- This topic has 405 replies, 35 voices, and was last updated 6 years, 1 month ago by
.
-
Posts
-
(Applaudes @PriceofMagic & @ObisGirl)
I completely understand where both of you are coming from….and more than likely we may see the Robin and Marian thing in a Robin Hood Flashback Episode….but as for OutlawQueen getting to know one another on an emotional level, I think they already covered that back in 3B, but it was just behind the scenes. It was left completely up to the viewer how they probably got to know one another, but now that I think about it…we did have that during their Smores Lunch Date.
Though…I must add that Fate and Destiny play a large role in the show, and it had always been Robin and Regina’s fate to end up together. It was never truly her fate to be dark or corrupted, I kinda think that was always supposed to have been Zelena, hence Rumple’s “First Born” Child Prophecy…Regina’s fate was aligned to have a happy ending with Robin Hood.
And I think because of the Soul Mate Bond thing…Robin and Regina shared an instant connection which is why they progressed faster than any other ship, they’re not just True Loves, they’re Soul Mates….souls bound by Fate and Destiny to end up together. Which is why they had such instant trust: Regina trusting Robin with her heart/Robin trusting Regina with Roland….and really Sympathy or Compassion: Unlike everyone else, Robin saw past the whole Evil Queen moniker, and saw the redeemed woman underneath. He’s never once thrown her past back in her face, and even though he knows she’s responsible for Marian’s death, he understands that she was a different woman back then, and that she wasn’t like that anymore.
Even in the Enchanted Forest, they really had instant chemistry that wasn’t oblivious….they were really acting like two children on the playground who mess with each other because they probably like each other. Like Lana & Sean said…”It was a lot of sexual tension that they really didn’t know how to be adult about.” All that probably came from once again, the Soul Mate Bond.
[adrotate group="5"]"If you go as far as you can see...you will then see enough to go even further." - Finn Balor
Robin saw past the whole Evil Queen moniker, and saw the redeemed woman underneath. He’s never once thrown her past back in her face, and even though he knows she’s responsible for Marian’s death, he understands that she was a different woman back then, and that she wasn’t like that anymore.
I understand that but…
In a normal, real-life situation, Robin I think would react very differently to learning that Regina killed his wife. I don’t think he would take her back with open arms. Marian’s not only his wife but the mother of his child. This is also the same woman he would have walked through fire for.
Robin/Regina would not possible in a real life scenario like that but for the sake of the show, the story and the relationship because Robin is supposed to be with Regina, Regina murdering Marian gets swept under the rug. And that’s more than a little disturbing.
I have no qualms with Marian. I think it’s sad she’s become a plot device but it’s also not the first time either that a first love (on this show) has become a plot device in order to prop up another character and make them look better too. It’s also not fair to the character of Marian as well. (Nealfire had more character development than Marian).
Robin saw past the whole Evil Queen moniker, and saw the redeemed woman underneath. He’s never once thrown her past back in her face, and even though he knows she’s responsible for Marian’s death, he understands that she was a different woman back then, and that she wasn’t like that anymore.
I understand that but… In a normal, real-life situation, Robin I think would react very differently to learning that Regina killed his wife. I don’t think he would take her back with open arms. Marian’s not only his wife but the mother of his child. This is also the same woman he would have walked through fire for.
In a normal, real life situation…could any of Once’s ships happen? Belle was once Rumple’s slave…Hook is hundreds of years older than Emma…Neal left Emma to go to jail….Snow and Charming are probably one of the only ships that could ever happen in real life.
And we must realize that…the love he has for Regina and Marian are probably on two different scales. Regina is his soul mate, again bound by fate, Marian was probably his first love. Could Robin and Regina love each other more than they ever did Daniel and Marian…I don’t know, perhaps.
Robin/Regina would not possible in a real life scenario like that but for the sake of the show, the story and the relationship because Robin is supposed to be with Regina, Regina murdering Marian gets swept under the rug. And that’s more than a little disturbing.Again…none of the ships on Once could work out in real life, and a lot of things are swept under the rug in every Once Relationships. Some things aren’t even found out (cough) Rumple killing Zelena (cough), we know what happened, and we can either stay focused on something that has now become insignificant, or we can just move on with the show. But I do understand how you feel because the fact that Rumple has got away scot-free with killing Regina’s sister irks me still.And I think it’s safe to say that Regina and Marian are even now, so the whole “You murdered me” thing should be case closed because Regina has saved Marian’s life three times now, all at the expense of her own happiness. So they’re even now.I have no qualms with Marian. I think it’s sad she’s become a plot device but it’s also not the first time either that a first love (on this show) has become a plot device in order to prop up another character and make them look better too. It’s also not fair to the character of Marian as well. (Nealfire had more character development than Marian).
