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Neal obviously did NOT consider that the price might be his life. He also firmly believed that his father was stronger than the witch and capable of remaining outside of her control. Yes, he dismissed the costs when he shouldn’t have, but he was still in partial ignorance when he used the key. That shifts more of the blame to Zelena in my opinion, and obviously Rumple agrees–because that is what he yells at her when she shows up. And she responds with “Oops,” in a clear admission that she is partially at fault. I’d put it at 60% Zelena, 10% Lumiere, and 30% Neal. But on my spreadsheet you basically get chalked up 1 per death you’re involved in. Which is why right now I’ve got Rumple and Snow each taking a hit for Cora’s death (but not Regina–hmm, what was my thinking then? Actually, similar to now–she didn’t KNOW that’s what she was doing, just as Neal didn’t know he was killing himself).
Regina was given her mother’s heart by Snow White, a person who has done nothing to warrant mistrust on Regina’s part, since there was no history of Snow ever A) tricking someone into killing someone else B) using dark magic, before this incident. Neal, on the other hand, knew that the Wicked Witch was an enemy, and never should have trusted that all was as simple as it seemed. And just because he didn’t consider it doesn’t mean he’s off the hook. He should have considered that there was a reason the Witch wasn’t turning the key herself. His failure to stop and think (or listen to Belle) is what led to his death. He allowed his arrogance and impatience to override his common sense.
Rumple ‘agrees’ because the writers have made it so. Plus, of course he wants to blame Zelena; he’s not going to blame his son for his own death just before it happens. And “Oops” is not a clear admission, but even if it was it’s only because the writers need Zelena to be the big-bad this series.
What I mean is that I’m looking at this situation by separating my attachment to the characters and disregarding the way the writers want us to see these events, and am just looking at the actual events which took place. By doing this I’ve concluded that Neal is more at fault than anyone else in this situation. Try doing this yourself to make sure your attachment to Neal isn’t clouding your judgement;
Daniel and his friend Maria are told by a magic lamp that his father, Colin, can be resurrected by using a hidden key in the door of a hidden vault. Daniel and Maria decide to trust the magic lamp and make plans to depart in the morning in order to find the vault. The next day, after reaching the vault, it comes to light that the whole thing is a trap, cooked up by their enemy, the Wretched Wench. The Wench’s plan is to use Daniel to resurrect his father, so that she may control his father and use him for evil. Upon hearing this Maria is certain that resurrecting Colin is the wrong thing to do and gives Daniel several good reasons why she has come to this conclusion. Daniel, however, dismisses Maria’s concerns stating that he believes his father is strong enough to resist the Wench. “What if he’s not”, asks Maria, “To hell with the costs” replies Daniel. So, despite knowing that the whole thing is a ploy by the Wench, Daniel puts the key in the hole and turns it.
It turns out that the ‘cost’ of doing so is Daniel’s life.
[adrotate group="5"]"so there’s this new show….."
"there’s lesbians in it"I totally agree, seemed an odd change of character for Neal, one minute he hates magic (especially dark magic) the next he doesn’t care about the consequences and resurrects Rumple anyway………………..hmmmmmmm
I totally agree, seemed an odd change of character for Neal, one minute he hates magic (especially dark magic) the next he doesn’t care about the consequences and resurrects Rumple anyway………………..hmmmmmmm
Yes, I thought so too. Although I really liked the episode I’m starting to see why some fans are calling out the writers for bad/lazy writing. Seems like they wanted the events surrounding Neal’s death to be Zelena’s fault, but didn’t actually want her to kill him herself.
Why, if they wanted his death to be the Witch’s fault, did they have Neal and Belle discover the set-up? Why didn’t they just have Neal fall for the trap, or have him reluctantly play the chivalrous hero by using the key to stop the Witch from killing Belle?
"so there’s this new show….."
"there’s lesbians in it"To dismiss what characters say simply because you disagree with the writers is to ignore major parts of what happened. What a character believes is not necessarily the truth…but it’s not irrelevant, nor is it not part of the story.
I do agree it was a bit OOC for Neal to go for the magic solution instead of looking for something else, but the writers who created the characters said this is what he did at this point in his existence. They gave reasonable motivations for it, if not entirely convincing ones, and so that’s the story. Rumple and Zelena both behaved as if, within the story’s moral framework, Zelena was the one who bore the guilt for what happened.
