’s character and I saw that he did leave Emma for her own good, but he still didn’t really fight for it. We have constantly seen Charming,Snow,Rumple and Belle go through so much to be with their love,and never did they give up.If Neal is meant to be Emma’s true love,he has a lot of redemption to do 😛

Lastly, Neal and Tamara are actually adorable together 🙁

[kfchimera]

@MysteryKat25 wrote:

Who on this show DOESN’T have a lot of work to do?

Agreed, and when they have no work left to do–they’d be sidelined!
@MysteryKat25 wrote:

As for any pairings, hopefully they’ll show people what they need to see in order to get to the “not happy but don’t hate them with a passion and lose respect for a character” stage for anybody who doesn’t get the ship they want. I’ve seen people threaten to stop watching even which saddens me, especially since we’re miles away from endgame.

I feel the same way, especially about the last point. Let the ships fall where they may and enjoy the journey. The writers are not solely concerned about how scenes alter a ship or not the way fans might be. Sometimes they have other goals in the scenes they write. So characters are growing to change and grow, and they may even alter the endgame the writers have in mind right now. Within the show, we can interpret all that as characters needing to go on a journey to be ready to love and be the person who can love whoever they are with (if anyone) at the end of the story (kind of like that show “How I met your Mother”…where Morrison played a guest star role).

I think of the way the show presents Emma’s love life, and the “redemption potential” of various characters as akin to an optical illusion where what you see depends on how you look at it ( another HIMYM reference, it can be hard to tell if someone is a duck or a rabbit). So it can be fun to discuss what scenes lead people to see what they do.

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

[MysteryKat25]

KFChimera – agreed on all counts (and I love your name! not sure if I’ve mentioned that!)

As I just posted in another thread, I think the writers enjoy putting parallels into both the SwanFire & CaptainSwan relationships to Snowing especially and people see what they want to see which is why some only see the parallels in one pairing and some see it in both.

I think they do this for 2 reasons:

1. It gives everybody something to like (the shippers are VERY divided over this clearly but it gives us all moments to hold onto)

and more importantly…

2. It needs to evolve organically: we need to be able to BELIEVE that Emma would fall for whoever, or might legitimately be torn between the two. I firmly believe before they throw her with anybody, even if it’s just a brief fling, that we’ll be shown something specific / direct that makes us understand because Emma is the least likely person to forgive and believe in somebody right away (part of what scared her so much with Hook and why she tied him up saying she wanted to trust him but couldn’t take a chance she was wrong about him). She’s also much more strong-willed than MM was with the Dr. Whale thing so I don’t see her going down that path either.

Emma’s love life isn’t her primary focus and it’s gonna take a lot to move her in that direction when so many other things are going on. I’m sure we’ll get many adventures involving various people along the way because it’s just not the most important thing going on right now. She makes a great team with both of them and I can’t wait to see more of that so we have more to go on.

Jane Espenson said in her interview yesterday (it’s posted around here somewhere) that she gets the same amount of feedback from the audience loving Neal & hating Hook as she does loving Hook & hating Neal. The audience truly is very split on this (which I totally understand as I am torn occasionally) which means that for everybody out there who hates something with a passion, there is someone else who loves it. It’s a good way to get people invested in the show and trust me I know what it’s like to be on the losing half of that, but I do love the journey we’re on and the chance to see it play out, whichever way they go with it.

Right now we don’t have all the information. We haven’t seen the entire story play out. There’s more to EVERY character on the show than we’ve seen already and some of the things we learn along the way may drastically change how we feel about various people. The thing I loved most about Lost (and now Once) is the characters who CHANGED MY MIND. There were many I didn’t care for at first I ended up loving and vice versa. I’m curious to look back someday and see what we were all saying about various characters along the way and where we ended up.

For now let’s enjoy the ride and just agree:
we all want the best for Emma, whatever that may be.

Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.

[rapunzel_is_a_ginger]

I’m not sure if this is the right place to post this since the conversation seems to have taken a turn, but I noticed something when I re-watched episodes from season 1. In the pilot, Regina reminds Emma that it was a closed adoption and that she wanted no contact, but when Emma is talking to Ashely/Cinderella later on, Emma makes a big speech about how everyone thinks they can tell you what to do when there’s a baby involved. What if Emma didn’t exactly want to give Henry up for adoption, but was convinced it was for his best benefit and then decided giving him up was a “closed door”? Isn’t that essentially the same choice Neal was forced to make in Tallahassee, with the same consequences?

To me, the show is all about parallels and perception. From Emma’s POV she was abandoned, and Henry could easily have viewed the adoption the same way, even though he says he forgave her. If we see Neal’s actions as a parallel to Emma’s, does that win him any more sympathy?

(Love the name, KFChimera, too, btw…lol)

[schmacky]

If we see Neal’s actions as a parallel to Emma’s, does that win him any more sympathy?

To me, not really, no. He could have left her. Just left her. But, he set her up to be arrested. That’s cold. And was unnecessary. Even if August and Neal thought Emma would follow him… they could have done other things than put her in prison. It was just… no.