That’s all an issue with the writing….though Marian has no major connection with anyone but Robin Hood, so of course she’s gonna be a background character with minor importance. We can’t cover the background characters because there’s not enough time in the show, so she’s not really a plot device used to prop up Regina, who didn’t need anyone to make her look good because she had already done all of her good deeds before Robin or Marian.
"If you go as far as you can see...you will then see enough to go even further." - Finn Balor
I know you don’t like to address the evil things Regina has done because she’s your favorite @wickedregal but she did do a lot of evil things back in the day.
(Remember we had that discussion not to ignore the reason why Regina needs a redemption arc? It’s because she was a villain at the start of the show).
In the original timeline, she killed Marian. She killed a bunch of other people too and Rumple did not always force her hand.
I would just like it for the show to just once actually address some of the things Regina has done. She admitted to Robin that she made mistakes but when it comes to admitting them to other people, she just won’t do that (Snow and Henry bring the exception).
Even when Tink tried to encourage her not to mess up again in 3A, Regina threw it back on her face.
Regina killing Marian originally is the giant the room Adam and Eddy don’t want to talk about and I find that really disappointing. (For the sake of the story and Regina’s progress, it has to be ignored though). And that’s what is mostly what I find frustrating about her character arc sometimes.
I’m not talking about other couples. Because that is not what I addressed in my original post.
I completely understand where both of you are coming from….and more than likely we may see the Robin and Marian thing in a Robin Hood Flashback Episode….but as for OutlawQueen getting to know one another on an emotional level, I think they already covered that back in 3B, but it was just behind the scenes. It was left completely up to the viewer how they probably got to know one another, but now that I think about it…we did have that during their Smores Lunch Date.
I think that for someone like Regina, that developing relationship needed to be shown rather than happening “behind the scenes”. “Behind the scenes” is a lazy way to write a romantic relationship unless the writers are intending for the relationship to be a “reveal” ie a villain goes home after a hard days work of villainy to loved ones showing a softer side or it is revealed that one of the heroes is having a romance with a villain and is a mole etc. Every other ship on the show has had some sort of build up. OQ kind of went from 0-60 in seconds. In Skin Deep, the episode which is responsible for RumBelle, there are several time jumps so although RumBelle technically progress from first meeting to TLK within that single episode, you are still shown the touchstones within that relationship: the first meeting, the developing friendship, the emotional connection, the TLK. Later episodes then fill in the blanks. For OQ, Robin just jumped into “you’re hot” territory on first meeting Regina without any reason for doing so. He didn’t even get a “you’re not as bad as I thought you were” moment which should’ve been something that happened especially considering Regina’s reputation as the “evil queen”. Even in Storybrooke when everyone was memory less, Robin was still at it, despite it being the first time he met Regina as far as they knew. Had they developed that relationship in the EF to a meaningful level then I could accept Robin and Regina being “drawn” to aka like Snowing were drawn to each other in season 1. However, as far as I could tell the OQ relationship didn’t develop much beyond Robin thinking Regina was hot and Regina telling him to go away. So Regina suddenly reciprocating towards Robin in Storybrooke seemed a little out of left field because there was no set up for it.
Though…I must add that Fate and Destiny play a large role in the show, and it had always been Robin and Regina’s fate to end up together. It was never truly her fate to be dark or corrupted, I kinda think that was always supposed to have been Zelena, hence Rumple’s “First Born” Child Prophecy…Regina’s fate was aligned to have a happy ending with Robin Hood.
I dislike the whole fate/destiny/soulmate thing that has been tied to OQ. Not only does it suggest that people aren’t in control of their own lives, choices and decisions, but it also makes a couple forced rather than allowing them to come together organically. SwanFire was strongly hinted to have been fate/destiny and that didn’t end well. I think the whole “pixie dust said so” is bad writing because it basically says to the audience that they have to support this ship because “it’s fate” rather than supporting it because the characters have great chemistry etc.
And I think because of the Soul Mate Bond thing…Robin and Regina shared an instant connection which is why they progressed faster than any other ship, they’re not just True Loves, they’re Soul Mates….souls bound by Fate and Destiny to end up together. Which is why they had such instant trust: Regina trusting Robin with her heart/Robin trusting Regina with Roland….and really Sympathy or Compassion: Unlike everyone else, Robin saw past the whole Evil Queen moniker, and saw the redeemed woman underneath. He’s never once thrown her past back in her face, and even though he knows she’s responsible for Marian’s death, he understands that she was a different woman back then, and that she wasn’t like that anymore.
