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I’ve been pondering this theory all day and I think there are a few distinct possibilities.
-It’s Rumple’s toy from his stint as a lost boy on the island (no relation to Pan)
-Pan and Rumple are siblings (or related somehow) and Rumple may or may not have been a Lost Boy at some point
-The doll belongs to someone else entirely that is related somehow to Rumple (and who he cares very much about)
I can’t say which one I’m going to give credence to- but I definitely think we’re going to see the Stiltskin family tree expand for a few reasons.
-Neal’s lines about how important family is to Rumple, coupled with the introduction of “blood magic” makes it seem like we’re going to see more of both in the near future. This definitely sounds like a setup where someone who was not previously known to be related is going to pick up an item and it will cause the magic to react.
-Sometimes, lines are set up with false information so they can be proven wrong in a surprising way later, so while this may be fishing for something that isn’t there, I found it strange that they specified Neal was Rumple’s “only” son. Why not just say “son”? It’s not incorrect, by a long shot, but it seemed suspicious in way that might me we’d find out he isn’t. Maybe a firstborn son met an untimely fate when Rumple was unable to do anything about it? And that’s why he was so ready to do whatever it took to ensure Bael’s wellbeing? Robin’s stated that nobody would claim to be Rumple’s son unless they were also made me raise an eyebrow.
That being said, I hadn’t even considered the possibility that Pan and Rumple were brothers. If that toy did in fact belong to them once upon a time (sure, why not- it looks like it’s made out of corn husks, but we can pretend it’s straw) I can definitely see a scene play out where the toy was taken from big brother Peter and given to little Rumple because Peter was “too old” for toys- triggering his desire for eternal youth.
However, it would be strange for parents to have children named “Rumplestiltskin” (that time period/land lends itself to some exotic names) and “Peter”. The accents (super British and super Scottish) also don’t match at all. But it Rumple was raised by Spinsters, who is to say he didn’t have an adopted brother or sister? If the two were raised as brothers, and end up resolving this conflict peacefully, perhaps it would be an opportunity for the show to mend some of the “blood relations trump adoptive family” issues people have found problematic.
[adrotate group="5"]"Nothing is easier than to denounce the evildoer; nothing is more difficult than to understand him."
-Neal’s lines about how important family is to Rumple, coupled with the introduction of “blood magic” makes it seem like we’re going to see more of both in the near future. This definitely sounds like a setup where someone who was not previously known to be related is going to pick up an item and it will cause the magic to react.
Yes, Neal’s line was totally foreshadowing IMO.
-Sometimes, lines are set up with false information so they can be proven wrong in a surprising way later, so while this may be fishing for something that isn’t there, I found it strange that they specified Neal was Rumple’s “only” son. Why not just say “son”? It’s not incorrect, by a long shot, but it seemed suspicious in way that might me we’d find out he isn’t. Maybe a firstborn son met an untimely fate when Rumple was unable to do anything about it? And that’s why he was so ready to do whatever it took to ensure Bael’s wellbeing?
The “only son” line is curious now that you mention it. I think though, that the scene in Manhattan where Rumple is talking about going to war, and then he and Milah are all smiley about the prospect of being able to start a family, they sound like people who haven’t had a child before.
That being said, I hadn’t even considered the possibility that Pan and Rumple were brothers.
Here’s what Barrie wrote about PP having a sibling…
Many nights and even months passed before he asked the fairies for his second wish; and I am not sure that I quite know why he delayed so long. One reason was that he had so many good-byes to say, not only to his particular friends, but to a hundred favourite spots. Then he had his last sail, and his very last sail, and his last sail of all, and so on. Again, a number of farewell feasts were given in his honour; and another comfortable reason was that, after all, there was no hurry, for his mother would never weary of waiting for him. This last reason displeased old Solomon, for it was an encouragement to the birds to procrastinate. Solomon had several excellent mottoes for keeping them at their work, such as “Never put off laying to-day, because you can lay to-morrow,” and “In this world there are no second chances,” and yet here was Peter gaily putting off and none the worse for it. The birds pointed this out to each other, and fell into lazy habits.
