Reactions to Rumple’s Actions

[antbee]

@Keb wrote:

See, I love Rumple to death and I was seriously conflicted by what he did here, too. I’m still desperately trying to work out the tangled emotions behind that cold look as he stands over Regina and Cora’s body. I’m not entirely sure what to make of his “I did nothing” or “Your mother did you no favors.”

I do think he feels very conflicted about the situation–that was not the smug look of a man pleased that his enemy is dead or happy that Regina is suffering. A moment before he fully expected either the dagger or the poison WOULD get him; I think at the point that he called Belle, he didn’t think that Snow would actually manage to use the candle. He was downright shocked when he realized he was no longer in pain.

{Snip}

Gah, so many feels. I’m not sure what to think about Rumple’s role in this right now. Perhaps the coldness and his statements are an attempt to create some emotional distance because he fears the guilt he might feel over living a stolen life. I don’t think that he says “I did nothing,” to cast the blame onto Snow, though her arrival immediately after has that effect, but I do think he’s not ready to take full responsibility for what happened.

I haven’t been able to respond to your other wonderful thread about the Balance of Evil now, but I just wanted to add that agree with this sentiment that I don’t think he was pleased by Cora’s death and I don’t think he was trying to put the blame on Snow either. I don’t think he’s taking responsibility yet either, but in that moment, I don’t think he was thinking “I’ll just blame Snow so that Regina goes after her and leaves me, Belle, and Bae alone”.

It’s very difficult to know where he’ll go now though. First, I just want to say that I think it’s unfair to say that he hasn’t lost like Regina has. True Belle and Bae are alive, but he’s done a lot of damage to them both. They’ve both have heavily paid the price for Rumple’s use of magic. Rumple gets this on some level, but when he finally does decide to get back to his best self and really work at it, I think it will really hit him hard how much Belle and Bae suffered because of his actions. Further, right now he’s paying the price because Belle doesn’t have her memories because Hook went after her to get back at Rumple, and even when her memories return, they still have many problems that they have to overcome before they can truly be together. Likewise, just because Rumple and Neal have reconciled, I’m certain it will be a temporary one and probably a very short once Neal finds out more of what his father did in between his father letting him go and meeting up in NYC.

I do feel bad that Regina lost her true love, but it didn’t mean that she couldn’t have followed her father’s advice and learned to love again. She also didn’t have to marry King Leopold and ruin Snow’s life once she was able to get rid of Cora. Likewise, she’s had several chances to fix her relationship with Henry. At the beginning of this season, the Charmings saved her life several times, and we see in flashbacks, that they also spared her life in FTL. Before she was framed, they let her have access to Henry even though they didn’t have to do that. Emma even invited her to Granny’s after she and Snow returned, which Rumple didn’t even get. So I don’t like this idea that Rumple always wins, and she always loses especially since she spent 28 years “winning” before Emma came to town.

Maybe it’s because he’s usually more level headed than Regina because he generally has control of his emotions and because he has a lot more experience on her to think of these plans where he gets very little blood on his hands. His plans still manage to backfire on him directly like when he thought he could leave Storybrooke after Emma had broken the curse, but found that he would forget why he left Storybrooke in the first place. Likewise, when he finally did find a way to get around that snag, his true love ends up losing her memory and forgetting who he is because he was trying to show her how he could cross the town line. Plus, he’s going to have to take more responsibility for the collateral damage that his actions did to Belle, Bae, and the people that they love and care about.

As the show progresses, I think we’ll see both Regina and Rumple progress and regress with trying to better themselves. During the first third of this season, Rumple was barely trying and basically only giving lip service to Belle, but now it looks like that might change for the rest of the season. Now Regina has regressed, but since they would eventually have to kill her off if she went after the Charmings too much, she’ll likely start to redeem herself again probably around the same time that Rumple falters again. They may both redeem themselves, or maybe neither gets redeemed, or only only one of them will.

[Phee]

@AntBee wrote:

Maybe it’s because he’s usually more level headed than Regina because he generally has control of his emotions and because he has a lot more experience on her to think of these plans where he gets very little blood on his hands.

