Regina Mills/Evil Queen Character Analysis

[WickedRegal]

Hmm for my part WR I guess I just have to say I disagree with you alot on the Regina character. But we love her the same Long Live the Queen ♥

Long Live The Queen 😛

All I’m saying is…yes! Regina was Evil! Yes…Regina made some questionable decisions! And Yes…she earned her title the Evil Queen! But from Season 4 and onwards that determines how she uses the Evil Queen, either as a villain as it was in S1 or a hero as it was in S3.

But at the end of the day, you must admit that it wasn’t entirely her own doing! And that’s the issue some Evil Regals have with Oncers, who don’t want to look at the fact that Regina was probably the one villain dealt the crappiest hand! Once again…not taking away the choices she made, or the responsibilities on her shoulders, but the fact remains that she was backed into a corner with no other way to react without losing, so she did whatever she had to do.

#EvilIsn’tBorn….It’sMade

[RumplesGirl]

Yet none of you still answered my question…where were her options?

I did. Read up.

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[WickedRegal]

Awww…I love you too @RumplesGirl! 😛

1. Regina warned the kids…a dire warning, Touch Nothing. That should have been enough…don’t touch anything. And again, she gave the kids a choice, she didn’t just hurl them through the doorway, and lock it.

2.I never said devotion only to Regina was correct, but if you and your family want to live, then hey, tell the Queen what she wants to know. Go based on whose wearing the crown, not running around.

3. Kingdoms, Kingdoms, Kingdoms, too darn confusing! This is why Storybrooke is a better option!

4. I came up with the Belle logic based on a what if, like what if Regina learned Rumple had tricked her about Daniel. Payback on Belle would return the favor, and in my eyes, Belle was an innocent caught in a crossfire. But we can’t neglect that Rumple did kick Belle out, and had she been really killed by bandits or wolves, things would not have been good. So I tend to look on the bright side, sure Regina locked her away, but at least she gave her a bed, food, and I would say clothing, but I’m not sure on that.

5. The second Regina said “That’s Enough. This ends now.” That was an attempt to stop all of the vengeance, and to let things go. Regina let go of her vengeance on Snow, and I think she expected Rumple to follow his own advice and to let go of his vengeance on Zelena. I truly believe the cycle for revenge would have ended.

6. There are only two ways this Elsa thing goes….either Rumple trapped her, or Elsa sacrificed herself. Following the original Frozen would go with the latter, but knowing Adam and Eddy….I dread Rumple trapped her.

"If you go as far as you can see...you will then see enough to go even further." - Finn Balor

[RumplesGirl]

1. Regina warned the kids…a dire warning, Touch Nothing. That should have been enough…don’t touch anything. And again, she gave the kids a choice, she didn’t just hurl them through the doorway, and lock it

you have children. What happens when you tell them not to touch something. They do it. Why? Because that’s what children do. She gave them a choice but children of this age don’t have the mental faculties of you and I. Children learn by doing both what they are told and more often than not, by doing waht they are told not to do.

4. I came up with the Belle logic based on a what if, like what if Regina learned Rumple had tricked her about Daniel. Payback on Belle would return the favor, and in my eyes, Belle was an innocent caught in a crossfire. But we can’t neglect that Rumple did kick Belle out, and had she been really killed by bandits or wolves, things would not have been good. So I tend to look on the bright side, sure Regina locked her away, but at least she gave her a bed, food, and I would say clothing, but I’m not sure on that.

Interesting that the “bright side of things” just so happens to make your favorite character look like a hero not a captor….

Also, so much wild conjecture on what would have happened to Belle! The episode The Outsider clearly shows that the girl could take care of herself. Something Regina KNOWS given that she took Belle right after she defeated a monster terrorizing a village.

5. The second Regina said “That’s Enough. This ends now.” That was an attempt to stop all of the vengeance, and to let things go. Regina let go of her vengeance on Snow, and I think she expected Rumple to follow his own advice and to let go of his vengeance on Zelena. I truly believe the cycle for revenge would have ended.

I think she wanted that too. I’m not denying that Regina did a good thing and Rumple did a bad thing. But if two wrongs don’t make a right. If Regina were to now go against Rumple for the sake of Zelena, then she’s no better than Rumple killing Zelena for Neal (and yes, I acknowledge that Zelena is not wholly responsible for Neal’s death, but let’s stick with what is in people’s heads and motivations)

 

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[WickedRegal]

WickedRegal wrote:

1. Regina warned the kids…a dire warning, Touch Nothing. That should have been enough…don’t touch anything. And again, she gave the kids a choice, she didn’t just hurl them through the doorway, and lock it

you have children. What happens when you tell them not to touch something. They do it. Why? Because that’s what children do. She gave them a choice but children of this age don’t have the mental faculties of you and I. Children learn by doing both what they are told and more often than not, by doing waht they are told not to do.

