- This topic has 61 replies, 25 voices, and was last updated 12 years ago by
.
-
Posts
-
Yup, I have a post over in “The Doctor” about how both Rumple and Regina were manipulated into their roles by another individual. Doesn’t absolve them of their choices and actions, but it certainly makes both their stories more tragic to me, at least.
Did Rumple fully realize what being the Dark One would entail? Probably not. Re-watching that scene, it’s striking how completely Zozo preys on his fear, panic, and adrenaline by goading him on, questioning Bae’s paternity, telling him that he would never have the courage to control the Dark One. And even before that Zozo finds him at his most desperate state, when all his other options are gone, and preys on his desperation. Also, it’s striking that Zozo gloats, “looks like you made a deal you didn’t understand.”
Given the absolute change in demeanor from that scene to the next, I’m fairly convinced that the curse exerts some sort of influence on the person it’s attached to. I imagine it’s similar to the Horucrux on Ron in Harry Potter, or the Ring, or Dexter’s Dark Passenger (I always seem to understand works through referencing other works 🙂 ) Yes, he still has free will, but his decision-making is severely compromised. If a redemption story is in the future for Rumple (which I hope), I imagine that the more specific mechanics of the “Dark One” curse will be revealed insofar as how deeply it affects/alters judgement and personality
[adrotate group="5"]What BeautyisTruth said. I completely agree with you. And I do think redemption is coming for Rumple. It’s just going to take a long road, which I am fine with, given how fast they’ve made Regina’s arc (which I’m not happy about, way too fast!). He is becoming more honest and open with himself and with those he loves, but it’s not like he’s one of the “good guys” now (if we can even talk about good and bad in a show so smartly and intricately written as OUaT)
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"To be fair, it makes sense that Rumpel’s arc would be longer, seeing as he was deeply immersed in evil magic for over 200 years, whereas Regina had only been doing magic for 20 years max before she got stuck in Storybrooke. But yeah, I hope they don’t rush it, otherwise it’ll feel forced. Maybe they’ll both revert if Cora and Hook make it to Storybrooke.
can they be responsible for their actions if it is so that their Love has been literally ripped from them?
At some point I think it is said that loosing your true love whether it be romantic love or love of a child is like loosing that side of you that is capable of love. Loosing the ability to love or feel compasionate. Thats pretty much the definition of a psychopath, if Im not mistaking.
But that was not who they were before.
Fairytales can be seen in the light that all of the characters within the story is basically different sides of the same person. So having one part of you ripped away- then your not you- and should you ever become the hole you again- how would you then be held accauntable for the actions you took when you were another person ??
😕
Confused? I know I am!
😕I think Regina’s and Rumple’s redemption is going to come down to choice. They need to choose whether or not to redeem themselves. It’s all very well Regina saying she wants to redeem herself but saying it and carrying through are two totally different things.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixI think you are right Price’ This hole thing is about choice and freewill. They dont have to be what the fairytales dictates- That just gave me another thought-
Fairytales… Fairy- Tales…. Its the fairies writing the tales offcourse 😀 Why did i never think of that before!
One thing that struck me, and I’d really love to hear everybody thoughts on this.
There was quite a noticeable reaction of general horror when Rumple killed Milah in the Crocodile. Fair enough. Killing your ex-wife in a fit of anger is really, really bad. Now, I wasn’t part of the online fandom when “Forbidden Fruit” came out, but retrospectively, it doesn’t seem like there was near the amount of horror when Regina emotionally manipulated the genie to murder Leopold. In fact, (and I don’t agree with this at all), quite a few Evil Regals seemed to cheer her on as the tragic, wronged woman who killed her chauvinist pig of a husband.
