Reactions to Rumple’s Actions

[Keb]

Rumple tells Regina “I did nothing,” when she works out that his life has been exchanged for Cora’s, and Regina quickly realizes that Snow’s responsible somehow. But Rumple, you DID plant the suggestion, you did exploit Snow’s pain to escape death. Perhaps killing Cora was, in the end, for the greater good, but how will the other characters react to Rumple’s still being alive?

Regina’s got no reasons to love him in the first place, and was clearly enjoying the mother-daughter bonding on some level even if she had good reason to doubt her mother’s sincerity. (I am wondering if he might soften towards Regina after doing this, though; his second chance cost her Cora right in that moment–one he had just experienced himself with Bae–when they were reunited in love. I’m still trying to figure out what to make of his expression and his words after Cora’s death: “Your mother did you no favors.” Was this supposed to comfort Regina somehow? He does know that Regina’s tried to kill Cora twice, probably more than most of the chars know right now, which may alter his perspective on it.)

Snow and David know exactly what went down (if David doesn’t know fully yet, he will soon) to get Rumple healed and Cora dead. Yay, the Dark One is back, the Evil Queen is back, and Snow has to carry that guilt with her–that she cost Regina both Daniel and her own mother–for the rest of her life. She already regrets it, but it’s too late to take it back. But Snow also knows how Rumplestiltskin manipulated her to do it, even if she rightly owns the final choice. Can they accept Rumple as Henry’s grandfather knowing that he was willing to trade someone else’s life for his own?

And then there’s Henry, Emma, and Neal. They don’t know what went down in the final moments, though they knew that Cora was going to finish Rumple off, try to become the Dark One, and kill them all. Neal was willing to embrace his father in what he thought was Rumple’s final moments; can he still continue that healing when his father is well? Can he forgive his father’s taking another life for that purpose? He wanted to leave because Rumple killed others to keep his power/life (Honora & the dagger, for example). I doubt he would have supported the use of the candle.

Emma tends to be a very practical woman, but she didn’t trust Gold before. Yeah, she recognizes him as family now, but she has also recognized Regina as Henry’s mom plenty of times and still felt it prudent to keep the kid away from Regina when she saw Regina as a psychopath or (still) a killer. (I think that’s reasonable.) So how will she deal with a, Snow’s complicity in this, and b, Rumple’s? What choices will she make with Henry? What about learning more magic?

Henry’s just lost another grandparent–he was going to lose one or the other that day, and clearly likes Rumple better than Cora (whom I don’t think he ever met), but would he be happy with how things went down? The pain it’s caused Regina, whom he still loves? What’s he going to think about Rumple now–will he see him more as the pretty cool guy who buys him hotdogs or the monster who trades lives and blames him for a pirate attack?

And then there’s Belle. What’s she going to think when she finds out he’s alive after he said he was dying? What’s she going to think about it all, if she finds out, if she becomes herself again? (Faith and hope, faith and hope.)

Such a twisted murky turn of events for all of them, really.

[MysteryKat25]

@Keb wrote:

Such a twisted murky turn of events for all of them, really.

Agreed! Especially since it all really goes back to CoraFairy and that stupid candle. I think Regina knows deep DEEP down inside what her mother was and that she’ll kick herself for not putting the heart back in sooner, giving her a real chance to have her mother and maybe none of any of this would have happened but in the meantime she’ll blame Snow because that’s what she does. They’ve both cost each other so much heartache but Snow ultimately is loved and Regina is mostly hated by those around them. That’s grating on Regina for sure.

I can’t wait to see who all team up together. So many possible directions it’s mind-boggling! Should make for lots of interesting pairs even if only for the short-run. Can’t wait!

Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.

[kfchimera]

The most interesting reaction to me was Rumpel’s. His ” I did nothing” really was chilling to me, the same way Cora’s “I’m not wicked” was. In contrast, you have Snow who feels guilty, despite having quite easy rationalizations for her actions.

I can’t help but wonder also, if Rumpel looks at Regina with resentment/bitterness that she could have been his child? You can say that Cora chose power, and she did, but she also chose the possibility of a child free of some magical contract.
Does Regina know of that history? Did she overhear any of that conversation?

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

[theevilone]

I want to apologize for this little rant before I begin but this is my reaction to Rumple’s actions. I want to make it clear, my two favorite characters are Rumplestiltskin and Regina I love them both. But I grew up on tough love and here it is.