This was more what I was meaning when I said he always wins…that he’s so in control. Obviously he lost when lost Bae, and he’s paying all sorts of prices in the present day with Belle, but in all his manipulations, all those little deals he made over the centuries, he was the one in control of the game, so if he made a deal to get something, he got it, so why would he change the way he operates. We’ve yet to see Regina really get the best of someone like that. Yeah, she got her curse, but even that was really just a win for Rumple, and it all fell apart because she didn’t really understand the rules of the game. Rumple is always conscious of the state of play, even if he’s getting himself in deeper, he’s still aware and in control. Regina just flies off the handle and reacts emotionally, and I was hoping that by now, she’d have realised that that’s never really gotten her what she wanted.

[RumplesGirl]

Regina is a bit of a hot head. She rushes into things without seeing the whole board. I’m not saying that’s her fault because I don’t think she can even see the board sometimes. But sees the entire field of play. He gives Regina a curse and she thinks its the answers to all her problems without stopping to think about 1) why he would give this to her and 2) what are the consequences to it.
It’s like they said in the official podcast for Miller’s Daughter. Regina storms into the Charmings wedding to announce that she’s going to destroy their happy ending, but she doesn’t even have the plan or the curse as of yet. Just like Cora when she told the King she could spin straw into gold and then tries to rush out of the room so she won’t have to prove it. Stun them and leave them and don’t worry about the consequences of what you’ve said.
Rumple is so calculating that he would never announce his plans until he was sure of everything. The one time I think this doesn’t apply is when he lost Bae and he told BF that he would do nothing else in his life but find a way to locate Bae.
If Regina wants true revenge on Snow she needs to play the long game, not go for the easy solution. She can’t send her loyal huntsman to kill Snow, for example. Rumple is an expert at the Long Con.

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[ser_dragon]

The only one responsible for what Snow have done to Cora is none other than Cora. Cora who wanted to become the new Dark One. Cora who sent Hook in Manhattan. Cora who tried to kill all the Charmings. Cora who was about to kill Rumpel.

What do you think seriously? If you where Rumpel wouldn’t you want to do anything to avoid dying? Wouldn’t you trade your life for the one of an evil witch who want nothing but kill everyone to gain power including you? What would you do? Ask yourself this and answer in all conscience, with sincerity, what would you do?

And Snow isn’t responsible for Daniel death, I’m tired of people holding this against her. She was a little girl. She was naive, she was a child who choose to trust an adult. Cora and Cora only is responsible for Daniel death. End of story.

[Slurpeez]

There’s no doubt that Mr. Gold/Rumple obsesses over the finer points of a contract, and I believe he is usually a master manipulator. Yet, I’m not so sure Rumple is always so leveled headed, since there was that time he murdered Milha and cut off Hook’s hand. Also, there was that time that Rumple vigorously shook Belle, his one true love, for trying to kiss him and then yelled at the mirror so Regina would hear him. And there was that time Regina got the better of Rumple by locking away the woman he rejected for 28 years and he thought she was dead. And there was that time again when Mr. Gold unleashed the wraith on Regina (though justifiably). There was also the time he smashed the items in his pawn shop when he found out he couldn’t cross the town line. Mr. Gold has nearly beaten to death people with his cane of pain and had to be stopped by Emma and Belle from offing Moe French and Killian Jones. Finally, Mr. Gold really lost his cool with Emma when he threatened to use force to find out more about his son. Oh, and there’s still the question of Henry’s precarious fate at the moment. So, as much as I love Rumple, that man still makes a lot of wrong decisions. It’s going to be a long road.

"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy

[RumplesGirl]

He’s not level headed when his emotions get the best of him, I agree. Right before he killed Milah she had just told him that she never loved him. He shook Belle because he suddenly realized he had done the one thing he swore never to do again (he tells Blue that he will do nothing else, love no one else in “The Return”). He released the Wraith against Regina because his love for Belle clouded his rational thinking. When Rumple loses control it is normally because he has been surprised by some unexpected emotion. Something he didn’t see coming.
Rumple has made a lot of wrong decisions, I don’t deny that. I just don’t know if giving Snow that candle was one of them. It was absolutely predicated on self motives. He didn’t want to die and here was someone who was already determined to kill Cora, so he might as well help her out. He just manipulated the situation enough so that she wouldn’t kill him too. It’s going to be a LOOOOOOONG road. Like full series long road. I doubt Rumple will ever be like Snow or even just “good” (whatever that word even means everyone could define it differently Look at what Regina said to Snow in The Queen is Dead: it was you who added Evil to my Name. Who’s to say Rumple couldn’t already be considered “good” Everything he’s done he did for his son. What wouldn’t a parent do when if their child was lost? Just throwing that out there). I think he’ll always straddle that line, and frankly, that’s how I want him. That’s why he’s my favorite. He’s so complex and well drawn that if he were to go completely good, it wouldn’t be believable. And if he went completely bad, it would be cliche and not very OUaT of the writers.