Again this is something we should’ve seen. There are a lot of reactions we should’ve seen but didn’t including other story points. I think OQ should’ve had build up like Snowing and RumBelle had build up and not been fast tracked because of the “soul mate” thing. We never got to see Robin’s conflict between his new love for Regina and the revelation that she originally killed Marian, and because of that Robin kind of looks like a douchebag for being completely unbothered by it.
What I would’ve liked to see:
Marian: Regina killed me!
Robin: Oh no! What do I do? I love Regina but I loved Marian and Regina is the reason why I lost Marian. I’m so conflicted! What should I do?What we got:
Marian: Regina killed me!
Robin: Okay then. I’m off to bang Regina in her crypt.Even in the Enchanted Forest, they really had instant chemistry that wasn’t oblivious….they were really acting like two children on the playground who mess with each other because they probably like each other. Like Lana & Sean said…”It was a lot of sexual tension that they really didn’t know how to be adult about.” All that probably came from once again, the Soul Mate Bond.
Again, would’ve liked to see them progress into something meaningful in the EF hence being drawn to each other in Storybrooke. The soulmate thing is just an excuse not to spend time developing the relationship properly and in many ways weakens and belittles the ship itself and other ships on the show. The acting like children was okay for the first couple of weeks/months but by the end of the missing year they should’ve progressed, not been still at square one.
I understand that but…
In a normal, real-life situation, Robin I think would react very differently to learning that Regina killed his wife. I don’t think he would take her back with open arms. Marian’s not only his wife but the mother of his child. This is also the same woman he would have walked through fire for.
An actual reaction from Robin would’ve been nice.
Robin/Regina would not possible in a real life scenario like that but for the sake of the show, the story and the relationship because Robin is supposed to be with Regina, Regina murdering Marian gets swept under the rug. And that’s more than a little disturbing.
I agree. I think 4A butchered Robin’s character because of how uncaring he seemed towards Marian and for the sake of OQ. Instead of letting OQ stand on it’s own merits, they are forcing the characters to act a certain way to make OQ happen and this is dragging down both characters. Robin’s suffered the worst because he’s not a main character, but even Regina has been dragged down by OQ particularly in 3B especially in Kansas.
I have no qualms with Marian. I think it’s sad she’s become a plot device but it’s also not the first time either that a first love (on this show) has become a plot device in order to prop up another character and make them look better too. It’s also not fair to the character of Marian as well. (Nealfire had more character development than Marian).
More definitely could’ve been done with Marian but as you say, she’s just a plot device. Henry has become a plot device too.
In a normal, real life situation…could any of Once’s ships happen? Belle was once Rumple’s slave…Hook is hundreds of years older than Emma…Neal left Emma to go to jail….Snow and Charming are probably one of the only ships that could ever happen in real life.
Yes and No. There are elements of all the Once ships that do happen in reality and there are elements that don’t happen in reality.
And we must realize that…the love he has for Regina and Marian are probably on two different scales. Regina is his soul mate, again bound by fate, Marian was probably his first love. Could Robin and Regina love each other more than they ever did Daniel and Marian…I don’t know, perhaps.
I have to strongly disagree with this for two reasons. Firstly, Marian and Daniel were killed. Had they lived, chances are that Regina and Robin would be very happy living with their other halves right now and would probably have never met. Regina/Daniel and Robin/Marian didn’t split up because they didn’t love each other any more, they were separated by death.
Secondly, by saying OQ love each other “more” or “better” compared to previous relationships, it completely undermines all the characters especially Regina. Why did Regina become so determined at getting revenge on Snow for Daniel if he wasn’t all that great compared to Robin? By that logic, Regina should’ve been thanking Snow and worshipping at her feet because Snow cleared the way for Regina to meet her “soulmate”. By that logic Regina was very ungrateful towards Snow. It reduces Daniel and Marian to just placeholders and it makes Robin look even worse that he married a woman and got her pregnant just to keep his bed warm until he met his “soulmate”.
Regina/Daniel and Robin/Marian does not diminish OQ, but to try and make OQ diminish Regina/Daniel and Robin/Marian only causes Regina and Robin to come out unfavourably.
Again…none of the ships on Once could work out in real life, and a lot of things are swept under the rug in every Once Relationships. Some things aren’t even found out (cough) Rumple killing Zelena (cough), we know what happened, and we can either stay focused on something that has now become insignificant, or we can just move on with the show. But I do understand how you feel because the fact that Rumple has got away scot-free with killing Regina’s sister irks me still.