Even though I know Evil Regals are in the extreme, I do wonder why the fandom in general never seem to cite that moment as a particularly evil moment for Regina, wheres the moment in “The Crocodile” tends to get cited as one of Rumple’s worst moments. Why is that? Sure, Leopold was pretty emotionally absent with Regina, but surely that is nothing compared to how emotionally abusive Milah was to Rumple (and yes, I would make the argument that her treatment of her husband was emotionally abusive. Again, that is not to say that he was justified). Additionally, Rumple’s murder was pretty definitively a passion crime, wheres Regina’s was a premeditated murder. While neither of them are justified, the latter tends to get more harshly punished legally, at least. So, it surprised me that I haven’t once heard Regina’s murder cited as a one of her particularly bad moments.
I mean, ultimately, I don’t think it matters to the plot which of the two is worse… I’ve rambled on about my hope for redemption for both for quite a while. I am, however, interested in exploring why Rumple’s murder gets so much more of a reaction than Regina’s. I have a suspicion that gender bias plays a role in it, which annoys me greatly. Viewers are conditioned to place women in the victim archetype and men in the aggressor archetype, even when the show deliberately subverts that stereotype. Thus, when a man harms a woman, everybody flips out. Wheres when a woman harms a man, no matter how undeserved, the reaction is less intense. That annoys me because you can’t claim gender equality and have that double standard. Maybe I’m wrong, though. Maybe there was a reaction when that episode came out and it has since died down.
Somebody who has been around since then weigh in, please?
On kind of a tangent (since I’ve gotten into the topic of gender biases and this is sort of a pet interest of mine), I’d be willing to bet that the reactions to Rumple killing Milah would have been much more subdued had the genders been flipped. Imagine, since apparently that kingdom was drafting girls as well, that Milah had run away from the war to come home to her husband and child, only to have her husband berate her for being a coward, run off to flirt with women in the tavern and ignore their child. And then publicly insult her, in front of the women he’s flirting with, when she goes to the tavern to ask him to come home. Actually, for the heck of it, imagine if she had made him a cup of tea after that bit of public humiliation, just because I’m sure everybody would have loved that. And suppose he disappears on her and her child. Now imagine Milah had become the Dark One, found her husband, had the duel and the entire magic bean exchange, and he tells he never loved her, in front of the people he abandoned her for. If, at that point, she rips out his heart in anger, I honestly think some people would have cheered. I’m sure people would have eventually agreed that she wasn’t justified, but I don’t think the reaction would have been the same, horrified “holy **** what just happened!?!” reaction.
I’m sorry I cant speak about that crocodile episode because I’ve been unable to watch it (I have to watch on my laptop and some eps. dont work)
But I have to say. I am on Reginas side, maybe partly because I am a woman and can relate to her better perhabs. But those scenes you write about Beautyistruth, did bother me. Because they were truely very evil. And completely selfish acts, also the murder of her father. Where she only thought about how she would be happy and never him.. Bet he wasn’t too happy in that situation they were living either.
But that’s also why I think her character is so interesting. In the end I do think she can be forgiven. But if she goes back to her ‘normal’ compassionate self, I think that redemption, in her own mind- forgiving herself, should be impossible.And then Rumple. Rumple’s character is like he’s been possessed by the devil. With that knife as the symbol of it coming from outside of him, so essentially you could see it as not being a part of him to begin with. And that is opposide Regina where it was sort of born within her…
So I can for sure see redemption coming his way if he hasn’t been completly ‘eaten’ by the devil. There is still lots of the old father Rumplestiltzkin left in him, enough to love Belle and enough to still have hope of finding his son.Also, with full props going to Belle, I’m going to start using the term “rehabilitation” over “redemption.” That to me, is more illustrative of what these two characters are trying to achieve… the ability to develop moral agency and become functioning members of society.
beautyistruth wrote:Also, with full props going to Belle, I’m going to start using the term “rehabilitation” over “redemption.” That to me, is more illustrative of what these two characters are trying to achieve… the ability to develop moral agency and become functioning members of society.Good one ‘rehab’ 😆 goes well with- “Its been two days””That’s an exelent start!”
The redemption word is getting a bit of an old taste.
The topic ‘Regina and Rumplestiltskin-Who’s Worse?Can Either Change?’ is closed to new replies.