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Going to chirp in with my two cents worth. While this is still my forum of choice and there are many great people here, it has changed over the past year or so and has become more or less a shipping forum.
Long gone are the interesting conversations about theorizing. Ships have taken over here as they have on most other forums/boards. If we are to be honest here, there are some (not everyone) that are obsessed by their ships. Personally, it’s been a real turn off for me and I’m finding myself frequenting the forums less and less. I’d even go one step further and admit that the obsessiveness over shipping, EVERYWHERE out in the fandom, continues to distance me from the show.
I think the writers are mostly to blame. They seem to be writing for the ships. They aren’t giving fans, who love to theorize, anything to go on these days.
The suggestion has been made, here in this thread, that one has only to stay away from the shipping threads. However, as Myril pointed out, when chatting about other “characters” on appropriate discussion threads, responses are made in relation to ships. There seems to be no way of getting away from it. I would also agree with her, that while everything seems to be quiet on the western fronts, there is no denying that this group is still suffering through a huge rift between SF and CS ships, as are all other forums, regardless of how polite everyone is being. It’s like we are walking around on our tippy toes.
I miss the days of long discussions, taking every little word K&H have uttered and using them to theorize & support out theories in regards to who a specific character may end up being (ex. AWB, Baelfire, Neal, Whale, Pan, Z, etc.). Again, I think this is the writers’ fault as they seem so intent on writer about ships.
This is just my personal opinion of course, but if I am going to be honest, I have to admit that the shipping is driving me crazy and turning me off the forums and the show.
Grabbing a larger beach umbrella and waiting for the tomatoes to hit. 🙂
[adrotate group="5"]Keeper of Pandora's Box & The Yellow Brick Road.
Oh no I agree that we’re Once Upon a Ship and the writers and the media are to blame in large parts. It didn’t really start until S2 and it got worse this past year. Been here as long as GK, I remember what this place used to be…
But I just don’t agree that it means we can’t have character discussions without “MY SHIP IS ENDGAME, SUCKAaaaaaah!” or “HOW DARE YOU INSULT MY PERFECT (insert character here)” It’s not easy but I think we could do it
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Rightly or wrongly, I do read other people’s posts with their bias in the back of my mind. If I know someone is ship-neutral, I’m less likely to feel defensive if they say something detrimental about my ship/fave character, because I know they’re not being influenced emotionally either way, they’re being more objective. But if I see someone with a known bias saying something, I will naturally assume that their bias is influencing their opinion and it’ll get under my skin more. And rightly or wrongly, I naturally assume that others feel the same about my posts too.
I admit to doing this, too. It’s just automatic and how I process information. Should I? Probably not, but that’s how I am.
Fans will always ship. In a fandom, if two characters are on screen together, or even never heard of each other, they’re going to be shipped together in some fashion by some faction of fandom. However, I do think it’s the writers’ faults for the continued animosity of the show. The tweets of “have faith” (meaning no way ever), “that’s not what I said” (I totally said that), or “keep watching” (we have no idea what’s going on), have fueled the shipping wars along with every article that comes out. They’ve contradicted themselves and obscured and twisted their words so much because they don’t want to offend a portion of fandom, but it’s just made everything worse. They’ve fanned the flames of a fire they were trying to extinguish.
In addition, the feel of the show show has changed. It’s just not the show it was in season one. It seems to me the whole group of writers and the showrunners should go back and rewatch season one. I’m finding I just don’t care about most of the characters anymore. I admit I do ship certain characters (Rumbelle and SF) but they’re not the only ones who’s writing has baffled me. I have problems with the show that go way beyond shipping. I used to be a glee fan. In that show, you can’t get too comfortable with your OTP because chances are they’re going to get together, break up, sleep with others, get back together, cheat, get pregnant, get back together. It was whiplash but I still enjoyed the show. So I can separate shipping from story. But when the story is subpar then that’s when the trouble comes.
I think this show is driving away viewers. It will be interesting after the premiere how ratings are going to be. A number of people, both shippers and non-shippers, have said they’re either giving up the show or not watching live anymore. Plot and characterization have taken a backseat to “bold” storytelling and flash. Now they’re bringing in “Frozen”, which I think they’re looking at to increase ratings, but could be a disaster if they handle it incorrectly.