I’m more irked that Rumple is the ONLY one that gets punished for his wrong doing whilst Regina and Hook get away with it scot-free. If it was a more even playing field the it wouldn’t seem so bad but Hook gets away with everything. I’m not too bothered by Zelena’s death in the sense that she treated Rumple like absolute crap so she kind of got what she deserved. In fact I was more bothered by her defeat by Regina and how patronising Regina was in that episode. However, Zelena’s an interesting character for me in the sense that there were times where I absolutely hated her then other times I sympathised with her. I think more could’ve been done with Zelena and she could’ve been fleshed out more.
And I think it’s safe to say that Regina and Marian are even now, so the whole “You murdered me” thing should be case closed because Regina has saved Marian’s life three times now, all at the expense of her own happiness. So they’re even now.
I don’t think you can point score over something like this because to say that Regina has done Y for Marian therefore X is wiped out doesn’t fully represent the bigger picture. Regina saving Marian only proves that Regina is a better person now than she was and that enables Marian to perhaps start on the road towards forgiveness. You can’t make Marian forgive and forget what Regina did to her just because Regina saved her. Marian has missed out on the first few years of Roland’s life because of Regina. Regina can’t turn around on Roland’s 18th birthday and say to Marian “Since I’ve let you be in Roland’s life for the past 14 years, the first 4 years you missed because of me are now irrelevant”. Regina’s actions should not be whitewashed. I can still root for Regina and acknowledge she’s done bad things. I would’ve much preferred for Robin to have acknowledged and dealt with the conflicting emotions over the Marian murder thing rather than just glossing over it and pretending it never happened.
That’s all an issue with the writing….though Marian has no major connection with anyone but Robin Hood, so of course she’s gonna be a background character with minor importance. We can’t cover the background characters because there’s not enough time in the show, so she’s not really a plot device used to prop up Regina, who didn’t need anyone to make her look good because she had already done all of her good deeds before Robin or Marian.
I agree. Because of lack of time, characters like Granny, the dwarves, Whale, Archie, Red etc are now glorified extras. Since the start of season 3, we’ve been getting under developed characters because there’s not enough time to flesh them out more. Marian has fallen victim to that.
I agree with what you say about Regina doing good before Robin and Marian. Regina was awesome in Neverland. 3B and 4A I didn’t like Regina so much because I felt they made her very dependent on Robin in order for her to be good. Kansa is the worst Regina episode because, rather than being the strong willed independent woman we know she is, she needed Robin and Henry to give her a pep talk before she could suddenly do light magic which she has never displayed any inclination towards previously. Her “heroes don’t kill” line was very OOC and patronising for her. It would’ve suited Snow or Emma but not Regina. “You’re better than that” or “don’t lower yourself to her level” would’ve felt more in line with Regina’s character. To say “heroes don’t kill” then a couple of scenes later threaten to kill Zelena if she steps out of line was very hypocritical.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixI agree with most of what you said @priceofmagic!
I think the bottom line here @wickedregal, you can root for a character but pointing out their flaws and the evil things that they’ve done is not a bad thing. I love my babies but I am in no way blind to the horrible or bad things that they’ve done. If I’m not happy about something they’ve done, I’m not going to hold back on it.
As a writer myself, I strongly believe in character development. I get more upset watching a really bad movie where characters don’t evolve at all by the last act. Regina has evolved, true but the things that she’s done in the past shouldn’t be overlooked as well.
Ok…too much to quote, so i’ll just stick with the highlights! 🙂
1. Destiny
To dislike the destiny or fate that pulled Robin and Regina together….is it safe to say that we can also dislike Emma’s destiny and fate to be the Savior because if we look at it through that point of view, Emma’s not in control of her own life either. If “Pixie Dust Says So” is bad writing then so is Rumple’s “Savior” prophecy. So should we hate the whole Savior Moniker Emma has as well? We can’t favor one over the other.
2. Relationship Buildup
We had a lot of moments between Robin Hood and Regina….
– The first meeting, equal attraction.
Snow: He’s kinda cute huh?
Regina: He smells like forest.
-The moment Regina saved Roland, and then gave him a toy monkey. That was Robin Hood’s “You’re not as bad as they say” moment.
– Robin Hood tagging along with Regina to infiltrate her castle, Regina admiring his honor, and Robin admiring her soft heart.
Regina: Who knew a thief had honor?
Robin: Who knew an Evil Queen had a soft spot for children?
– The small talk in her family crypt where Regina tells Robin about how she lost Henry, that was a milestone itself to even open up to Robin Hood, something she has a lot of trouble doing with other people. Then Robin Hood tried to talk Regina out of offing herself….even Prince Charming noted that the Queen must like him because she had given him a gift of golden arrows….it’s more than likely hard to get a present out of Regina unless you’re Henry.