All I can say is that after all this went down, I still do love him, but I don’t trust him and it hurts. I am definitely an Evil Regal now, I know she is wrong but my girl needs support she needs someone to root for her. All this is so going to end badly for her. I have even resigned myself to think that she might even die at some point in the show, but because she is alone I will support her. I used to love them equally but…. I can’t, I just can’t trust him anymore. He has good in him for sure but as of now he is still not worthy of neither Bae or Belle. The fact that he gave this idea to Snow and the way he manipulated the situation, but how he immediately excused himself from all blame of what happened and let Snow take the fall. He just doesn’t learn, he is still a coward. The way he looked at the situation in such a cold manner. I also believe he analysed the situation, you could just tell by looking at Regina that this would bring down her wrath on whomever was to blame and he just said “I did nothing,” I hope that the journey in getting both Bae and Belle back is long because though I feel for him, he is a bastard and this bull that he is pulling isn’t going to fly.

I know, how can I support Regina and be so angry with Rumple. Well I now Regina is a villain, I know she has done a lot of terrible terrible things, and I know she is paying for them. She also hasn’t learned anything, she keeps letting people put ideas into her head, I wish my girl would start thinking for herself and actually think on her actions. But Regina has no one, not a single person to care for her. Rumple had and has people who love him, his problem his insecurities, so he is already ahead of the game. I also don’t like that Rumple always, always tries to get away scott free, which doesn’t happen because Karma is a bitch and it always seems to find him. I love Rumbelle believe me I ship them so hard it hurts, and it really hurts me to say this but I hope it takes a long time to get her back or at least causes a little more pain cuz he ain’t learning a damn thing. I believe she is the only person he treats right and that is not okay he has to learn to stop harming people in general and take responsibility for the things he does. I know they both do, but again, he at least has family support. I saw in the previews that he is advising Regina to let go of her anger, sure now that it is convenient. Yeah I know its good advise but how interesting that he says it now that he is part of that family, always when it is so convenient for him.

That’s it, that is what I think. I felt really sad because we had that beautiful moment with Bae and the phone call with Belle and yet he is still doing this shit. It kinda cancelled them out for me. He hasn’t learned a thing!!! Well at least I hope he learned by seeing Cora dead on the floor what his future might look like if he doesn’t stop. Oh and no I do not think Regina is justified in going after Snow for this, and Snow wasn’t either, there is never any excuse to kill anyone and it doesn’t matter how many so and so killed one is one too many in my book. Snow is now no better and she knows it.

[Keb]

See, I love Rumple to death and I was seriously conflicted by what he did here, too. I’m still desperately trying to work out the tangled emotions behind that cold look as he stands over Regina and Cora’s body. I’m not entirely sure what to make of his “I did nothing” or “Your mother did you no favors.”

I do think he feels very conflicted about the situation–that was not the smug look of a man pleased that his enemy is dead or happy that Regina is suffering. A moment before he fully expected either the dagger or the poison WOULD get him; I think at the point that he called Belle, he didn’t think that Snow would actually manage to use the candle. He was downright shocked when he realized he was no longer in pain.

And Cora WOULD have killed him in that moment if Regina hadn’t shoved her heart back in. At that point, it was him or her. She would have been a worse dark one than him, and that’s saying something–the Dark One is evil, but Rumple was actually able to use his powers for good on occasion (ending the ogre wars for example) and while he’s killed plenty and for petty reasons, especially pre-Storybrooke, I don’t think it’s ever reached the levels of random cruelty we’ve seen Cora achieve without being the Dark One (like when she killed the entire island encampment or when she killed Johanna despite having gotten what she wanted). (Post-Storybrooke, I think that Cora’s is the only life he’s successfully taken, though he has made good efforts against Regina, Hook, and Moe; we could add the potential collateral damage of Emma and Snow at the well, though he was aiming at stopping Cora, and the fact he wasn’t willing to heal Greg to the list if you like.) Rumple’s feelings about killing have changed somewhat; he’s pragmatic (better them than me) and still given to violent emotional outbursts to protect (in his mind this includes vengeance) Belle/Bae, but he also told Regina that he didn’t kill Kathryn because it seemed messier here somehow. I suspect this is partly due to the Mr. Gold personality balancing out the Dark One in him; the whole We Are Both thing just adds another layer to him.

He wasn’t wrong that Cora had done Regina no favors; he may well have pushed Regina into ever-darker places to get her to cast his curse, but Cora’s the one who killed Daniel right in front of her, forced her to marry King Leopold, and put her into a place where she was willing to call Rumplestiltskin for help in the first place. Young, innocent Regina was willing to push Cora into the looking glass with little idea of what might happen to her afterward, just so long as Cora was out of her life. Regina hired Hook to kill her mother despite still loving her…and until she heard that Regina still loved her, Cora was totally planning to kill Regina then, too. (Cora’s not nice.) Regina was happy to go along with blocking the well in a way that would kill Cora to prevent Cora’s arrival in Storybrooke, too, and before Cora tempted her with exclusive Henry rights, she was perfectly content to turn Cora over to the Charmings’ Police Force for murder.