WickedRegal wrote:

4. I came up with the Belle logic based on a what if, like what if Regina learned Rumple had tricked her about Daniel. Payback on Belle would return the favor, and in my eyes, Belle was an innocent caught in a crossfire. But we can’t neglect that Rumple did kick Belle out, and had she been really killed by bandits or wolves, things would not have been good. So I tend to look on the bright side, sure Regina locked her away, but at least she gave her a bed, food, and I would say clothing, but I’m not sure on that.

Interesting that the “bright side of things” just so happens to make your favorite character look like a hero not a captor…. Also, so much wild conjecture on what would have happened to Belle! The episode The Outsider clearly shows that the girl could take care of herself. Something Regina KNOWS given that she took Belle right after she defeated a monster terrorizing a village.

WickedRegal wrote:

5. The second Regina said “That’s Enough. This ends now.” That was an attempt to stop all of the vengeance, and to let things go. Regina let go of her vengeance on Snow, and I think she expected Rumple to follow his own advice and to let go of his vengeance on Zelena. I truly believe the cycle for revenge would have ended.

I think she wanted that too. I’m not denying that Regina did a good thing and Rumple did a bad thing. But if two wrongs don’t make a right. If Regina were to now go against Rumple for the sake of Zelena, then she’s no better than Rumple killing Zelena for Neal (and yes, I acknowledge that Zelena is not wholly responsible for Neal’s death, but let’s stick with what is in people’s heads and motivations)

1. True…very true….

4. Funny how we can twist things to make it seem one way instead of what was originally implied. 😛 But Rumple kicking Belle out…that still stands. And really, Regina saved Belle’s life because less we forget, Hook was going to kill her. Though a chess piece, it was her wildcard in case she ever needed to use it. Which means she could have used it at any second in Cursed S1, but apparently Belle was a wildcard Regina was holding for dire dire dire dire dire times.

 

"If you go as far as you can see...you will then see enough to go even further." - Finn Balor

[RumplesGirl]

But Rumple kicking Belle out…that still stands.

Oh absolutely. And he should feel that guilt every day. He let his desire for his son and his magic override true love.

And really, Regina saved Belle’s life because less we forget, Hook was going to kill her

Lol. I’m not likely to forget that. So yes, she did save it on that account. And it was for a selfish reason, not out of the nobility of her heart. So yay for life saving! Boo for sending Hook to kill someone else.

I guess what I’m trying to say, over all, is that when we cover up our favorite’s actions we actually reduce their character and take something away from them. We should acknowledge the horrible nature of Regina’s past actions because they show us how far she’s come. If you simply white wash her away with “she’s a victim and I can see the bright side of everything she’s ever done” then I think you do a disservice to her character. You aren’t called Evil Regals for nothing. You feel in love with Regina, the Evil Queen, the woman in all black who dared to walk into a wedding and curse everyone. We celebrate her snarkiness and her cunning but we can’t go so far as to white wash away her crimes in order to, subconsciously I think, make her into someone we should like.

So many of us like the villains, but we are guilty (all of us! for every villain!) of trying to take away their villiany because then it’s more acceptable to like them. They become flawed anti-heroes, or victims of fate, or lonely broken misunderstood creatures. And while I will acknowledge that all of our “villains” are anti-heroes it doesn’t change the fact that there is an anti in front of the word hero.

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[WickedRegal]

You aren’t called Evil Regals for nothing. You feel in love with Regina, the Evil Queen, the woman in all black who dared to walk into a wedding and curse everyone. We celebrate her snarkiness and her cunning but we can’t go so far as to white wash away her crimes in order to, subconsciously I think, make her into someone we should like. So many of us like the villains, but we are guilty (all of us! for every villain!) of trying to take away their villiany because then it’s more acceptable to like them. They become flawed anti-heroes, or victims of fate, or lonely broken misunderstood creatures. And while I will acknowledge that all of our “villains” are anti-heroes it doesn’t change the fact that there is an anti in front of the word hero.

Now on this I definitely agree…not just the Evil Regals, but Dearies, Swans, Charmers, Snowflakes alike…when it’s concerning our favorites, I will admit, we will pull every excuse out of the book, and can make them seem like a saint or a victim of fate.