As far as Emma being “convinced” about giving up Henry… I think they made it pretty clear in The Price of Gold that there was a lot of persuasion done when Emma made her decision to give away Henry. I think she gave him up ultimately because she knew she couldn’t provide for him at her age but I think she came to that conclusion because counselors and social workers and the like probably pushed her that way.

“You’re 17/18 years old Emma. How are you going to take care of him? You don’t have a job. You don’t have a place to live. You don’t have any skills. You don’t have an education. You have a criminal record. What can you give him? You were in the foster system, you know how difficult it can be. Are you going to put your baby through that? He is going to be in the system for a few months while you serve out the rest of your sentence. But, he doesn’t have to go through what you went through. You can give him a better option right away. Give him up for adoption and he’ll go to a nice and loving home right from the start. Let him have a real chance at a family, a closed adoption is the cleanest way to do it.”

I can definitely see a bunch of people giving her that speech.

[rapunzel_is_a_ginger]

Ah, good point about him letting her go to jail. 🙂

I guess its just always been my head canon that August either made the call or convinced Neal to do it, considering how callous he seemed about her going to jail and how upset Neal was at the end. I’m hoping SBT will show something to clear that up, because August has a lot to answer for…

[kfchimera]

I need to rewatch those August/Neal scenes. I thought that August sold the decision to send her to jail as some kind of “tough love” to put her on the right path. There are some incarceration facilities that make rehabilitation as much a focus as restriction of freedoms. Still I agree, it is hard to imagine how someone in love could so easily (as it appeared) be convinced jail was the best solution to turn someone’s life around.

Of course, back then we had no idea what was in August’s box. I assumed it was something that made his decision make more sense even for a man in love, a kind of noble sacrifice like what Snow & Charming did when sending Emma in the wardrobe. Now that I know what it was, I have to wonder, how much of Neal’s acquiescence to the idea was driven by his fear of his father and how much by some kind of belief in the inevitability of fate, and how much by love. The romantic part of me wants to believe he was honest about trying to help her because he truly wanted what was best for her even if it was not best for him, but I don’t think that was his only reason.

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

[heatherc1275]

I have a feeling several of our questions about Neal’s decision and what all happened between him and August are going to be answered in episode 2×18 (Selfless, Brave, & True). Those are things I’ve been wondering about since Tallahassee and I would really like to see some answers because I’m still ready to turn August into kindling for his part in everything. 😉

#MoreBOOMLessGloom

[lisas]

@HeatherC1275 wrote:

I have a feeling several of our questions about Neal’s decision and what all happened between him and August are going to be answered in episode 2×18 (Selfless, Brave, & True). Those are things I’ve been wondering about since Tallahassee and I would really like to see some answers because I’m still ready to turn August into kindling for his part in everything. 😉

I think you’re right we are going to get some answers in episode 2×18. I think August may have known that Emma was pregnant when he met up with Neal in Vancouver because he was awful determined to make sure that Neal wouldn’t try to find which facility Emma was in. I’m inclined to think that August may have had a hand whoever persuaded Emma to put Henry up for adoption & then made sure Emma’s son was adopted by someone in Storybrooke. I think had Neal found out about Emma’s pregnancy he would never have left her and would have wanted them to be a family.
Neal/Bae just strikes me as the type of person who wouldn’t just abandon the woman he loves or his child based on what he went through himself as a child.

Keeper of Neal/BaelFire's Blood Magic, Neverland Crossbow, FTL Clothes,Room at Granny’s, Charming & Emma’s Father/Daughter Hugs, Henry's Neverland Crossbow, Rumplestlitskin/Mr.Gold's FTL Walking Stick

[rapunzel_is_a_ginger]

@HeatherC1275 wrote:

I would really like to see some answers because I’m still ready to turn August into kindling for his part in everything. 😉

You and me both! 😎

@LisaS wrote:

I think you’re right we are going to get some answers in episode 2×18. I think August may have known that Emma was pregnant when he met up with Neal in Vancouver because he was awful determined to make sure that Neal wouldn’t try to find which facility Emma was in. I’m inclined to think that August may have had a hand whoever persuaded Emma to put Henry up for adoption & then made sure Emma’s son was adopted by someone in Storybrooke. I think had Neal found out about Emma’s pregnancy he would never have left her and would have wanted them to be a family.
Neal/Bae just strikes me as the type of person who wouldn’t just abandon the woman he loves or his child based on what he went through himself as a child.

How Henry got to Storybrooke has always been one of my biggest unanswered questions. There HAD to be someone on the outside to help arrange things because didn’t Mr. Gold say in “Tiny” that he’d never been outside of Storybrooke, or was it just that he had never been on a plane? Either way, someone had to bring Baby Henry to town and it had to be someone In The Know about who he was and who Emma was, because Gold never got his memories until after Emma came to town and Regina didn’t know that Emma was the Savior right away either. August and Gold never dealt with one another directly, since Gold didn’t recognize him in “Return,” (or did he?) but August didn’t exactly deal with Emma directly when he sent Neal packing either…

I’ve heard there are deleted scenes with August adding on to Henry’s book that are staged at Jefferson’s house, and scenes between the two of them. I’ve tried searching online but can’t find them. Maybe those two were the connection? ❓

Sorry, morning coffee not working yet…

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