I can go on and on and list every moment they shared…but the ones I just showed were clear enough proof of the build up of OutlawQueen. Yes, they were at each other’s throats, but that was just a burning passion they had no idea how to be adult about…
3. Robin’s Reaction To Regina Killing Marian
Ok…once again….even though everyone else probably would have saw the absolute worst in Regina, Robin Hood could still see the best in her despite everything. He knew that Regina was insane, and out of her mind 30 years ago, and that she wasn’t that woman anymore. What did you all expect, for a good hearted man to throw her past up in her face, lash out at her, accuse her of being evil and corrupt like everyone else did in Storybrooke?
What good would come of that? Regina was already tipping on her toes on the border of good and evil in 4A, and it was her love for Robin, Henry, and her family, all who had her back, that kept her grounded on the side of good. Had Robin Hood lashed out at Regina in 4×01 like some of you wanted…then the Evil Queen would have surely been awakened, and it would not have ended well for anyone. But because Robin Hood is an understanding, good hearted man, he didn’t throw her dark past up in her face like the Charmings, Rumpelstilskin, or even her own mother did.
4. OutlawQueen was not an affair…
Ok….Lana Parrilla gave the best explanation that Evil Regals are celebrating her for. OutlawQueen was not an affair because Marian was dead. When she came back, it was pretty much like in the Castaway Movie (Lana is brilliant for this comparison), Robin Hood had moved on with Regina, it’s not his fault Marian came back. Few people expected him to just tell Regina “Well it was fun while it lasted, but I’m going back to my dead wife!”
He mourned Marian, and he moved on….he only went back to her because of his vows that really were terminated thirty years ago, but I’m pretty sure the separation from his soul mate took a strain on his sub-conscious and emotions. He did what everyone wanted him to do…he tried to go back to Marian, he tried to keep his vow, but Regina had his heart. It was something that couldn’t be helped…he couldn’t just sit there and rub Marian’s frozen hands and feet till she defrosted. And that TLK Failing was clear example that it was over between him and Marian who can now just be good friends.
As for him sleeping with Regina, it was something probably long overdue, and to be honest I wouldn’t be surprised if they fooled around back in the EF during that missing year. True…a crypt isn’t probably the most comfortable place to get it on in, but at least we now know she had a bed down there. Marian was in a frozen coma with little hope of ever coming out of it, and OutlawQueen is true love/soul mates, I don’t know…what else could they have done with all of that sexual tension in that small, fire lit room…play a game of Monopoly?
5. True Love vs Soul Mates
Robin and Regina were fated to happen…that has already been stated as canon.
Let’s take a look at the facts…had Regina and Daniel really run off together, we all know it wouldn’t have been long till Cora found them, and the same results would have occurred. The only reason Snow White is responsible is because she couldn’t keep a secret, something that can no longer be denied with the excuse she was a child because even as an adult, she told Emma about Neal being alive the first chance she got. Secrets are not Snow’s strong suit.
Robin and Marian….nine times out of ten, Robin only met Marian because Regina was too scared to meet him. And even still Marian ended up dead, and death has continually tried to kill Marian who will probably be dead by the end of 4B due to some freak accident. Death or Fate is trying his/her best to take Marian out.
Though Daniel and Marian may have once been Robin and Regina’s true loves…they were not their soul mates., and please don’t turn the tables to make Robin and Regina’s characters look bad just because they finally found their soul mate. Regina tried to kill Snow because of her hand in the death of her true love, someone she thought would ever truly love her. Because Regina didn’t meet Robin, he met his true love Marian elsewhere. Though it doesn’t really matter….the Soul Mates have each other now. OutlawQueen does not diminish Marian or Daniel, it just probably stands on higher ground. Could the love be greater…who knows?
6. The Villains Price
Let me start off by saying…yes, Hook gets away scot-free with everything.
But I strongly disagree about Regina who has paid her dues for her past sins. From losing her son on multiple occasions, to being wrongly accused, to losing her mother, her sister, true love twice, and even her soul mate. I don’t feel like listing the rest of them, but we all know she has paid her dues.
Rumple…this is the second time I’ve ever seen him pay for his sins, so he’s not always punished.
7. Forgive So You Can Live In Peace, Forget So You Can Move On
Yeah…Regina and Marian are even. She killed her once, and saved her thrice….they’re WAY EVEN!
Marian only missed four years of little Roland’s life, she needs to be grateful she gets to live to see the rest of it, and yes thanks to Regina. Even Marian said that they were even…if she can forgive and forget, I think everyone else should as well!