No one wants to see their favorite placed on a pedestal, and sadly, it mainly comes down between Regina and Rumple in that sense. The Evil Regals blame Rumple for turning Regina into what she was, and the Dearies use the excuse of him just trying to find his son. But both characters are at fault at a certain percent of their wrong doing, but I just don’t want to see them take the 100% blame when some percent lie upon other characters and their choices.

In the eyes of an Evil Regal, all of it boils down to Snow not being able to keep a secret. And upon her blurting out the NL secret about Neal, we threw the “She was a child” excuse out the window, because it’s just clear that Snow White cannot keep a secret to save her life. So in our eyes, we blame Snow White for the hell Regina went through, but confusingly at the same time grateful because it brought Henry and true family into Regina’s life.

And I am thankful that Regina was the Hero of Season 3, but I much prefer her to be an Anti-Hero rather than a “Mary Sue” as @PriceofMagic would say. 😛 Because if it wasn’t for the Evil Queen in Regina, while they were in NL…I don’t think the Charmings would have made it. So the “Hero” Evil Queen in Regina must stick around!! 🙂

"If you go as far as you can see...you will then see enough to go even further." - Finn Balor

[Grimmsister]

WickedRegal wrote:

But at the end of the day, you must admit that it wasn’t entirely her own doing! And that’s the issue some Evil Regals have with Oncers, who don’t want to look at the fact that Regina was probably the one villain dealt the crappiest hand! Once again…not taking away the choices she made, or the responsibilities on her shoulders, but the fact remains that she was backed into a corner with no other way to react without losing, so she did whatever she had to do.

I dont think any one is denying that the making of the Evil Queen was not entirely Regina’s own doing. I for sure agree that there are many factors that play in to it. Most People dont set out to be evil villains because they enjoy hurting other people.. circumstances, the choices of the people around Regina and Reginas own choices all played into the molding of the Evil Queen.

So we agree ! I think where the difference comes in, is in where we put the emphasis and what story we think is important to tell about her. And I believe it is important to give Regina the power in her own life because she is the only one that can change it for the better, she is the only one that can quit being the victim.

RG wrote:

I guess what I’m trying to say, over all, is that when we cover up our favorite’s actions we actually reduce their character and take something away from them. We should acknowledge the horrible nature of Regina’s past actions because they show us how far she’s come. If you simply white wash her away with “she’s a victim and I can see the bright side of everything she’s ever done” then I think you do a disservice to her character. You aren’t called Evil Regals for nothing. You feel in love with Regina, the Evil Queen, the woman in all black who dared to walk into a wedding and curse everyone. We celebrate her snarkiness and her cunning but we can’t go so far as to white wash away her crimes in order to, subconsciously I think, make her into someone we should like

Preach ! yes yes I agree with this 🙂

[Myril]

Interesting discussion, nice material for any ethics course.

Evil isn’t born, it’s made. I agree with that, but I disagree about where this leads to, what consequences it has. To me it leads to the view, that as evil is made, so is good, there are choices for everybody to make, it leads to the assumption we are responsible for our own actions and not some god or nature or whatever outer force.

Either way, born or made, it can and is read as: Evil is not a choice but something coming onto people. Evil is either destiny, or for the more scientific minds the genes, nature, or people are forced pretty much into it by circumstance, a crappy life, a childhood in hell, someone or something making their lives miserable or by some more powerful people than themselves. The assumption is, as long as it is not of your very own doing, it is not your responsibility.

I don’t agree with that. Higher powers, nature, circumstance, whatever, they might create the moment, set the playing field and the figures to play with, but it is still us making the moves. Nature, circumstances can explain, make me understand, sympathize and see, that likely in the same situation I might have decided and acted the same way, but nothing of that IMO takes away any responsibility. There is always a choice, to act one way or the other. The consequences of the choice might be dire for me or for others, hard to accept, unlikely anything any wants, but that doesn’t change that we have a choice. If someone tells me to kill a person or I would die myself, I still have a choice, to kill that person (dire consequence for them) or to be killed myself (dire consequence for me). As understandable as it is if someone chooses to kill the person and for themselves life, it doesn’t take away responsibility. It means I am not the only one responsible for the death of that person, the one who told me to kill is as well responsible, but it doesn’t change that I had a hand in it.

