Original Prince James with different heart?

[king arthur]

Near end of episode when Snow is reassuring David that he is not the same as his twin brother James, she mentions James’ heart is different.

Do you think original James literally had a different heart? Like maybe Cora had changes out his heart in the past, or maybe Cora gave the heart to King George so that he could control his son more.

[PriceofMagic]

I think Snow meant it figuratively but it is the classic nature vs nurture debate.

Two twin boys, from the same mother and father, sepearated at birth.

David remains with his parents whilst James is given to a king.

David lives on a farm which is struggling to survive and learns the value of hard work.

James lives in a castle which was probably doing reasonably well at the time, had servants and what he wants he gets.

David likely learnt the value of other people, the benefits of working together, the different skills people possess, more hands make less work, etc.

James likely learnt that people are expendable. There is always someone else willing to do what another person won’t, people are only valued by their usefulness, etc. George described Jack as another “dalliance” for James, so long as she was offering what James wanted she was useful but when she needed James to help her, he discarded her. (Makes you wonder what sort of life Abigail would’ve had if she’d had to marry the real prince James).

All magic comes with a price!

Keeper of Felix

[obisgirl]

I agree.

I think I kinda knew that the ‘James’ adopted by King George was going to end up being a jerk just because anyone raised by King George, I think would end up that way. Although, I was kind of hoping when Tiny’s brother attacked Jack, that he would have stepped in and tried to save her. But no, he just went right on pillaging and left her for dead.

[playarita]

The first thing that came to mind was Pudd’nhead Wilson where it basically looks into how nurture can affect nature (one’s birth). James and David were both born in the same humble circumstances as a farmer’s son. James was raised as a prince who seemed to have little parental instruction or discipline which could be due to his using his title to threaten those who might have wanted to discipline him. George never seemed to be that preoccupied about his son and only cared when he needed his son for a reason (slaying a dragon, marrying the princess for gold etc). Then there is the fact that we don’t know for how long James did not have a mother or even a mother-figure. Whereas David might have grown up in much different circumstances but his mother clearly taught him the importance of humility, hard work, honesty etc.

So I don’t think it is about the circumstance of the birth or lifestyle but how much involvement each had from their parent.

[Grimmsister]

David asked: What if it had been him instead of his brother that had been raised by King George- Would he have become the same person as James was ?
And Snow said -No, because she knows him and he has a different heart-
She believes he would still have turned out a good person, even if he had been raised by cruel, self righteous, smug people-
Hmm! I dont believe that. Do you ? But ofcourse Snow would. It’s that whole ‘You’re either born with a good soul or a bad soul’ discussion.

It’s really brilliant that they brought that up using two twin brothers raised differently. I only wish they would have elaborated more on that, but maybe they will in flashbacks. Would have been better if they had kept James alive, in my opinion.

[riddleraven]

@medchen wrote:

Hmm! I dont believe that. Do you ? But of course Snow would. It’s that whole ‘You’re either born with a good soul or a bad soul’ discussion.

I don’t know if even Snow believed what she said. She always tries to see the good in everyone. So I don’t think she thinks anyone is born with a bad soul. Therefore, she can’t believe that anyone is born with a good soul either. Of course, people aren’t always that logical with what they believe. Anyway, I think she just said that to Charming to reassure him and because she doesn’t like to think that he could’ve been as bad as the real James and maybe just because she has “blind, love-goggles on” like someone said on The Other Side of the Mirror podcast.

Nature vs Nurture is a big theme for this show. I think that biological parents and adoptive parents are a big part of that. What do you think the writers are actually trying to say about it? I think that they believe nurture determines who you are. Because “no one is evil for evil’s sake” in this show. But sometimes I wonder. Henry is most like The Charmings, and that’s his nature taking charge, not his nurture.

@medchen wrote:

It’s really brilliant that they brought that up using two twin brothers raised differently. I only wish they would have elaborated more on that, but maybe they will in flashbacks. Would have been better if they had kept James alive, in my opinion.

Yes, it would’ve been so much better if he was still alive. At least we got this much. We didn’t see him at all in the dragon/midas episode (The shepherd?) did we?

[Grimmsister]

We saw him get killed at the beginning. When he thought he had killed that other guy and turned his back on him to gloat with his friends.

I don’t think the writers are trying to answer the question ‘nature vs. nurture’ but just look at it from different ancles. And the adoption aspect ‘growing up out of your nature’ is one ancle. Henry for sure have some of his biological parents in him. How about Emma though, does she have any Charming attributes ?

You’re right Snow allways believes in the good in people. But maybe that makes her blind to some things. I don’t think she can comprehend the thought that David could have been as bad as his twin brother.
I think that it is a romantic idea that people are born with a surtain kind of ‘soul’ or heart or whatever. And I doo think that Snow believes in that.

[Daniel J. Lewis]

Remember the line, “Evil isn’t born, it’s made.”

[riddleraven]

So good shouldn’t be born either, it’s made.

[Author]

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