I’m not absolving Neal (or the writers) for Neal’s mistake. What I am saying is that it’s ridiculously to dismiss Zelena’s guilt here. Neal’s death is at least in large part due to her intervention.
Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing
To dismiss what characters say simply because you disagree with the writers is to ignore major parts of what happened. What a character believes is not necessarily the truth…but it’s not irrelevant, nor is it not part of the story.
This was the dialogue just after the Neal turned the key;
Zelena; “Poor Baelfire., he just couldn’t learn from his father’s mistakes. He wanted so badly to get back to his son; couldn’t see the forest from the trees”
Rumple; “You did this. You tricked him.”
Zelena; “all I did was pass on some vital information, with the help of a friend. And your son did the rest”
Rumple; “You didn’t tell him the price”
Zelena; “Oops. It’s a sin of omission, love. Although I’d have thought it was rather obvious; a life for a life.”
Rumple; “It’s going to be alright son”
It’s clear Rumple is angry at Zelena’s for the part she played in his son’s death, but Zelena seems to be saying what I’ve been saying; that Neal acted rashly without thinking, despite all he’s seen and experienced concerning magic.
I do agree it was a bit OOC for Neal to go for the magic solution instead of looking for something else, but the writers who created the characters said this is what he did at this point in his existence. They gave reasonable motivations for it, if not entirely convincing ones, and so that’s the story. Rumple and Zelena both behaved as if, within the story’s moral framework, Zelena was the one who bore the guilt for what happened.
I understand what you’re saying, but just because the characters and writers have assigned guilt doesn’t mean that it gets to automatically override our own human inner-judgement when it comes to the big picture. The more I’ve discussed this point the more I’ve come to realise that this episode (as much as I like it) is either poorly conceived or the writers are allowing some wiggle-room for Zelena to be redeemed. Also, the more I discuss the point and analyse that part of the episode the less I believe Zelena is guilty of much when it comes to Neal’s death.
I’m not absolving Neal (or the writers) for Neal’s mistake. What I am saying is that it’s ridiculously to dismiss Zelena’s guilt here. Neal’s death is at least in large part due to her intervention.
I’m not dismissing the immorality behind Zelena’s intentions. She obviously played a devious hand in getting Neal and Belle to the location of the vault, and was guilty of intentionally building their hopes up when it came to Rumple’s resurrection. This is not the point I’m arguing. If Neal and Belle had not discovered the Witch’s plans then she would have to bear the majority of the blame for the inevitable outcome. However, the outcome was far from inevitable after the discovery of the plot, and it was Neal’s actions, after finding out about Zelena’s part in the plan, which ultimately led to his death. Upon discovering Zelena’s part in the set-up Neal was presented with several different options; walking away for good, walking away and returning with Regina (who would have had a vested interest in resurrecting Rumple too), or recklessly going ahead with opening the vault regardless of the potential consequences, to name but a few.
His knowledge of the Witch’s intentions and of her unwillingness to open the vault herself seriously decreases the significance of the Witch’s role in his death.
"so there’s this new show….."
"there’s lesbians in it"Okay, I’ve rethought my stance on this a little bit.
Whilst Zelena DOES have a part to play in Neal’s death, it is only in so far that she made it happen sooner.
If we take Zelena and Lumiere out of the equation, chances are that Belle and Neal would’ve discovered about the vault of the dark one through research. They would’ve still have found the key (unless Zelena planted it there) therefore they would’ve still gone to the vault in the woods, it just would’ve taken them longer.
The only reason Belle hit the brakes on resurrecting Rumple was because Lumiere slipped up. Now this could go either way. Either Belle would’ve discovered the cost of bringing back Rumple through research or she wouldn’t have come across it at all.
Assuming that Belle and Neal didn’t come across the price, Neal would’ve still stuck the key in the door and brought back Rumple meaning Neal died.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixBut dont we blame her for her actions and the intentions behind them and not the outcome? The outcome will I believe always (or mostly) be the result of multiple peoples intentions and actions.
And if so the blame will be the same regardless of what result come from “evil” intentions.
This is a very philosophical discussion. I love those 🙂
Zelena’s intentions were bad but she didn’t physically force Neal to use the key. Neal could’ve walked away.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of Felix
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