But, mind you, though Peter was so slow in going back to his mother, he was quite decided to go back. The best proof of this was his caution with the fairies. They were most anxious that he should remain in the Gardens to play to them, and to bring this to pass they tried to trick him into making such a remark as “I wish the grass was not so wet,” and some of them danced out of time in the hope that he might cry, “I do wish you would keep time!” Then they would have said that this was his second wish. But he smoked their design, and though on occasions he began, “I wish—” he always stopped in time. So when at last he said to them bravely, “I wish now to go back to mother for ever and always,” they had to tickle his shoulder and let him go.
He went in a hurry in the end because he had dreamt that his mother was crying, and he knew what was the great thing she cried for, and that a hug from her splendid Peter would quickly make her to smile. Oh, he felt sure of it, and so eager was he to be nestling in her arms that this time he flew straight to the window, which was always to be open for him.
But the window was closed, and there were iron bars on it, and peering inside he saw his mother sleeping peacefully with her arm round another little boy.
Peter called, “Mother! mother!” but she heard him not; in vain he beat his little limbs against the iron bars. He had to fly back, sobbing, to the Gardens, and he never saw his dear again. What a glorious boy he had meant to be to her. Ah, Peter, we who have made the great mistake, how differently we should all act at the second chance. But Solomon was right; there is no second chance, not for most of us. When we reach the window it is Lock-out Time. The iron bars are up for life.
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/1332/1332-h/1332-h.htm
Given that one of the staples of this show is family angst, I’d be surprised if they didn’t include the bit about PP having a younger brother, and that playing into his issues and how he became who he is, (we know there’ll be a story to how PP got to be the twisted little villain he is). Having his origin story be something completely separate means introducing yet more characters to tell his family backstory. If he’s Rumple’s brother though, it’s two for the price of one and they can tell their childhood stories at the same time, so from a logical standpoint, it makes sense to keep the storytelling more concise IMO.
And I think it could be an interesting story if a pair of brothers were both doomed to become these villainous, controlling beings, both wielding their daggers and manipulating people for centuries. How and why were they doomed to begin with? Are they both victims of a bigger bad setting them up? Did it have something to do with their father having wronged someone powerful, which resulted in his family being cursed?
Some people think it’d be jumping the shark with yet another family connection. I tend to think that it could be a great climax to the crazy family tree, and after that, there’s no more crazy branches added.
Neal’s lines about how important family is to Rumple, coupled with the introduction of “blood magic” makes it seem like we’re going to see more of both in the near future. This definitely sounds like a setup where someone who was not previously known to be related is going to pick up an item and it will cause the magic to react.
Yes that line really stood out, especially as Rumple in this episode left the family he has left on the JR. I think it was total foreshadowing.
Sometimes, lines are set up with false information so they can be proven wrong in a surprising way later, so while this may be fishing for something that isn’t there, I found it strange that they specified Neal was Rumple’s “only” son. Why not just say “son”? It’s not incorrect, by a long shot, but it seemed suspicious in way that might me we’d find out he isn’t. Maybe a firstborn son met an untimely fate when Rumple was unable to do anything about it? And that’s why he was so ready to do whatever it took to ensure Bael’s wellbeing? Robin’s stated that nobody would claim to be Rumple’s son unless they were also made me raise an eyebrow.
Hmmm. I don’t know. I don’t find this to be suspicious. I think it’s just reinforcing the idea that Bae is all Rumple had. He didn’t have other children, just Bae, who’s existence is really Rumple’s driving force.
However, it would be strange for parents to have children named “Rumplestiltskin” (that time period/land lends itself to some exotic names) and “Peter”. The accents (super British and super Scottish) also don’t match at all. But it Rumple was raised by Spinsters, who is to say he didn’t have an adopted brother or sister? If the two were raised as brothers, and end up resolving this conflict peacefully, perhaps it would be an opportunity for the show to mend some of the “blood relations trump adoptive family” issues people have found problematic.
Yes the two could have been raised as brothers. We know they like to play with non blood family.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"I like the theory about Rumple and Peter Pan being brothers. It fits the family theme of the series and it makes for more compelling story lines if they are indeed brothers instead of just villains who happen to have met before.