So as cruel as this outcome is for Regina, especially with her involvement and with that brief shining moment of real love that she’d missed out on her entire life…she’d already attempted to make it happen herself at least twice in the past. Complicates the heck out of things. She wasn’t as keen on Cora’s becoming the Dark One, either, though she was willing to help her mother because she was so desperate for that love.

I think Gold’s also a little torn because of his history with Cora. It’s a hollow victory for him, just as knowing that she did actually love him when she ripped out her own heart is probably not a great solace for the way that she crushed and cheated him when they were together. It can’t make up for how that hardened him, how it contributed to his later casting happiness away when Belle came into his life, or the years of hatred and battle between Cora and Rumple that evidently followed. Like Regina, he just wants to know if he’s lovable at all, something that Milah, Cora, and even Bae have all given him reasons to doubt. Can he even trust Cora, even as she’s about to kill him, though? (Yes, we know that she DID love him in her way, creepily, but how can he know whether or not to trust her? She’s not exactly got a great track record for honesty–frankness, yes, but not honesty.)

And even if he does have conflicted feelings about Cora’s death and Regina’s pain–both of which he probably feels are highly deserved on various levels, yet which compare so much with the reunion he spent a couple hundred years seeking with Bae, and here with women that at some point in his life he did care about, even love–he’s also got this second chance that he had given up hope for, to live, to be truly reconciled with his son, to perhaps find a way to bring Belle back, to maybe even live his dream of having a family. He’s escaped death and he’s still got his powers. He knows the price that had to be paid for that, and it’s a heavy one, yet I don’t think he can bring himself to feel completely sorry for it.

Gah, so many feels. I’m not sure what to think about Rumple’s role in this right now. Perhaps the coldness and his statements are an attempt to create some emotional distance because he fears the guilt he might feel over living a stolen life. I don’t think that he says “I did nothing,” to cast the blame onto Snow, though her arrival immediately after has that effect, but I do think he’s not ready to take full responsibility for what happened.

Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing

[lisas]

Sorry if this comes across as a rant but this is how I see things in regards to Rumple’s actions where Cora, Regina, Snow, etc are concerned.

There is no question that Rumple manipulated Snow into using that candle on Cora in order to save his life. I think Rumple knows that he isn’t entirely blameless in what happened to Cora and he does need to take responsibility for his actions, which I suspect will start to happen in Episode 2×17 “Welcome To Storybrooke” by helping David,Emma, Henry, Snow and Neal deal with Regina But In my opinion Cora brought all this on herself from the very beginning. Her anger at Eva and the king over her humiliation in the center of town by the royals sparked something in her that literally pushed her over the edge. She wanted to make people like the king & Eva pay and when Rumple taught her how to use magic she simply saw it as a ticket to getting the power that she desired and a way to get back at those who humiliated her. I think she did truly love Rumple but in the end I think her desire and thirst for revenge won out and fueled her bloodlust and need for power and control.

It was Cora who killed Snow’s mother for what Eva did to her. She could have stopped with that murder and chose not to. She wanted to hurt Eva’s daughter Snow as well who was an innocent child at the time and had no knowledge of what happened between Eva & Cora long before she was born. That is just twisted and psychotic. Going after Snow didn’t stop with that she manipulated a series of events including tricking young Snow into telling her about Regina and her true love Daniel the stable boy in which she killed in order to put Regina in a position to eventually get the throne and breed her anger & hatred of Snow. Which Regina did carry into her marriage with Snow’s father the king. Who Regina ultimately used genie/magic mirror Sydney to kill the king on her behalf and we all know what that eventually led to. Cora can also be blamed for using magic to control Regina and it was Regina’s way breaking free of Cora thanks to Rumple manipulating Regina into sending Cora through the looking glass portal to Wonderland in his attempt to get even with Cora for breaking his heart all those years before and he trained Regina to use dark magic so that he could make the curse and later have Regina cast the curse to get back at Snow.

I believe Rumple finally realized that Cora had to be stopped and he knew he was not only too weak & dying to do anything to stop her and he most likely still loved her deep down and couldn’t do what needed to be done so he manipulated Snow into doing what he couldn’t do in the end when everything was all said and done.

Personally I saw this as Rumple taking some responsibility for the monster that he created so long ago and was really trying to make things right not only for himself but also for his son Baelfire/Neal & his new family members Snow,David,Emma and grandson Henry.

Keeper of Neal/BaelFire's Blood Magic, Neverland Crossbow, FTL Clothes,Room at Granny’s, Charming & Emma’s Father/Daughter Hugs, Henry's Neverland Crossbow, Rumplestlitskin/Mr.Gold's FTL Walking Stick

[theevilone]

I know that he had no choice it was either him or Cora and I am so glad it wasn’t him, I guess what bothers me is that he completely let Snow take the fall by saying he did nothing. Though I also know that he had nothing to do in the way Snow did it. It is just going to make everything worse for Regina now that she is in a rampage and I know it is not going to end well. I do hope we see him try and fix things in “Welcome to Storybrook.” I mean he could have said “yeah she did it I gave her the idea but look you guys were trying to kill me.” Oh why do I like such complicated characters.