I will admit it, Regina has done terrible things in the past, some even unspeakable, but I choose to also remember that she was an entirely different woman 30 Years Ago. And that Regina has done a lot to save/help the people she once cursed, and inflicted suffer on. I choose to think in the course of an eye for an eye…Regina cursed everyone, she saved everyone, and she’s even put her life on the line many times for her people…does it right the wrong she did in the past, NO it does not, but she cant change that. All she can do is move forward, and help the descendants of the people she’s killed, and the people she’s cursed….that is all she can do to make up for what she did in the past.
"If you go as far as you can see...you will then see enough to go even further." - Finn Balor
4. OutlawQueen was not an affair… Ok….Lana Parrilla gave the best explanation that Evil Regals are celebrating her for. OutlawQueen was not an affair because Marian was dead.
When Marian was dead -yes – it was not an affair but what Regina and Robin did in the crypt — that was an affair. Robin and Marian are still technically married. He made vows to her. Cheating on your spouse is the definition of an affair, especially when that person is alive. You can’t glorify an affair. I’m sorry but no, Robin went back on his word and cheated on his wife.
4. OutlawQueen was not an affair… Ok….Lana Parrilla gave the best explanation that Evil Regals are celebrating her for. OutlawQueen was not an affair because Marian was dead.
When Marian was dead -yes – it was not an affair but what Regina and Robin did in the crypt — that was an affair. Robin and Marian are still technically married. He made vows to her. Cheating on your spouse is the definition of an affair, especially when that person is alive. You can’t glorify an affair. I’m sorry but no, Robin went back on his word and cheated on his wife.
And like Lana said…just like in the movie Castaway…her husband was dead till he came back, but she had moved on with a new family and a new life. After Robin mourned his wife, he was allowed to move on, just because she’s back does not mean you stop your new life to go back to the new one. It’s a messy situation, but it’s not a hard decision.
Not glorifying affairs, which I think is unfair to name OutlawQueen but everyone else had no problem with Snowing’s in Season 1. And folks use the excuse they were technically married, ummmm, no, not in this world were Snow and Charming married in Season 1. And whether David and Kathryn were legally married or not, he still cheated on her with Snow. Can’t excuse one and not the other.
And the same could be said about Robin and Marian, they may have been married in the EF, but in this world, that marriage is not recognized by the law…therefore Robin was technically not married to Marian in this land. I understand that was his wife back in the EF, but someone should explain to him the new rules in this world. She’s his wife through words, but not by law. Therefore OutlawQueen maybe guilty of sleeping behind Marian’s frozen back, it was certainly not an affair.
"If you go as far as you can see...you will then see enough to go even further." - Finn Balor
Ok…too much to quote, so i’ll just stick with the highlights!
1. Destiny
To dislike the destiny or fate that pulled Robin and Regina together….is it safe to say that we can also dislike Emma’s destiny and fate to be the Savior because if we look at it through that point of view, Emma’s not in control of her own life either. If “Pixie Dust Says So” is bad writing then so is Rumple’s “Savior” prophecy. So should we hate the whole Savior Moniker Emma has as well? We can’t favor one over the other.
Emma as the saviour only came about because Rumple used Snowing’s true love in the curse as a safety valve. Emma is not in control of her life in the sense that everything was set up to get her to Storybrooke to break the curse. There is a reason WHY Emma is the saviour. Emma’s “destiny” is not saying “You have to be with this person and there is nothing you can do about it”. Emma’s “fate” is not saying “all your romantic pursuits will fail and crash and burn until you end up with this specific person”.
Being prophesised to play a role is not the same as being told that you have to be with one specific person and you have no say in the matter otherwise you will be miserable for the rest of your life. In fact Emma resents her “destiny” as saviour.
2. Relationship Buildup
We had a lot of moments between Robin Hood and Regina….
– The first meeting, equal attraction.
Snow: He’s kinda cute huh?
Regina: He smells like forest.
-The moment Regina saved Roland, and then gave him a toy monkey. That was Robin Hood’s “You’re not as bad as they say” moment.
– Robin Hood tagging along with Regina to infiltrate her castle, Regina admiring his honor, and Robin admiring her soft heart.
Regina: Who knew a thief had honor?
Robin: Who knew an Evil Queen had a soft spot for children?
– The small talk in her family crypt where Regina tells Robin about how she lost Henry, that was a milestone itself to even open up to Robin Hood, something she has a lot of trouble doing with other people. Then Robin Hood tried to talk Regina out of offing herself….even Prince Charming noted that the Queen must like him because she had given him a gift of golden arrows….it’s more than likely hard to get a present out of Regina unless you’re Henry.
