Regina and Rumplestiltskin-Who’s Worse?Can Either Change?

[hjbau]

That is a really good point, Elle. I totally agree until the characters feel remorse for what they have done they are not going to change. Just acting differently for the sake of others, but not really feeling as if what they have done is wrong is not really redemption.

[surayya]

I agree with Ellie as well- its their thinking of I’m not doing anything wrong that is the biggest issue & what makes them essentially Evil.

[a_desperate_soul]

I think it’s pretty equal. Some fans feel that if one villain is redeemed, then other won’t be. Personally, I think they’ll both redeemed in the end. But in regards to who’s more evil, I really can’t say.

[thedarkone]

@A_Desperate_Soul wrote:

I think it’s pretty equal. Some fans feel that if one villain is redeemed, then other won’t be. Personally, I think they’ll both redeemed in the end. But in regards to who’s more evil, I really can’t say.

I agree. I always laugh whenever I see Regina and Rumpel fans arguing over who’s mor evil. I just wanna smack them upside the head and say THEY BOTH ARE! 😆 But judging from most sites, fans tend to lean slightly more on the “Regina is more evil” side. *Sigh* I don’t get it.

But like you said, they’ll probably both be redeeemd in the end. Rumpel by Baelfire and Belle, and Regina by Henry.

[LisaFromOH]

It looks like Regina is starting on the road to redemption, at least from “We are Both.” Hopefully she will continue down that road. Hopefully when she and Cora come face to face again that will push her towards redemption (from not wanting to be like her mom) instead of towards evil.
No pun intended with the “push.” 😉

[gigi]

The moment she killed her Daddy, there’s no way for her to redeem. She keeps trying to get revenge on Snow, even though it was her mother’s fault and she knew it in the begining. She killed Snow’s dad aka her husband, sent a huntsman to get Snow’s heart, create the curse to seperate her and her daughter, as it wasn’t enough, in the next world, she continues to frame MM for murder. Killed Graham, lured Hansen and Gretal, two kids to the blind witch’s house just to get ..(i forgot get what but it was used for killing for sure). She was cursed by Rum, Charmings helped her, then she decided to kill him as well. If Henry didnt bust in on time, David would be playing cards with Hades. Rumple is evil but atleast he doesn’t kill his father/mother/children.

[keie]

Honestly, I think this question is part of the heart of what this show is about. Yes, it’s about parents and their children but the actual heart of the show to me seems to be does everyone deserve a happy ending? So I guess my answer is… yes, both can and probably will be redeemed….learning from their mistakes BUT they will have to EARN their happy endings. Not by using shortcuts or a magic potion but by actually realizing that it takes hard work.

I think the difference between Regina and Rumple when they ‘turned’ to the dark side is summed up best in one of the BF’s lines to Bae, “You’re that shinning light that keeps a part of him human”. Rumple had his love for his son to keep him from becoming ‘totally evil’. Regina, only had her anger and frustration guiding her (with a bit of a nudge from Rumple it seems like). As far back as having first met Belle, Rumple was calling himself a monster, recognizing that his actions were not good ones. Even now he at least has Belle to tell him that she loves him and is willing against odds to try and be with him.

Regina doesn’t have any of that. She has no one to tell her they love her, they want her to be a better person for her own sake. No one to encourage her to take responsibility for her own actions, except Henry ( and let’s face it he’s a kid who treats her like crap most of the time, lol) to encourage her to try and change her ways and to help her let go of her anger and hate. Not that anyone should be responsible for another persons actions or self-worth but it does help to have people in your corner encouraging you. Heck, EMMA is the closest thing she has to somebody being at the very least, civil, not wanting her dead…..Everyone in SB has a right to be angry with Regina (as well as Rumple) but that’s not very conducive to her having a reason to change.

I do think, we’re seeing a bit of it now with her calling Charming to get Henry, that Regina wants ‘possibly’ to start on the road to redemption and I think eventually she’ll get there. Just like I think Rumple will eventually embrace the ‘goodness’ that’s inside him. It’s just going to take a lot of hard work and missteps before they get there and the both of them get their, happily ever afters.

[Grimmsister]

Is Rumple evil only because he is under a magic spell/cursed to be the dark one ?. Can he then be held responsible for his actions ? or is he a slave to the knife- a puppet. When and if he could ever be uncursed, would all then be forgiven ?

‘It’s not my bad. I had to much to drink’s all..” Well you did choose to take the drink in the first place’. Or did he choose ? Maybe he saw it as his only option to save Bae, he was desperate.

And is that eny different to Reginas situation. Being lured or led as a puppet by Rumple.Into the soulsucking buisness of using black magic.

They do offcourse still seem to have their wits about them. But is it the same wits as it would have been, had they not had these curses put on them ?

Regina is said to have a void in her that can never be filled. That would necessarilly mean she can never be redeemed for herself or by herself, but maybe by others. That in my opinion means she would have to die in order to be fully redeemed. Most fairytales end with the evil characters death. Though this makes me very sad, because she is my favorit character on the show 😥

[RumplesGirl]

In someways, though, they were both puppets on strings. Rumple for the previous Dark One and is now tainted with the evil that comes with being the Dark One (however he is trying to make strides in recovery, like with Belle, but it doesn’t mean he suddenly becomes Mr. Good Guy. He’s still Rumple, after all.) He made bad choices too. But, did he fully realize what being the Dark One would entail? I don’t believe so. And lets not forget, one of the first things he did as the Dark One was to stop the Ogre Wars and bring all the children home. He told Bae before he got the power, “I could turn it toward good.” He fully intended to do good. But like magic and power normally do, they go away from him. And for Regina, she was manipulated by Rumple, but she still made horrible choices. She didn’t have to become Rumple’s apprentice. She chose to do that. She didn’t have to take measures to ensure the curse was enacted. Just like Rumple didn’t have to chose to stay behind instead of going with Bae.

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[beautyistruth]

Yup, I have a post over in “The Doctor” about how both Rumple and Regina were manipulated into their roles by another individual. Doesn’t absolve them of their choices and actions, but it certainly makes both their stories more tragic to me, at least.

Did Rumple fully realize what being the Dark One would entail? Not at all. He never planned to be the Dark One. Re-watching that scene, it’s striking how completely Zozo preys on his fear, panic, and adrenaline by goading him on, questioning Bae’s paternity, telling him that he would never have the courage to control the Dark One. This is still old Rumple, face-to-face with the most powerful and terrifying dark being known. Panic can completely cloud one’s judgement. And even before that Zozo finds him at his most desperate state, when all his other options are gone, and preys on his desperation. Also, it’s striking that Zozo gloats, “looks like you made a deal you didn’t understand.” I’m convinced that his later preference for deals and contracts stems from that moment. That scene is always such a tearjerker for me because no matter what his later actions were, it’s so clear from his reaction when he pulls out the dagger and sees his own name appear, that he in no way wanted to be the Dark One.

Given the absolute change in demeanor from that scene to the next, I’m fairly convinced that the curse exerts some sort of influence on the person it’s attached to. I imagine it’s similar to the Horucrux on Ron in Harry Potter, or the Ring, or Dexter’s Dark Passenger (I always seem to understand works through referencing other works 🙂 ) Yes, he still has free will, but his decision-making is severely compromised. If a redemption story is in the future for Rumple (which I hope), I imagine that the more specific mechanics of the “Dark One” curse will be revealed insofar as how deeply it affects/alters judgement and personality

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