Parallels

[storyteller]

A couple of parallels from tonight:

1) When Neal abandoned his father and immobilized him with the squid ink did anyone else think of how Emma abandoned Hook on the beanstalk and how that came back to bite her.

Neal must sooner rather than later come to realization that he is his father’s son. The more he denies it the bigger the rift he has got to drop the anger or I fear Henry will fall into the family trap.

2) When Pan tried to tempt Henry with the music first time round he underestimated Henry in the same way Rumple did when he encountered the Mills women Cora and Regina.

 

 

[swanning-off]

We also saw this in the Enchanted Forest, with the emotional manipulation of Robin Hood to get what he wanted. Much like Emma denying that she is the product of Snowing, Neal needs to reconnect with the fact that Neal = Baelfire = Rumplestiltskin’s son = learnt a lot at the hands of the Dark One…..

[sweetgrass]

Another parallel, in Straight On Till Morning, Hook offered Bae the opportunity to be a family, to change, everything he had, and in tonight’s episode Rumple did the same.  In both cases, Bae said no.

Keeper of Hook and Emma's smoldering first kiss, a certain Pirate's sauciness, the Evil Queen's snarkiness, Grumpy's gruffness and a drop of true love to make it all go down smooth.

[Phee]

1) When Neal abandoned his father and immobilized him with the squid ink did anyone else think of how Emma abandoned Hook on the beanstalk and how that came back to bite her.

Neal must sooner rather than later come to realization that he is his father’s son. The more he denies it the bigger the rift he has got to drop the anger or I fear Henry will fall into the family trap.

Didn’t make the connection with the beanstalk. It just made me think of other times we’ve seen magical folks frozen, like when Cinderella did it to Rumple, and when Blue did it to Regina.

I dunno that Neal’s gonna descend into darkness or anything. I think that his using of magic and manipulation, and his desperation to get back to and save his son is gonna give him a new understanding of what his father went through in trying to find him, and I think that that level of understanding will be vital to Neal and Rumple healing their relationship. Because as it stands, Neal is all, “NOPE, can’t trust you coz you’re an obsessed, crazy, dangerous man on a mission,” and in time he’ll appreciate the lengths a desperate father will go to, because he’ll be doing things he normally wouldn’t as he tries to save Henry. He’ll do questionable things, but inspired by love, and he’ll realise that his father really did always love him as well. But Neal spent centuries in NL before without it corrupting his soul, so I’m not worried about him wandering too far down a dark path.

[rumbelledearie]

Another parallel, in Straight On Till Morning, Hook offered Bae the opportunity to be a family, to change, everything he had, and in tonight’s episode Rumple did the same. In both cases, Bae said no.

Ooooh, I didn’t even pick up on this! You’re right. It’ll be interesting to see all three of them together (hopefully we’ll get to see that eventually lol).

Didn’t make the connection with the beanstalk. It just made me think of other times we’ve seen magical folks frozen, like when Cinderella did it to Rumple, and when Blue did it to Regina. I dunno that Neal’s gonna descend into darkness or anything. I think that his using of magic and manipulation, and his desperation to get back to and save his son is gonna give him a new understanding of what his father went through in trying to find him, and I think that that level of understanding will be vital to Neal and Rumple healing their relationship. Because as it stands, Neal is all, “NOPE, can’t trust you coz you’re an obsessed, crazy, dangerous man on a mission,” and in time he’ll appreciate the lengths a desperate father will go to, because he’ll be doing things he normally wouldn’t as he tries to save Henry. He’ll do questionable things, but inspired by love, and he’ll realise that his father really did always love him as well. But Neal spent centuries in NL before without it corrupting his soul, so I’m not worried about him wandering too far down a dark path.

I like this a lot. I agree that this whole thing CAN bring Neal and Rumple closer, at least a little bit. Not only will Neal hopefully realize that sometimes parents will do irrational, crazy things when they love their kids so much, but PP is working to make sure Henry feels abandoned. And he’s succeeding. So Neal may very well have to deal with Henry not trusting him or believing him when they are finally reunited, just like Rumple has to deal with that with Neal/Bae.

I hope this does help them in the end. I was soooo hoping for a little progress last night, but they took one step forward and a thousand steps back lol. It’s going to be a loooong wait lol.

[kfchimera]

Neal didn’t just start screaming and yelling at Rumple the moment he saw him out of old hurt and anger.  Instead, they teamed up and he trusted Rumple with the secret of the squid to go get Henry.    It was not until Pan revealed that Rumple had motive to kill Henry, that Rumple tried to conceal, that Neal questioned whether he should trust his boy around his father.