I can go on and on and list every moment they shared…but the ones I just showed were clear enough proof of the build up of OutlawQueen. Yes, they were at each other’s throats, but that was just a burning passion they had no idea how to be adult about…
Regina saving Roland and giving him the toy monkey was not the “you’re not so bad” moment because Robin never had the “I don’t like you nor trust you” moment to begin with. One can not exist without the other. Robin just jumped into the “you’re hot” territory within seconds of meeting Regina for the first time. That initial scene is so awkward by the fact that Sean helps Lana up first and leaves a heavily pregnant Ginny on the ground.
Regina suddenly opening up to Robin when as you say “she has a lot of trouble doing with other people” just reeks of rushed writing. She’s literally just met the guy, why would she be so open with him? Without the “they’re soulmates” excuse, there is no way Regina would let herself be that vulnerable in front of a stranger she doesn’t know that well.
3. Robin’s Reaction To Regina Killing Marian
Ok…once again….even though everyone else probably would have saw the absolute worst in Regina, Robin Hood could still see the best in her despite everything. He knew that Regina was insane, and out of her mind 30 years ago, and that she wasn’t that woman anymore. What did you all expect, for a good hearted man to throw her past up in her face, lash out at her, accuse her of being evil and corrupt like everyone else did in Storybrooke?
I expected Robin to show some actual conflict about the revelation. Not to Regina’s face but to at least express his conflict perhaps to Will. He can still choose Regina, to choose to leave the past in the past, but it would’ve been nice to see him wrestle with that moral conundrum especially as in 3B he described Marian as “beloved”.
What good would come of that? Regina was already tipping on her toes on the border of good and evil in 4A, and it was her love for Robin, Henry, and her family, all who had her back, that kept her grounded on the side of good. Had Robin Hood lashed out at Regina in 4×01 like some of you wanted…then the Evil Queen would have surely been awakened, and it would not have ended well for anyone. But because Robin Hood is an understanding, good hearted man, he didn’t throw her dark past up in her face like the Charmings, Rumpelstilskin, or even her own mother did.
I disagree with this notion because it basically says that Regina’s redemption is reliant on Robin loving her, that she can only be good when she’s in a relationship otherwise she flips out and goes “evil queen” on everybody. Regina’s redemption should be based on her wanting to be good and make up for her past misdeeds, not whether she and Robin have a falling out or not.
That’s one of the things I dislike about Regina in 3B and 4A, how she went from being a strong willed independent woman who could make her own choices to being a woman who had to rely on a man’s love to help her function and be good.
4. OutlawQueen was not an affair…
Ok….Lana Parrilla gave the best explanation that Evil Regals are celebrating her for. OutlawQueen was not an affair because Marian was dead. When she came back, it was pretty much like in the Castaway Movie (Lana is brilliant for this comparison), Robin Hood had moved on with Regina, it’s not his fault Marian came back. Few people expected him to just tell Regina “Well it was fun while it lasted, but I’m going back to my dead wife!”
He mourned Marian, and he moved on….he only went back to her because of his vows that really were terminated thirty years ago, but I’m pretty sure the separation from his soul mate took a strain on his sub-conscious and emotions. He did what everyone wanted him to do…he tried to go back to Marian, he tried to keep his vow, but Regina had his heart. It was something that couldn’t be helped…he couldn’t just sit there and rub Marian’s frozen hands and feet till she defrosted. And that TLK Failing was clear example that it was over between him and Marian who can now just be good friends.
3B OQ was not an affair. 4A OQ kind of was for the reason that Robin chose Marian first then, when she was frozen, went back to Regina. Had he chosen Regina first and explained things to Marian then it wouldn’t have been an affair. This is why I hope OQ do a do over so that they can start again blank slate and pretend that 3B and 4A didn’t happen although with the benefit that Marian is okay with them.
As for him sleeping with Regina, it was something probably long overdue, and to be honest I wouldn’t be surprised if they fooled around back in the EF during that missing year. True…a crypt isn’t probably the most comfortable place to get it on in, but at least we now know she had a bed down there. Marian was in a frozen coma with little hope of ever coming out of it, and OutlawQueen is true love/soul mates, I don’t know…what else could they have done with all of that sexual tension in that small, fire lit room…play a game of Monopoly?
The way Regina was acting towards Robin up to the curse casting I very much doubt they “fooled around” in the EF. If the show goes back and shows us more of the missing bits of the lost year and fills in the blanks and shows us something DID happen and develop between OQ which made Regina act the way she did, doubtful at this point since the show’s moved on, then it wouldn’t seem so rushed but the way it currently stands, OQ did not get very close in the EF.
Also the way that the sex scene went down wasn’t the most romantic. Robin chooses to be with Marian but she gets frozen so he then goes crawling back to the woman he dumped and keeps pursuing her despite her telling him to go back to his wife. He then tells her that she makes him want to forget his honour and moral code and she gives in to his advances.