True, Regina was exploited and manipulated by Rumple to do the dirty work for him. As much as I find it wrong and even outrageous how people are ready to overlook Rumple responsibilities, that doesn’t take away any responsibility Regina has for her choices, No, it was not fair, life is not fair, but she made her choices, she had options, to walk away, to not kill the villagers, to not make Snow eat the apple, to go and kill the witch instead of sending children in. She choose to stick with revenge, to attempt murder of Snow and Charming, to execute people of a whole village, assuming they would withhold information about Snow’s whereabouts and even help her (did they?), Regina made other people suffer and their lives miserable, she exploited and manipulated people herself.

I don’t care here about other people’s guilt, choices, in this moment and thread Regina’s actions are on trial. Whatever explanations and excuses she has for her actions, even might have had some rights as queen to do certain things because law’s of the kingdom allowed it, that is at best important for defining the degree of punishment. The question is: Did Regina right or did she wrong. One can ask that question based on the most common laws in effect around the world (despite differences in detail, nations and cultures share some ideas about what is legit and what not) and/or ethically. We’re talking good and evil here, so it is more about ethics than jurisdiction. It’s a question to ask regardless how much sympathy we might feel with someone.

In my opinion Regina did plenty of wrong things. She send children to get something for her that she needed to take a person out of her way, she exploited them to be able to do more wrong. She took people’s hearts and manipulated them into doing her bidding. She executed a village, and that means that included people who probably couldn’t tell where Snow was nor had helped her, thus innocent people, that is something tyrants do. She didn’t do anything for the sake or good of the people she was queen of, she did it all for her own sake, she didn’t care if the people were doing well, she cared if they love her. Whatever reasons and excuses one can have for everything Regina did, it doesn’t change to me that she did other people wrong, she did evil.

Regina had a very clear moment of choice when she was about to leave the kingdom after she had pushed her mother into the mirror, she first gave Rumple back the book, but he teased her, played her buttons, and Regina choose to stay and learn magic. Rumple didn’t threaten her life, he “just” played her, but she had the choice. Probably she choose magic more in false hope to be able to somehow get her love Daniel back, but there was nothing forcing her to keep on going after Snow, she choose to do so.

Does that make Regina irredemable? I don’t belief in heaven or hell so I don’t belief in redemption. What I do belief in is that people can change, that there is no destiny, and not even nature can stop us from changing, to the worse or to the better. I get why people cling to the idea of a preset fate or destiny, because as long as one can belief they’re destined to have a happy life and everything bad thrown at them is just challenge, temptation, the bad temper of life and the work of some outer evil, there is hope, that things will as miraculously turn to the better as they for the moment seem to be bad. It is quite a relief. As long as one can claim to be on the good end of things in the final moment of judgment day that is, although I am not sure how they can be that sure. What if not? Then they are destined to end in hell, all good deeds useless.

Can Regina reform? Yes, she can change, in that sense she is redeemable. What Regina did in the past is unforgivable, although people can choose to forgive her that even. It is unimportant for Regina’s reform, because that should not be driven by the question if people forgive her her past nor if people ever will like her, love her, be on her side. Regina can do the right things, the good, any time, it is her choice. She did some right things, and regardless that her motivation to do them was sometimes more selfish, driven to do what served her best, that is true for the good guys often enough as well, not holding it against her. Her motivations only make me doubt, how she will eventually chose the next moment, but not assume she will do bad again, it is open in my opinion.

That is why I say, with Marian back in the picture Regina has now a chance to do it right this time. If she truly loves Robin, she will accept whatever choice he will make, show him her love in a productive way and not push the mother of his child out of the way with all means. And if she truly has grown she will not get on the revenge train again, which though doesn’t have to mean that she needs to be big buddy with Emma.

Not that I think the writers will right away let Regina be that bold and generous, she will struggle, there will be drama, her happy ending is likely some seasons away, whatever it will be.

I guess what I’m trying to say, over all, is that when we cover up our favorite’s actions we actually reduce their character and take something away from them. We should acknowledge the horrible nature of Regina’s past actions because they show us how far she’s come. If you simply white wash her away with “she’s a victim and I can see the bright side of everything she’s ever done” then I think you do a disservice to her character. You aren’t called Evil Regals for nothing. You feel in love with Regina, the Evil Queen, the woman in all black who dared to walk into a wedding and curse everyone. We celebrate her snarkiness and her cunning but we can’t go so far as to white wash away her crimes in order to, subconsciously I think, make her into someone we should like.

Would say, subconsciously turn her into someone we are allowed to like, because our super-egos (conscience) tell us, liking a person doing bad things is wrong. Otherwise well said.

¯\_(?????? ?)_/¯

[obisgirl]

Bravo @Myril for that whole post. It was seriously the most sensible and well written meta I have read on this thread.

Bless you for writing it!

[Author]

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