Peter Pan reached new levels of evil for me.

[Killian Jones]

We already knew he was one selfish twisted individual, but in this episode two things really hit me upon re-watching.

First the whole part where he had no regrets over leaving his son. The explanation is what got me he had no regrets because he could keep his son right next to him by his side trapped in a box for all eternity.

Next part was what he did to Henry, bad enough he was going to kill his great-grandson but now when he realized he couldn’t take Henry’s heart he was just going to kill him! It was like a for lack of a better term a magically evil temper tantrum. Finally when he’s beaten and Rumple is trapping him his massive instinct for self preservation kicks in yet again and he essentially leaves his own great grandson to be trapped in his place. I don’t know if I’m surprised he did all this but I guess looking back at what he did it is kind of astounding to me how evil Pan really is.

[RumplesGirl]

First the whole part where he had no regrets over leaving his son. The explanation is what got me he had no regrets because he could keep his son right next to him by his side trapped in a box for all eternity.

Yeah. And last episode he told Rumple he never forgot about him, but clearly PP didn’t give one iota.

I don’t know if I’m surprised he did all this but I guess looking back at what he did it is kind of astounding to me how evil Pan really is.

Is there redemption for Pan at all??? At this point…I just don’t know.

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[swanning-off]

Yes. Malcolm’s selfishness and bratty behaviour knows no bounds.

Want to fly. Can’t fly as must be a child. Can’t be a child with your own child there. Solution: get the creepy Shadow to take your child off somewhere where he won’t be your problem anymore. SIMPLE!

Want to stay young forever. Can’t. Work out a solution where he has to have the Heart of the Truest Believer. Spends hundreds of years hunting for said Heart. Finds it eventually and lies, connives and wheedles his way to getting what he wants…. in the process, emotionally tortures his now adult son, knocks out and kidnaps his grandson (for the second time!), manipulates his great-grandson, and captures his son in Pandora’s Box.

Pan is the epitome of of “look at all the f***s I don’t give.”

[RumplesGirl]

Great post, Swanning. 🙂

Which brings me back to my question: is there redemption for Pan?

Cora sorta got it.

GOAT sorta got it, by refusing to give Henry over to the Lost Boys

Rumple and Regina and Hook are heading down Redemption Road

But can MalcolmPan even get any sort of redemption at this point?

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[kfchimera]

Malcom is pretty bad and you add the messed up things Pan’s done and I think it is very unlikely.  His only goal is making himself happy and carefree, regardless of whether others have to suffer or not and the whole “game” thing he has going on highly suggests he prefers they DO suffer.

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

[once_dude]

I just want him to die!!!!!!!!

REdemption is a great theme, and being a Christian it is one that I love. But I don’t think Pan has the ability to feel for waht he has done. I think he is a psychopath.

But give me a break I once said that about Regina (and most of last season did not change my mind) but this season she really has come a long way.

So maybe for Pan but I would not want that.

It would be just too predictable narrative speaking since all the villains always get redeemed.

who will the final villain be if my first theory is right and he dies, or if rumples girls theory is right and eh gets redeemed? well thats another post entirely.

Magic always comes with a price, so I pay with visa.

[Killian Jones]

I think that’s my favorite thing about Pan he’s always been selfish, he’s just been twisted with it to the point where he does all these unspeakable things. I love the fact that we have a completely evil villain. He’s so far beyond any of the past ones on the show.

[Killian Jones]

Yes. Malcolm’s selfishness and bratty behaviour knows no bounds. Want to fly. Can’t fly as must be a child. Can’t be a child with your own child there. Solution: get the creepy Shadow to take your child off somewhere where he won’t be your problem anymore. SIMPLE! Want to stay young forever. Can’t. Work out a solution where he has to have the Heart of the Truest Believer. Spends hundreds of years hunting for said Heart. Finds it eventually and lies, connives and wheedles his way to getting what he wants…. in the process, emotionally tortures his now adult son, knocks out and kidnaps his grandson (for the second time!), manipulates his great-grandson, and captures his son in Pandora’s Box. Pan is the epitome of of “look at all the f***s I don’t give.”

 

perfectly said!

[Phee]

First the whole part where he had no regrets over leaving his son.

I think he did, even if only briefly, and it was a long time ago, (there was definite intense emotion on his face right after he transformed, as he watched the Shadow carry Rumple away). That tree wasn’t fueled by regret when we saw Malcolm climb it, back then it grew pixie dust, which was positive magic, so I have to wonder if Pan spent enough time in his Thinking Tree, wallowing in his regret, that the tree ended up absorbing all that negative energy, which is why the pixie dust flowers died out and the tree now grows vines that strangle people with their own regrets instead. So whatever remorse Pan might have had has left him, and now he just has no conscience left at all.

I think he’s too far gone for them to give him a redemption arc. The way he’s used and abused his family members, abandoning his son, keeping his grandson prisoner in NL for years, locking his son up in Pandora’s Box, and then attempting to kill his great grandson, is unforgivable.

I do wonder though if we might get an, “I’m sorry, laddie,” when Pan transforms back into Malcolm, right before he dies in Rumple’s arms.

[swanning-off]

I don’t think Malcolm can have a redemption arc. Even before he became Peter Pan, he was a selfish git who screwed up his life and his family – I mean, we can read between the lines of that episode. Mother Stiltskin left early on is my guess, sick of her husband spending all their money on grog and gambling (I have sympathy!) And Rumple, even though he was young, knew that his father was a feckless wastrel.

Yet Malcolm didn’t care. Given a magic bean, it wasn’t even let’s go to another realm where we can start again, it was let’s go to this place I went as a kid in my dreams where we can eat chocolate cake all day and fly. It’s all about him and his desires, not Rumple and Rumple’s needs which should be coming first as a parent (cf: Snowing putting Emma in the cupboard, even though it meant spending a lifetime apart, because it would keep her alive and break the curse)

You can’t redeem from that level of narcissistic selfishness. Not quickly. Unless Malcolm is going to be a recurring character for seasons upon seasons, he can’t have a redemption arc that is believable. And I don’t think he should. An integral part of fairytales have always been a lesson about morality – whether it’s tinged with religion or not (and I hope it’s not on OUAT), there is a lesson about acceptable behaviour in all fables and fairytales. Malcolm’s should be that if you put yourself first all the time and bugger the consequences, you’ll die alone and despised by all.

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