Peter Pan

[RumplesGirl]

They don’t explore his background so he doesn’t really get a reason why he is like he is besides the snippets through dialogue. However on the grand scale of evil, Pan’s plan was rather small.

A small plan does not negate the amount of evil.

The shadow showed him a big hourglass and said once it runs out he will die. Pan’s life was in danger in that if he did nothing he’d die. The shadow showed him a countdown to his death, obviously Pan wanted to stop that. Whether he was right to or not if he had the chance is its own discussion point.

Which Pan brought on himself by breaking the rules of Neverland. By choosing to stay, he violated laws and his doom was the consequence.

They stopped sending children up chimneys and down mines for a reason. Is slaving in front of a fire day in day out for a blacksmith really any better for a child? It’s hardly a paper round

Smithys everywhere in “medieval” times (such as what ONCE is) just wept. Or…people who still practice this today. Sending children down chimneys and mine causes black lung disease. Also: historical reality of ONCE is not the historical reality in which we live. When did they stop sending those kids down? 20th century? In the EF in the 20th century? Do they operate under the same understandings of what is inhuman and not child safe?

Malcolm could’ve just took the bean off of Rumple, he didn’t need to take him to Neverland with him.

you have to be a child to get there

Also Malcolm did just want to be rid of Rumple, but why not leave him in the woods or sell him off to be an apprentice? Why go through the trouble of at least finding Rumple a decent home? To ease a guilty conscience perhaps?

I wouldn’t say he went through any trouble. From the reaction of the spinsters, this is obviously something Malcolm did frequently.

Pan had to sacrifice the heart of the thing he loved most, he said so himself about love “it doesn’t just come from romance or family, it can also come from loyalty and friendship”. Pan himself brought up friendship so I think Pan did consider Felix a friend, however Pan, being the selfish character that he is, put his own goals above others.

Yes it came from the loyalty Felix gave pan, not the loyalty and friendship Pan felt for Felix.

Pan let the other lost boys do what they want yet they aren’t as loyal to Pan as Felix is. They gave Pan up on the promise of a home from Emma (which is unclear whether or not she delivered on). Also Felix wasn’t affected by Pan’s pipe music (though it wasn’t explained why). I think there is more to it than just Pan let Felix do what he wants.

They were also much younger. It’s very hard to say why the Lost Boys turned on Pan because we know NOTHING about them or Felix for that matter. We dont know what their lives were like or families or why Felix was devoted. We got nothing on them.

I agree. Perhaps Hook was involved in trapping Wendy in Neverland?

While that might be a dirty job, it’s not work—ie: more than one job.

[Jenna_B]

I agree, what sets someone like Pan aside, is the fact that there is little motivation needed for him to do what he feels needs to be done so his own needs and desires are met – no matter who or what suffers as a result.  But to me, this doesn’t make Pan less of a villain than, say, Cora – it makes him far more dangerous.

Rumple, Cora, Regina, Hook – as villains their motivation was still rooted in their love for others (Cora may be especially twisted but I think she was actually motivated by love – where Regina was concerned).  Were their actions correct, honest, honorable?  No.  Were they dangerous?  Extremely.  But it was also extremely easy to learn and understand what their weakness was.

What’s Pan’s weakness?  Certainly not family.  Certainly not love – he showed he truly loved no one other than himself when he ripped out Felix’s heart…that action also showed his problems with Rumple weren’t because he was ‘stuck’ with the child.  I guess you could say his selfishness – but that’s a difficult motivation to try to thwart.  While I think the others did probably still have their breaking points – granted, some did some seriously evil stuff to reach that limit – I really don’t think Pan had any limits.  He would do, kill, exploit, hurt anyone necessary to achieve his goals.  To me, that’s what makes him the most vicious – and the most evil of the villains.

[PriceofMagic]

How do you decide which villain is the most “evil” though? Is it in terms of body count? damage caused? How well you know the potential victim? Age of victim? For example Pan tried to kill Henry but Regina killed an entire village- who’s worse? Whether they show remorse for their actions?

All magic comes with a price!

Keeper of Felix

[RumplesGirl]

How do you decide which villain is the most “evil” though? Is it in terms of body count? damage caused? How well you know the potential victim? Age of victim? For example Pan tried to kill Henry but Regina killed an entire village- who’s worse? Whether they show remorse for their actions?

It’s subjective. Regina, Cora, Rumple and Zelena and Hook have all been given background–mostly fleshed out backgrounds–that explain how “evil was made.” It doesn’t make them less evil, but it does make them more sympathetic. We aren’t given any indication of how Malcolm became Malcolm; just that he seems to be a very rotten person from the beginning.

There is also the motivation of each villain.

Regina–revenge for lost love

Cora–power above everything else

Rumple–trying to find his son and not be a coward anymore

Zelena– jealousy

Hook–revenge for lost love

Pan–selfish self-preservation that he brought on himself by violating rules

You make the call on which is the greater evil. The difference between Pan and all the others I listed above is that they all have the capacity to love. Pan seems to be lacking almost wholly in that area.

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[obisgirl]

I agree with @RumplesGirl’s assessment. But I think the thing that truly makes Pan evil, is that he has no regrets over anything that he had done. He said to Rumple that he thought about abandoning him every day but then again, two or three episodes later, he calls him a squirming little larva. And basically said his life and his hopes and dreams were ruined the minute Rumple was born.

The other characters RG listed above, for the most part, have expressed some form of regret and I think that’s what sets them apart from Pan.

[Author]

Posts