I don’t know what’s going to happen in the future with this show. I know I miss the days of season one where people didn’t care about ships as fanatically (although I’m still traumatized by Golden Swaners). I find myself posting much less and I rarely chat about the show. If it weren’t for the friendships I’ve made here, I wouldn’t come at all. The show has just evolved into a different animal than it once was, I don’t see it ever returning to its origins.
Keeper of Rumplestiltskin's and Neal's spears and war paint and crystal ball.
Golden key hit the nail on the head. The mysteries to tease out no longer seem important, because the answers are generally “it was magic” or ” it does not matter, because the characters involved will never appear again” So Phillip and the wraith? Who cares. There are many more things like that. Then character moments that wind up offscreen, like Belle and Mo. So what does take up time? Ships, and new characters iconic enough to lure us in to see the display live action but I know no real depth will follow. We glimpse Dorothy and Rapunzel, the Wizard but unlike S1 side characters who are part of the town, partially scenery, partial recurring players, these are all meant to vanish. I doubt we will see Ariel or Eric, Tiny or others again, and if we did it will not connect at all to their earlier stories in a consistent way, but just not inconsistent like Cora apparently almost marrying Leo. That we see Archie also seems meaningless, or Grumpy as they never get stories to change them ( outside of a DVD extra maybe). Henry is a side character or object now, no longer feels like the heart of the show. It feels very check the box of fan demands to me. Like that Mirror VoiceOver cameo, hardly the follow up to Glass and his storyline, or a quick moment with Red. It does not feel like a tapestry any more, with the old lady Spinsters being some significant detail that plays out later. It was just a random thing, like Pan being a blacksmith. Details that will not be important continue to mount, with new story elements just dropped in from nowhere out of convenience ( hello black fairy wand, blood magic locks ( why would rumple not have locked the dagger with blood magic? When Cora was after it? ). We used to speculate answers with the hope that it would connect all the dots later, that future episodes would make previous ones clearer, but instead it kind of muddies or retcons certain things, to the extent things are not just ignored of course.
Maybe a new show will come along for it was interesting to discuss with you folks, once upon a time but this show seems more enjoyable if I think way, way “turn off your brain less” like Dark shadows or something.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
Golden key hit the nail on the head. The mysteries to tease out no longer seem important, because the answers are generally “it was magic” or ” it does not matter, because the characters involved will never appear again”
Yeah, the speculation side of things, coming up with crack theories, trying to put the puzzle pieces together, that’s been my fave stuff to do. It’s why I love spoilers, because it’s like getting clues to help figure out the mystery and guess which way the story might twist next. But when it seems that the writers themselves aren’t really interested in these things, it takes the fun out of the speculating because what’s the point in spending hours thinking about these things if, in the end, these questions will never be addressed in canon anyway.
I’m really not inspired right now to think too hard about what might be in store for S4. Have done some brief speculation regarding Elsa, but nothing like how I’ve gotten consumed with speculation about characters and potential story lines in the past. Maybe that’ll change as more info leaks, but right now I’m just not inspired because judging by past experience, there’s not much point getting invested in the speculating when more often than not there’s no payoff.
BUHUU!! KFC Its so sad .’´´>O<
‘.This was also what I loved so much about this show. I sometimes manage to forget how great a show I ‘believed’ it to be back then. Then I can manage to just enjoy it for what it is now…. But then comments like yours KFC comes along and reminds me..
*snifles*
Hmm, I have to agree on the shift in focus from “big picture” story arcs to ship-centered ones. However, I’ve got a theory forming as to how the various mini arcs eventually tie together (hopefully sooner than later) so maybe it will all have been for something, after all. As for writing for the shippers, they’re largely the ones who are making videos for Youtube, images for Tumblr, fan-fiction, ect. From a purely business perspective, it makes sense not to neglect them.
Shipping in Once, for me, doesn’t mean characters have to end up together ever or can’t be involved with other characters. It’s just my best guess at what I think is a good pairing and doesn’t mean I don’t care about other ships or see validity in them. I think a lot of shipper hate has to do with people believing that their personal beliefs of what love is or ought to be are challenged or threatened by the existence of other ships but, really, every “ship” has something different to say about some aspect of love. Maybe, if the discussion could be more centered around what each ship has to offer the big picture, rather than making it a winner-takes-all debate, ship threads would become more bearable?
