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I think Rumple loathes his cowardly, weak self. He needs power to pretend that he’s not that person. He feels naked and vulnerable without it.
[adrotate group="5"]I think the show has made a definite distinction between Regina’s character and Rumple’s regarding their ability to redeem themselves.
I read an interview with A&E that basically said not every villain is redeemable. It seems the decision was made that Rumple was going to be the villain who could not quite resist himself in season 4.
They have given themselves a literal black canvas in regards to Rumple. He has a white heart and we have no idea what damage the Darkness caused on his heart.
With Zelena still being in the mix, maybe they can start to truly work on Rumple’s character development, especially after Belle pointed out to him AGAIN that he could have had it all if only he tried.
I think Rumple loathes his cowardly, weak self. He needs power to pretend that he’s not that person. He feels naked and vulnerable without it.
I agree. I think there’s a lot of self-loathing going on with Rumple and he likes to project that onto other people (ie. Hook). It’ll be interesting to see how Rumple can/can’t survive next season. Can he go back to just being a normal person without magic/his power?
I think Rumple loathes his cowardly, weak self. He needs power to pretend that he’s not that person. He feels naked and vulnerable without it.
I think there’s a good deal of self-loathing with Rumple, to be sure, but up until a certain point, as a character, he was written in a way that was consistent, organic, and believable. Then there was the S4 arc with what @RG called out earlier in the thread — “I can haz all the powerz” — for absolutely no good reason that we can discern. This throws Rumple’s previous character development into the bin and makes for a deeply unlovable cardboard villain. I mean, someone give the guy a pitchfork already, and lets call it a day. I understand why people strongly dislike that aspect of Rumple, I do too. If that’s what the show wants to do with him,then I think they have lost the ability to write him in a compelling, interesting way. In that case, I’d rather they not bring him back from his stasis except for flashbacks.
HOWEVER. And here I am probably going to step in it, and then maybe go hide in the bushes (sorry @RG, feel free to [mod] at me if you feel it’s appropriate). But I am pretty disturbed and frustrated by the way people have been throwing around the “addict” label, both on this forum, and especially by the show creators and the general fandom. Yes, Rumple is portrayed as an addict. However, addiction is not a simple matter, and it isn’t just a matter of personal willpower — as many many sociological studies can attest (happy to cite if needed).
So the vilification of the figure of the addict, while perhaps psychologically pleasurable for all kinds of fraught reasons I’m not going to go into here, is something we maybe ought to be careful about. In other words, I am very very uncomfortable with the whole “Rumple=addict=devil=hate you=die already” narrative.
However, addiction is not a simple matter, and it isn’t just a matter of personal willpower — as many many sociological studies can attest (happy to cite if needed).
I get what you’re saying. For me, I think one of the things hindering a real look at addiction and breaking the cycle of addictive abuse on this show is that the writers haven’t built any sort of support system for addiction that isn’t magical handwavey/ plot devicey at worst and sped through at warp speed at best. Think about Regina. She was an addict too–in fact the writers showed her literally sniffing magic (a drug image if ever there was one) in S202 but yet her addiction to magic is never dealt with in any meaningful way. It just because something that she can use both for good and for bad but without any of the real world consequences that real life addicts would be going through. But with Rumple and the show, the writers harp on how much of an addict he is and then couple it with being a coward, self-loathing and being the devil/pure black hat. I’m not asking for AA (or the magical equivalent) to appear on the show but there needs to be something deeper than a magical hat sucking.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Was Rumple having Isaac rewrite his happy ending as the Light One his own misguided attempt to spare himself and others the consequences of his death of self (i.e. Rumple the man is no more, and only the Dark One remains)? While Rumple’s act was completely misguided and in line with his nasty habit of self-preservation, not to mention completely selfish of him to give the villains their happy endings at the expense of the heroes, Rumple “dying” caused the greatest darkness ever known to be unleashed and caused Emma to become the next dark one.
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
But “addict” is a word even Robert Carlyle, even Adam and Eddy have used in reference to Rumple.
“Because this has existed long before she came along and will probably exist long after she’s gone. This hat and this kind of quest for magic and power is so massive for him. This kind of addiction he has to it is huge.” [x]
I think Rumple does take pleasure in using magic. I mean, why do you think he was so determined to ‘separate’ himself from the dagger? He didn’t want to be the Dark One anymore but loved using magic and didn’t want to be held accountable for what he does. He loves his magic, he loved it more than Belle.
