Rant-y Thoughts on the Episode

[melliemd]

But remember that last season Jiminy got a full centric episode, and how much is he in the show exactly? Equal to Whale, if not less. And the producers made a huge stink about Whale and this episode. They built it up to be something that it wasn’t, and that’s my problem.

[doctor who]

In season 1, Jimminy was a main character though. Well as far as casting is concerned. He was meant to have a larger role, but it didn’t happen like that.

[melliemd]

And yet they give Whale more and more screentime through season one and finally with lots of definitive moments in season 2, tell us these tantalizing things about episode 5 that pertain to WHALE and then give us another Regina episode… If they weren’t going to make it Whale-centric, they shouldn’t have advertised it as this big Whale-a-palooza. Instead we get “Let’s use Whale as a tool to blame other people for everything wrong Regina did. Cause you know, she’s not a bad person, really. Really. Rape isn’t a big deal. Neither is murder.”

[midnight dreary]

I actually would have liked to have seen more Dr. Whale. This was supposed to be his big coming out party, but it was simply another Regina centric episode. Usually when a mystery character has their first character centric episode, they have the entire episode devoted to them. August’s first character centric episode was very much all about him. The flashbacks and the present day storyline. I wish they could have done the same with Whale.

[doctor who]

Lots of moments? He’s a scene here or there, but only appeared maybe…twice before episode 5 in season 2. I feel his character will have a larger role in the future, but as of now, he’s still a relatively minor character. The only reason we as fans built it up so much was cause it was a character we saw on a semi regular basis. Other than the main characters, I can’t think of any others that really fit into that role. He was a background character, nothing more.

To say they built it up is wrong. No, WE built it up. The fans did. They never advertised it as being Whale centric, other than saying “hey, this is the episode where you find out who Whale is!”

[schmacky]

@Gaultheria wrote:

@pinkfairy wrote:

I don’t see why they had to resolve the daniel/monster problem in this episode, or whales arm? they could have let both play out a little longer (tortured regina a little longer? ).

I think fixing Whale’s arm was a deliberate contrast to last week’s episode. Gold healed Whale almost for free. Is he feeling remorse for what he did to Hook?

But, Gold doesn’t have anything against Whale. They had a business arrangement and nothing sour between them. Gold just wanted Whale to finally admit that magic is better than science. That’s how I saw it.. nothing more deep into it. Nothing really about Gold’s character except he was having a bit of fun with Whale.

[Phee]

@MellieMD wrote:

I really really wish that his views on magic and science hadn’t changed at the end of this episode, as I feel it would have been far more interesting to let him battle with it throughout the season/series.

Well, we don’t know for sure yet that he’s completely signed himself over to believing magic is better than science. Modern medicine, (and Victor’s brand of medicine) can do great things, but if I had the choice of a major surgery and painful recovery, which might eventually see me able to use my arm again…or go see Rumple and be good as new in 5 seconds, the latter is the sensible choice. Victor couldn’t be at the top of his game, trying to find a way back to his land and his brother, if he was shut up in hospital. Also, assuming he can get back to his land, I’m also assuming he’s expecting to do more surgery on his brother, which he’ll need both arms for. So given the situation, he compromised his principles and went to see Rumple. I don’t see that as him giving up on his own beliefs completely though.

@SnowFallsღ wrote:

@Gaultheria wrote:

@pinkfairy wrote:

I don’t see why they had to resolve the daniel/monster problem in this episode, or whales arm? they could have let both play out a little longer (tortured regina a little longer? ).

I think fixing Whale’s arm was a deliberate contrast to last week’s episode. Gold healed Whale almost for free. Is he feeling remorse for what he did to Hook?

Wow, that’s a very interesting observation. It would be lovely if Mr. Gold was trying to become less ruthless with his deals in effort to change for Belle.

That would indeed be lovely, and I do hope that he continues to try to be a better man. But I think in this case, it was just that what he got from it wasn’t something that came with a physical price. Despite that, he still got something valuable…Victor had to swallow his pride, and tell Rumple he was right. Both of them have big egos, and Victor having to submit, that was a huge kick in the guts for him, and Rumple knew it, which made him happy. Rumple doesn’t like having his power challenged, and he won that round, even if he’d had to wait a long time to hear Victor say those words.

[antbee]

@MellieMD wrote:

Regarding episode content and balance:
This episode needed to be Whale/Frankenstein centric with a Regina/Jefferson/Rumple backdrop. Instead it was a Regina episode with a Jefferson/Rumple backdrop. It forced them to push the story in silly directions and made it feel very oneshot. Like that nothing in the present-Storybrooke storyline is going to affect the future. Originally I thought that Daniel being brought back would mean he would be around in Storybrooke for longer, actually BEING a monster and being a serious threat to everyone. Instead, he’s taken care of in one episode. His being brought back was just a storytelling instrument to move Regina’s redemption along. But if her redemption CANNOT be a natural consequence of natural events in character and story, it is forced and doesn’t work as effectively. Regina is usually such a well-written character, but this week had both her past self and current self being weak and boring, with nothing giving Lana Parilla a chance to make any sort of statement in the acting department. This episode should have given David Anders a chance to shine as Whale, and in the little pieces he had, he sort of did – despite the weak writing of his character as well. Even though I enjoyed the episode overall as a piece of entertainment, it didn’t seem to connect to any overarching plot anywhere but the fairytale present land.