I too miss the days of guessing which Storybrooke resident would end up being which character. Good times. *sigh*
"The Laws (of Magic) never bothered me anyway."
I was reminded yesterday how nasty the ‘ships debate can get when it comes to Emma that haters feel the need to harras a wonderful human being like Jennifer Morrison on twitter so bad that she felt compelled to write a lengthy post on her Facebook to defend herself.
This is us the ugly side of ‘shipping that can understandably turn off people from the fandom and watching the show altogether.
The actors do not need to be involved in our petty ‘shipper wars and I’m seriously appalled by anyone who attacked Jen yesterday. Because she doesn’t deserve it and the fandom doesn’t deserve her either.
That’s what upsets me the most that fans cannot talk about a characters arc without turning it into something ugly.
Emma’s a great character who’s been through a lot but I can recognize that she’s a character and Jen is an actress who’s only doing her job.
What happened yesterday makes me sad and angry and really ashamed to be called a Oncer. I’ve been doing this ‘shipping thing for a long time but this is honestly the worst I’ve ever seen this degree of hate happen.
I like to be able to talk about Emma as a character but often times it’s nearly inpossible to separate the ‘ship side of her story because it’s shaped who she is as a person but the minute people attack JMo or anyone else on the cast, I just want to scream or cry or both because they don’t deserve it.
The moment I watched JMo’s interview with Digitalspy knew we’re going to see the next useless and all wrong “shoitstorm” on Social Web. I have seen bad shipping wars inside Xena fandom, the love square of Xena, Gabrielle, Ares and Joxer, not to mention the tough fights about Gab and Xena being friends or lovers – it put me really off from getting more involved, though I kept track on things. The easy modern Social web makes it only a lot more visible and accessible for more people – before it happened on usenet, later as well the first forums, and on conventions mainly. What was even less noticed in public, because it was back in the days even less visible than wars between fans (letters to the showmakers were seldom published), are that in extreme it is not “just” about fans getting at each other throats but also at the throats of the showrunners, writers and actors. Due to Social Web that is something that now is becoming a lot more visible as it has become in a way easier to have (seemingly) better access to the folks making the shows. By now I sometimes wonder, when we would have to meet regularly in real life at theaters to watch our weekly dosage of fantasy, if it might get into the direction of what one can observe happening in the football (soccer for you Northamericans) fandoms – the main difference is, beside that to satisfy our passion we don’t have to meet in person that much so less chance to get into direct physical fights, that football fandoms are a especially masculine shaped subcultures with competition at their very core. It’s interesting though, how in TV fandoms people can get competitive about romantic pairings, as romances and relationship are seen kind of as an area of female expertise (I don’t think that women are any less competitive than men though, they just do it in a different way and maybe about different things).
It is simplifying to say, those are just some extreme individuals, that ignores social and group dynamics. Those extreme voices feel more entitled to get heard the more they have the impression they are voicing something that enough people share and support. They are very often wrong with what they like to claim,, that a majority or significant number of people does fully share their views, but they don’t act in total vacuum either. We act differently in groups than on our own, working each other up eventually. Moods can spread, even virtually (just recently a study was published about it).
Would take some of the attacks with a grain of caution, because trolls love these kinds of dynamics, it’s troll feeding ground. The more opposite views are the easier it is to rile up people. But sadly enough, some are definitely people who call themselves fans of the show.
¯\_(?????? ?)_/¯
Yesterday was stupid.
For those who are are currently upset, be it at JMo or at the fandom….this too shall pass. I know everything is rough right now. I wish we could have a summer away from these kind of things. Let’s just try to keep the peace *here*
I know both threads were talking about it with different points of view and both are angry but for different reasons. Let’s just try to remember that it’s a TV show and JMo is just a person doing her job. Her words are important but not gospel truth; her opinion matters because she does play Emma Swan, but what happens on screen also matters.
For people who are upset “at the other side” let’s all try to remember that before shipping we used to be friends. And have conversations that mattered. I know right now it’s not a happy place and who knows–maybe we’re broken beyond repair. But let’s try to rise above that nonsense and respect each other better than they do out there in the wilds.
I think it might be time for a love day.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"
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