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[PriceofMagic]

I think Rumple needs Belle to bring out the good in him. Without her, it would be all to easy to revert to his previous manipulative ways. Snow was well aware that Rumple was trying to manipulate her. The fact that he directed her to the cupboard where the candle just happened to be wasn’t subtle, and Rumple is a master of subtlety. Cora was right to be worried that Rumple had time to think, he pretended to be getting better so that he could get to the shop, Rumple had probably planned on using the candle to save his life.

Snow referred to Rumple as “Evil”. He did play the “I’m Henry’s grandfather” card but it wasn’t like Snow didn’t know what he was trying to get her to do. She wanted to kill Cora but didn’t like the consequences once she had set the wheels in motion.

Whilst it was morally wrong for Rumple to manipulate Snow like he did, you can’t help but be a little impressed that he had the balls to actually do that whilst he was dying and for it to actually work. Also you can’t fully blame him for Cora’s death when Snow actually used the candle, she knew what she was doing. Rumple directed Snow to the candle, Snow did the rest. She took the candle from the cupboard, sneaked away to Regina’s mausoleum, rooted through Cora’s stuff until she found the heart, lit the candle and cursed the heart, then gave the heart to Regina. At any time Snow could have stopped. She could have done what she said she could’ve done: let Rumple die and control Cora’s heart “Takes care of two evils at once” but Snow still carried through.

As for people’s reactions to what Rumple did:

Snow- Would blame herself. She knew she could have stopped but didn’t. She feels guilty over what she did which means she’s not evil but she would doubt whether she is a good person.

Charming- Would probably punch Rumple in the face. Charming would completely blame Rumple for what Snow did.

Emma- Probably wouldn’t want Henry anywhere near Rumple which would suit Rumple just fine.

Bae- Would be disappointed with his dad and would think that Rumple hasn’t changed at all. This would be a setback to their reunion.

Belle- Once Belle gets her memories back, I think she would listen to Rumple’s side of the story before judging him. She’d probably want to know if there was another way that could’ve saved Rumple without killing Cora. When she finds out there wasn’t, I think she’d side with Rumple.

All magic comes with a price!

Keeper of Felix

[angiebelle]

Are we so sure all of the “good” characters would be so against what Snow and Rumple did? Cora wanted to kill everyone..she was a serious danger to the town. She was a far worst threat than allowing Rumple to live at this point ever would be. I don’t think Bae or Emma could blame Rumple for trying to save his own life. Charming knows Snow had that dark side in her- I don’t think even he would put all the responsibility on Rumple. Will Snow White even bring up that Rumple nudged her towards the candle? She is turning all the blame inward.

[RumplesGirl]

@AngieBelle wrote:

Are we so sure all of the “good” characters would be so against what Snow and Rumple did? Cora wanted to kill everyone..she was a serious danger to the town. She was a far worst threat than allowing Rumple to live at this point ever would be. I don’t think Bae or Emma could blame Rumple for trying to save his own life. Charming knows Snow had that dark side in her- I don’t think even he would put all the responsibility on Rumple. Will Snow White even bring up that Rumple nudged her towards the candle? She is turning all the blame inward.

I think the only people who is going to blame Snow White for what happened to Cora is Regina and Snow White. Snow is going to think the worse of herself. And even if Emma and the gang learn what Snow did, which I think they will because Snow and Charming don’t keep things from others, they won’t care. They’ll see that Cora had to die and if hadn’t been Snow/Regina then it would have been someone else. I can see Emma blaming Rumple for manipulating Snow, but I think their major concern is going to be protecting Snow from Regina.

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[Keb]

I’m amused by the idea of David punching Gold in the face and kinda want to see it now.

Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing

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