Of course I would’ve been happy with Rumple being Regina’s father too. I love the gnarled and twisted family tree that OUAT is growing.
Hm I’m not sure why, but the idea of Peter Pan being Rumple’s foster brother at the Spinsters appeals more to me than them having been brothers by birth. I apologize I cant articulate why I find the idea of Rumple and Pan being related as brothers so unappealing to me, even though I started a joke thread on how is Pan on the family tree!
LoneBamf, of the things you talked about, the notion that Rumple might have another child that *he* did not know about could be interesting. I think the timing would work actually for Rumple to be Pan’s father. Rumple was an older father to Bae, and while I don’t think he and Milah had kids, well, the truth is a dad’s biological role in fatherhood is rather limited. I think Rumple could have possibly had a relationship, not realized he was leaving behind a little something in the oven, and that child grew up fatherless and resentful. Emma was a teen mother, so what if Rumple was unknowingly a teen father?
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
I originally thought the doll had something to do with Bae, but now I’m starting to lean in the other direction- that it has something to do with Rumple’s childhood. However, I still don’t think Pan and Rumple are related or that Rumple had been a lost boy once. I think Pan just somehow got a hold of something from Rumple’s past- he’s extremely manipulative like that.
Thinking some more about this “blood magic” stuff, I do suspect that it’ll pop up in NL past, in a scene with Rumple and PP, and whatever PP does will be a memory that Rumple draws on later in life when he’s conjuring up some blood magic of his own.
Emma was a teen mother, so what if Rumple was unknowingly a teen father?
It’s an intriguing possibility, but I’m not really on board, mostly because it would mean that PP has been in NL for a lot less time than I’ve been imagining.
If we say that Rumple was 35 – 40ish when Bae was born, then if he was a teen father as well, that was only 20ish years beforehand, and PP is supposed to be 15ish, which means he got to NL only about 5ish years before Bae was born, and had only been there for 20ish years (FTL time) by the time 15 year old Bae arrived in NL too. Even if NL time passes at a faster rate than in FTL, that’s still not a huge amount of time that builds up PP’s reign and power to mythic proportions.
If he’s Rumple’s older brother, and let’s say he went to NL when Rumple was still a baby, then he’s up to 15ish years older than Rumple. Rumple’s age when he became the Dark One is 50ish. Subtract the 15ish age of PP when he left FTL, and you’ve got 35ish years (FTL time) in NL by the time Bae arrives, which is an extra 15 years on the equation in the previous paragraph.
Then if we say that 1 year FTL time = 2 years NL time.
20 years FTL time = 40 years NL time.
35 years FTL time = 70 years NL time.Basically, assuming my math isn’t way off, (which it might be, because math isn’t my thing and the t-word is dangerous), having PP be the older brother, instead of Rumple being his father, would just about double the length of time PP has been controlling NL.
f we say that Rumple was 35 – 40ish when Bae was born, then if he was a teen father as well, that was only 20ish years beforehand, and PP is supposed to be 15ish, which means he got to NL only about 5ish years before Bae was born, and had only been there for 20ish years (FTL time) by the time 15 year old Bae arrived in NL too. Even if NL time passes at a faster rate than in FTL, that’s still not a huge amount of time that builds up PP’s reign and power to mythic proportions. If he’s Rumple’s older brother, and let’s say he went to NL when Rumple was still a baby, then he’s up to 15ish years older than Rumple. Rumple’s age when he became the Dark One is 50ish. Subtract the 15ish age of PP when he left FTL, and you’ve got 35ish years (FTL time) in NL by the time Bae arrives, which is an extra 15 years on the equation in the previous paragraph. Then if we say that 1 year FTL time = 2 years NL time. 20 years FTL time = 40 years NL time. 35 years FTL time = 70 years NL time. Basically, assuming my math isn’t way off, (which it might be, because math isn’t my thing and the t-word is dangerous), having PP be the older brother, instead of Rumple being his father, would just about double the length of time PP has been controlling NL.
That was kind of a thing of beauty.
I think them being adopted brothers is also a big possibility; it would reduce the family tree tension but still give nods to the original story and to all the drama they’ve set up so far. Families come in all different sizes and types and it’s something they like to play with.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"
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