I did see this as parallel to Hook, but in the sense that Hook too held something back with Bae.  He didn’t tell him he knew his mother and knew who he was when he met him.  Both Hook and Rumple tried to forge a relationship that shattered when Bae discovered their duplicity.  A  little honesty would have saved them a lot of trouble, just as Charming advised Rumple about how to how to win Belle’s love with honesty of the heart rather than merely avoiding flat-out-lies.  Both Hook and Rumple had struggled with wanting to kill someone important to Bae, and both tried to hide that from him.  They didn’t trust him to understand in both cases they wanted to give up on that for him.  That reminds me of Henry Jr. saying If you want me to believe in you, believe in me.

Trust is so important to a relationship and must be earned, and cannot be demanded.  Especially if there is a power imbalance, whether that is Dark One to women he wants to woo, and most especially parent to child, the party with more power must go more than halfway sometimes with patience and understanding because the other party has more to fear and lose.  If not, it might turn out like Henry. Sr’s relationship with Cora and Regina, constant forgiveness even when not earned.

I absolutely agree that  Neal indeed does need to handle his anger and hurt, but I felt the contrast in the way he dealt with Rumple before he knew about the lie and after showed that he did not react out of just stubborn unrelenting anger for a past wrong.  He asked Rumple to give him proof and unfortunately, Rumple had cut off his shadow to hide the dagger.  So Rumple could not assure him, so Neal felt he could not take the risk.

The risk is still real, because Rumple has the doll that symbolizes his own anger and abandonment issues, and is still under a curse.  Neal doesn’t worry (yet) that Rumple would kill him, but like Henry with  Regina, he worries whether his parent will protect the other ones he loves or seek to harm them to maintain power and control over him.

I found it interesting that Pan did not mention Regina, then Henry went from “Moms” to “mom” in reference to having lost his dad.  There might be a parallel of underestimating the Mills family here, so I’m rooting for Regina to put her dark heart aside and surprise Pan.  Yet I feel it will not be down to any one of them.

I think saving Henry will not be about physically getting to him, but being able to (besides having  a way home) mentally reassure Henry that he has a safe, loving home where people are not trying to kill each other or him.  Pan keeps his boys because they do not want to return, not just because they have no way to return.

(I am also still pulling for a certain mermaid to be a portal jumper and provide that ride home…but we’ll see.  I just want some REAL Belle to get in the action instead of Rumple’s conscious in the form of Belle).

 

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

[obisgirl]

A couple of parallels from tonight: 1) When Neal abandoned his father and immobilized him with the squid ink did anyone else think of how Emma abandoned Hook on the beanstalk and how that came back to bite her.  

Actually, I have to disagree here because  Emma did not give Hook a forewarning that she was going to chain him up.  Neal at least took the time to explain his reasons why he trapped Rumple.

[storyteller]

But the bad decision caught up with him despite that.  Emma was right in the season premiere they all have to be believers in order for it to work and Neal wasn’t a believer. Remember what Rumple said about taking a leap of faith when you have no evidence and Neal demanded evidence and refused to ask his heart.  Likewise when Emma abandoned Hook he reaffirmed his alliance with Cora and took Aurora’s heart and Emma and Snow nearly didn’t get home after That’s at least how I read it.

Custodian of Graham's darts, Rumple's spindle and Robin's quiver

[timespacer]

I agree with storyteller that these are all great parallels and they were certainly intended as such by the writers. But I also like the observation by kfchimera that some differences were added to the parallels – we weren’t served leftovers, but rather another serving of the same dish prepared with different seasonings. Most important is the observation that trust has to be earned. Emma would have been a fool to trust Hook at the beanstalk, but he is now earning her trust. Neal was willing to trust his dad until he learned he had lied about the prophecy. I loved Jeremy’s observation in the podcast that “The shadow took my dagger” sounds a lot like “The dog ate my homework”! Of course, from a purely practical standpoint, I think Neal should have considered that fighting Pan without Rumple’s help was a bigger threat to Henry than was his dad. But then, as Henry once observed, “…that wouldn’t be a very good story.”

[obisgirl]

Here’s an even deeper connection on why the two scenes don’t compare.  Emma’s only known Hook for ten hours.  They only recently met earlier that day.

Baelfire’s known his FATHER for 13/14 years.  They are family. Blood.  That really hurts. I felt for Rumple because this is his son who can’t even let go of his anger to see that his father has changed, he needs to hold onto that and put his father in a cage. And I really did not see any remorse on Neal’s part. He’s purposely leaving his family behind. Heck, I think he even said he’s taking Henry and leaving this island without him [Rumple].

I wouldn’t doubt that Neal planned all along to ditch Rumple.

I know most people on this board love Neal but I am not finding any reason to really love him this season.  I’m actually finding more reasons to really hate him.

[Author]

Posts