You see, you live a long time with something, you get comfortable with it and don’t want it to go away. Rumple’s lived 300 years with magic. He’s used to it, he’s comfortable using it and has no qualms about abusing it for his own selfish needs.
But being labelled an addict, absolutely should not excuse his behavior. He’s driven by his magic but he still has free will over what he does too. At the end of the day, everyone needs to be held accountable for their actions. Even Rumple.
But being labelled an addict, absolutely should not excuse his behavior. He’s driven by his magic but he still has free will over what he does too. At the end of the day, everyone needs to be held accountable for their actions. Even Rumple.
I don’t think it’s that he’s labelled an addict that’s the issue because I don’t think anyone denies that Rumple’s an addict. It’s what he does (and how the writers discuss his addiction) that’s the problem. Even if Rumple never did another bad thing ever again, he’d still be addict. You don’t stop being addicted to something just because you no longer partake in the thing that you’re addicted to. It’s that A and E’s expression of Rumple’s addiction (and only Rumple’s addiction) is that it makes him a very bad man who does very bad things and because he’s addict he’s also a bad person (and the devil himself as Eddy said once) but other people who are likewise addicted to magic (Regina, Cora, Zelena) aren’t the devil and aren’t likewise as heavily vilified. In fact in some cases they’ve been redeemed and can use light magic or general magic for whatever means but not have to suffer any consequences.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"So I had a random thought today: What if Emma or the Dark One (or both) wanted to kill Rumple? He just loopholed out of the DO curse, and he hurt Emma’s family before that.
So maybe we’re asking the wrong question 🙂
Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing
It’s that A and E’s expression of Rumple’s addiction (and only Rumple’s addiction) is that it makes him a very bad man who does very bad things and because he’s addict he’s also a bad person (and the devil himself as Eddy said once) but other people who are likewise addicted to magic (Regina, Cora, Zelena) aren’t the devil and aren’t likewise as heavily vilified. In fact in some cases they’ve been redeemed and can use light magic or general magic for whatever means but not have to suffer any consequences.
That is exactly it. I guess there seems to be a bit of a double standard for Rumple vs. other villains, in terms of how we, the audience, perceive them, and how much leeway we’re willing to give them. So I am curious about where that line gets drawn. Now let me be straight — RC is an awesome, hugely talented actor, and makes pretty gnarly characters likable, but I’m not a fan of S4 Rumple by any stretch, although I did love the character pretty much up until Neal’s death. But I think there’s a broader representational issue that goes beyond personal likes and dislikes of specific characters. Either Rumple is an “addict” i.e. someone struggling with a powerful psychosocial issue, or he is “the devil himself”. Conflating the two is problematic, not because we can’t think of the “devil” as representative of addiction or dependence (we can — that’s actually the primary symbolism of the devil in the Tarot, for example), but I don’t think the reverse move, that is demonizing addiction is going to do anyone any good. And this is precisely what’s happening with Rumple. He starts off as very human, with all the weaknesses and problems this entails (from psychological ones like cowardice, to social ones like poverty, to interpersonal ones like complicated relationships with his son and father), and then, suddenly, he’s the devil himself. By extension, this move potentially demonizes all the traits that Rumple came with in the first place, and I just don’t think that this is a good message — much in the same way that consent issues on OUAT should legitimately raise some eyebrows.
Yes! to lack of support system. I think, by default, it’s one’s loved ones, and Rumple has been fairly isolated from the get go. Which begs the question of whether putting the care of the addict onto the family is a legitimate move, but that’s an entirely separate conversation.
But being labelled an addict, absolutely should not excuse his behavior. He’s driven by his magic but he still has free will over what he does too. At the end of the day, everyone needs to be held accountable for their actions. Even Rumple.
I remember reading that same interview with RC 🙂 I think you’re spot on, Rumple shouldn’t be excused. My arguments are less about Rumple the character — I suppose I hope they manage to redeem him, but I think the writers are in such a deep deep hole with his characterization that I won’t be holding my breath anytime soon. My main problem is with the kind of message OUAT sends about addiction via Rumple the character, (see my rant above).
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