[Phee]

@Keb wrote:

See, I love Rumple to death and I was seriously conflicted by what he did here, too. I’m still desperately trying to work out the tangled emotions behind that cold look as he stands over Regina and Cora’s body. I’m not entirely sure what to make of his “I did nothing” or “Your mother did you no favors.”

I think, “I did nothing,” was one of those instances where Rumple chooses words very carefully. Notice what it was in reply to: “You stole her life. You cast some spell.” “I did nothing,” in direct response to that wasn’t technically a lie. I don’t dispute that he actually did have an awful lot to do with Cora’s death, but did he personally cast a spell that took her life? No. Dude is a master of crafting words and manipulating without outright lying.

Also truth, “Your mother did you no favours.” Rumple knows that Cora had been happily scheming away since before Regina was even conceived. I think in that moment, he was back there in the past with young Cora, remembering the dream he’d had of their potential life together, until she screwed him over and he felt it all slip away from him. In a way, he totally gets what Regina is feeling in relation to Cora. Both of them had an affection for her, despite knowing she was bad for them, and both of them suffered losing her when they were on the brink of believing they’d have her forever. Of course, Rumple’s never done Regina any favours either, so he’s not really in a position to be dissing Cora. Maybe he was trying to say, “You’ll be better off without her,” but that’s not really what Regina wants to be hearing right now.

And even if he does have conflicted feelings about Cora’s death and Regina’s pain–both of which he probably feels are highly deserved on various levels, yet which compare so much with the reunion he spent a couple hundred years seeking with Bae,

The previous scene with Bae must be weighing on his mind in that moment. He’s finally getting that chance at a reunion with his child, and he’s just played a role in robbing Regina of the same thing.

@TheEvilOne wrote:

I know, how can I support Regina and be so angry with Rumple. Well I now Regina is a villain, I know she has done a lot of terrible terrible things, and I know she is paying for them. She also hasn’t learned anything, she keeps letting people put ideas into her head, I wish my girl would start thinking for herself and actually think on her actions.

When she first aligned with Cora in SB, I was really hoping Regina was playing her. I was really hoping she’d got a clue and was being devious in order to bring her mother down. I’m not an EvilRegal, but I was giving her the benefit of the doubt and really hoping. Then I ended up disappointed. Though the storyline we’ve got is incredibly compelling and I can’t wait to see where it goes next, but I’m just saying, I’d have actually had some respect for Regina for pretty much the first time ever if she’d played Cora at her own game, but alas. Rumple may never learn his lessons either, but I can see why he doesn’t, because he wins. How many times does Regina have to lose before she realises she needs to change how she operates?

But Regina has no one, not a single person to care for her.

This is true, and really sad. They’ll have to have someone else join TeamRegina at some point, because I suspect she’s gonna go so dark now that she won’t be able to haul herself out of it. Wonder who will be the one to eventually help her?

[angiebelle]

I took the “I did nothing” line not as trying to displace the blame, but simply out of shock that Snow White actually did it. Yes, he pushed her buttons…but really- he didn’t have to push very hard. He knew she already wanted to kill her, and he was just giving her that opportunity in an effort to save his own life. When he realizes his wounds are gone, he is surprised…I think he truly believed he was done for at this point.

I wonder if knowing that Snow chose to save his life when she didn’t have to will soften Rumple.

[RumplesGirl]

@AngieBelle wrote:

I took the “I did nothing” line not as trying to displace the blame, but simply out of shock that Snow White actually did it. Yes, he pushed her buttons…but really- he didn’t have to push very hard. He knew she already wanted to kill her, and he was just giving her that opportunity in an effort to save his own life. When he realizes his wounds are gone, he is surprised…I think he truly believed he was done for at this point.

I wonder if knowing that Snow chose to save his life when she didn’t have to will soften Rumple.

This is why I’m not overly angry at Rumple or dismayed at what he did. Snow was determined to do it, she wanted to kill Cora. Rumple simply gave her the means to do so. But, it is Rumple, so it also benefited him. He did use Henry to manipulate her, but I don’t think Snow had to make any great leaps to get to the point where she was willing to kill Cora. It was already there. So, I agree with Phee. The “I did nothing” was Rumple choosing his words carefully in response to Regina. He didn’t cast any spells, he didn’t do any magic. In this case, he simply gave Snow the “gun” because she already wanted it.

I do think Rumple and the Charmings are going to have a different relationship here on out. He is Henry’s grandfather and even though they may never like each other or forget the past, he’s family.

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[Author]

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