I’m not really much of a Regina fan except I usually love to hate her or just hate her, but I agree though that it should have been opposite with this being a true Dr. Whale-centric episode not a Regina-centric episode disguised as a Dr. Whale-centric episode. Even though I felt “The Crocodile” also suffered from being hyped up too much like “The Doctor” did, at least it was more balanced even though that episode was Rumple-centric because we also got to learn quite a bit about Milah and Hook too. On the other hand, Dr. Whale was like Smee in “The Doctor” not even on the same level as a Milah or a Hook, imo.

Also, there seemed to some big weird things going on. Like I’m not sure why Regina married King Leopold. Maybe it’s not a plot hole, I would have liked answered before they jumped ahead to her being Rumple’s apprentice. Plus, if she is married to Leopold by this time, I know he’s clueless, but isn’t it a little weird that she has so much free time when Leopold married her because he thought his daughter needed a mom.

I’d like to have seen more time devoted to Jefferson’s hat too, those wonderful doors of course, but also how he was able to bring Dr. Whale to FTL and take him back. Maybe just a throwaway line or something about how someone else is waiting for Jefferson and Dr. Whale in Dr. Whale’s world that way he/she can come back, that way it won’t seem like the writers forgot the rules about Jefferson’s hat already.

The big question though is I’m not sure how Regina could preserve Daniel’s body if she didn’t know how to use magic at that time. I’ve read theories that she asked Cora too, but that doesn’t seem like something Cora would do to me.

Of course, young Regina seemed off this episode too. If it was a gradual transition from Regina in “The Stable Boy” to her becoming the Evil Queen like it seemed in “We Are Both”, then it seemed like the total opposite of that in “The Doctor”. In “We Are Both”, she’s only having thoughts about killing Snow White, which she promptly shakes off. In “The Doctor” though, it’s like the opposite because she goes from acting as innocent as a young Snow White to Evil Queen mode without anything in between.

For the next Ruby-centric episode there is a brutal murder, and people think she did it. But I was thinking that perhaps a Daniel monster would be the real culprit… So if they were setting THAT up, it would have had a point. Instead, it was forced.

Yes, if they were going to have the ghost/monster of Daniel running around, I wish it had been longer than just one episode. Although interesting thought about Regina just vanishing Daniel not destroying him, perhaps this will come back later since I don’t really buy how fast Regina’s redemption has been going.

Speaking of fairytale-present. I have a bone to pick with this show. It has so many storylines – which is fine. The problem is that with so many stories they need to USE them properly. Last week was a perfect example of awesome use of their <45 minute time. We had a great fairytale flashback and a great Storybrooke present. It was balanced, interesting, both sides were nicely compared to the other side. THIS week we had three storylines. Two of them fit the episode, and one of them moved the plot along but KILLED the pacing. I believe that each episode of this show should only have two storylines at once. a) For the sake of not confusing viewers (not to say I was confused, because I wasn't. But it CAN be confusing) b ) For the sake of keeping the pace of the episode so that it doesn't stilt or drag and c) So that you can hammer the theme of the episode home in different ways WITHOUT it being hammered into our skulls. This wasn't a problem in this episode since the fairytale present story literally had no connection to either of the other two stories, but that's an even bigger problem. It was so disconnected that it felt like it didn't belong. It belongs in next week which is all about fairytale present and the Hook/Emma/Snow/Etc storyline. And it should have been put into next week... Honestly, it sort of feels like they made NEXT week's episode too long, but didn't want to cut anything so they just threw the beginning pieces into this episode.

I think they could do three timelines, but it’s probably very difficult, instead of the way that they did it last year because it’s hard to get all three timelines to sync into what theme that they’re trying to do. So I agree that they should have just cut out Emma again since the timeline about present day Fairy Tale Land just didn’t go with the other two timelines. You’re probably right though that they felt that they couldn’t cut anything from next week’s episode, so they just clumsily inserted Emma and gang meeting Hook and going to the Beanstalk.

That would indeed be lovely, and I do hope that he continues to try to be a better man. But I think in this case, it was just that what he got from it wasn’t something that came with a physical price. Despite that, he still got something valuable…Victor had to swallow his pride, and tell Rumple he was right. Both of them have big egos, and Victor having to submit, that was a huge kick in the guts for him, and Rumple knew it, which made him happy. Rumple doesn’t like having his power challenged, and he won that round, even if he’d had to wait a long time to hear Victor say those words.

Yes, I still don’t think a kinder and gentler Rumple will actually happen until he is reunited with Bae again.

[schmacky]

I think the three storylines felt a bit disjointed in this episode because the SB and FTL flashback served character development while the PAFTL storyline served plot development.

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