Robin needed to man up and make the choice between Marian and Regina before Marian got frozen then have the balls to stick to his original choice instead of changing his mind when the first choice didn’t work out for him.
5. True Love vs Soul Mates
Robin and Regina were fated to happen…that has already been stated as canon.
Let’s take a look at the facts…had Regina and Daniel really run off together, we all know it wouldn’t have been long till Cora found them, and the same results would have occurred. The only reason Snow White is responsible is because she couldn’t keep a secret, something that can no longer be denied with the excuse she was a child because even as an adult, she told Emma about Neal being alive the first chance she got. Secrets are not Snow’s strong suit.
Robin and Marian….nine times out of ten, Robin only met Marian because Regina was too scared to meet him. And even still Marian ended up dead, and death has continually tried to kill Marian who will probably be dead by the end of 4B due to some freak accident. Death or Fate is trying his/her best to take Marian out.
Though Daniel and Marian may have once been Robin and Regina’s true loves…they were not their soul mates., and please don’t turn the tables to make Robin and Regina’s characters look bad just because they finally found their soul mate. Regina tried to kill Snow because of her hand in the death of her true love, someone she thought would ever truly love her. Because Regina didn’t meet Robin, he met his true love Marian elsewhere. Though it doesn’t really matter….the Soul Mates have each other now. OutlawQueen does not diminish Marian or Daniel, it just probably stands on higher ground. Could the love be greater…who knows?
“OutlawQueen does not diminish Marian or Daniel, it just probably stands on higher ground.” That is the very definition of diminishing Marian and Daniel. You are elevating OQ to a higher status and thus being “better” because they’re “soulmates” whereas Daniel and Marian were only “true loves”. There is a reason why the true love vs soulmate debate caused such a stir in the fandom because for two whole seasons we were led to believe that true love was the be all and end all of relationships and that Snowing had the most perfect relationship of all because of “true love” and Regina was pissed at Snow because she caused the death of Regina’s true love. Then in the third season, the writers suddenly introduced this new concept of “soulmates”, which hadn’t been even mentioned before prior to the creation of OQ, without explaining what it meant within the grand scheme of things.
6. The Villains Price
Let me start off by saying…yes, Hook gets away scot-free with everything.
But I strongly disagree about Regina who has paid her dues for her past sins. From losing her son on multiple occasions, to being wrongly accused, to losing her mother, her sister, true love twice, and even her soul mate. I don’t feel like listing the rest of them, but we all know she has paid her dues.
Rumple…this is the second time I’ve ever seen him pay for his sins, so he’s not always punished.
Rumple gets punished for everything including when he does good. The stuff that went down with Hook and Milah in the past, came back to bite him when Hook came seeking revenge and even targeted Belle to get back at Rumple. Rumple goes power mad, he loses his son. Rumple sacrifices himself to save everyone, he’s resurrected, enslaved then his son dies. Rumple wants to free himself from the dagger albeit through not above board ways, he gets cast out of Storybrooke.
7. Forgive So You Can Live In Peace, Forget So You Can Move On
Yeah…Regina and Marian are even. She killed her once, and saved her thrice….they’re WAY EVEN!
Marian only missed four years of little Roland’s life, she needs to be grateful she gets to live to see the rest of it, and yes thanks to Regina. Even Marian said that they were even…if she can forgive and forget, I think everyone else should as well!
Marian can forgive and Marian can forget but that does not absolve Regina from the wrong doing in the first place. For example, if you punched someone in the face, you can apologise and they can forgive you and move on, but that still doesn’t remove the fact that you punched them in the face in the first place.
I will admit it, Regina has done terrible things in the past, some even unspeakable, but I choose to also remember that she was an entirely different woman 30 Years Ago. And that Regina has done a lot to save/help the people she once cursed, and inflicted suffer on. I choose to think in the course of an eye for an eye…Regina cursed everyone, she saved everyone, and she’s even put her life on the line many times for her people…does it right the wrong she did in the past, NO it does not, but she cant change that. All she can do is move forward, and help the descendants of the people she’s killed, and the people she’s cursed….that is all she can do to make up for what she did in the past.
Whilst that’s all well and lovely, it still doesn’t negate the fact that Regina did those things in the first place. Regina doesn’t get to go “well I helped an old lady across the road today so that cancels out the murder of my elderly father”. Redemption is an ongoing process, it’s not a game of monopoly where Regina or Rumple or Hook pass go and collect $200.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of Felix
The topic ‘RegalHood: Hopefully A Second Chance at Love’ is closed to new replies.