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To me Regina is 100% responsible for her acts. She could have stopped. She could have made other choices. No one held a gun to her head.
Yes, Rumple manipulated her and purposely corrupted her. He is absolutely responsible for that since his goal was to make her evil. So I also hold him responsible for creating and unleashing a monster. To me, he showed depraved indifference to all her victims and that makes him guilty without taking away any of Regina’s responsibility for her acts.
I don’t excuse Regina because of Rumple’s manipulation, but I also don’t excuse Rumple because Regina had a choice. They both knew the consequences of their acts and got exactly what they wanted. Both are at fault. It’s a little weird because to me it’s not like they split blame — one being X% responsible and the other 100-X responsible. They are 100% responsible for their actions. It cumulative, not overlapping.
I agree.
[adrotate group="5"]I think the only think Rumple did was the start the spark, to manipulate Regina and he choose the best time for that her weakest moment. I think Rumple and Regina did have really similar past a selfish parent not having a real family that will make them feel safe. But even though their a**hole parent neither Rumple or Regina choose the wrong path until their heart truly broken by their partners Rumple facing with Milah on JR and loosing Daniel was their turning point,Rumple was aware of that and he always use this awareness against her . I love Regina she is my favorite character but if i am saying that Rumple is responsible for everything he does then Regina is too. And to be honest no matter what we face in life there is no excuse for hurting ourselves or other people.
Regina is responsible for her own doings, no doubt there, but that doesn’t reduce the evil Rumple did to her either. Rumple needed Regina desperate, without (true) love, without support system, any friends, anything that could stop her eventually from casting the Dark Curse, only her father was left as source of love and someone to love, an ingredient needed to cast the curse. Rumple intervened in Regina’s life whenever he had to to keep her on track of her own damnation. He manipulated Jefferson and Frankenstein to give her hope to only take the hope away and make her more hurt and desperate. Right, Rumple never asked her to kill the villagers or Graham (but the unicorn, so who knows what else he would have done or did to teach her what she needed to be his tool), but Rumple created the monster, that had all the means and no scruple to kill. He came and reminded her of the Dark Curse, after he had made sure, that Regina couldn’t attack Snowings in the Enchanted Forest. It was not just a spark, it was more, he kept the fire burning, and then tossed his tool away when she had fulfilled her purpose for him, only kept by his promise to Belle from killing her, though letting the Wrath take her soul would have been probably worse of a fate than death.
If Regina though had any kind of healthy self-esteem and more of a brain, she would at least after the curse have realized, who had manipulated her and everybody else and regretted and stopped blaming and hurting Snowings and others. She would have given it thought, how to make the one truly responsible for her sufferings pay and stopped him from doing more, protect her son from his grandfather. That could have been an Evil Queen to enjoy watching, not the whiny spineless wreck of an abused woman they turned her into. We saw a glimpse of what could have been when Regina fought Pan.
Instead they serve us Regina as some undeserved hero, let her have light powers without her having to work for it. Oh, nice, she experienced true love with Henry, what a gift, but not an ounce of effort on her side, Henry just loves her regardless. Henry the cardboard version of a child, no depth there, no depth of emotions to work with on either side. The writers let Regina shine without her having to work for it – and that is what some people find by now annoying. Turning meanwhile Snow into Regina’s cheerleader while Snow turns her back on her daughter is not helping Regina’s cause.
Regina could have been great and furious, evil in her pursue of taking revenge on Rumple, that could have been a story arc over seasons, while both and the town were distracted and kept busy by other, seasonal villains, telling more of the background, adding depth to the characters, preparing means for the big showdown final of the show, but shimmering through here and there, little moments showing, that Regina is continuously plotting her revenge, while Rumple is working on his defense.
I dislike what they made of Regina. The Regina we have now is rather boring, just another whiny wannabe villain with sob background story. They have a chance with Marian and with bringing in Frozen to still make something of it, although I have a bad feeling.
¯\_(?????? ?)_/¯
Regina is responsible for her own doings, no doubt there, but that doesn’t reduce the evil Rumple did to her either. Rumple needed Regina desperate, without (true) love, without support system, any friends, anything that could stop her eventually from casting the Dark Curse, only her father was left as source of love and someone to love, an ingredient needed to cast the curse. Rumple intervened in Regina’s life whenever he had to to keep her on track of her own damnation. He manipulated Jefferson and Frankenstein to give her hope to only take the hope away and make her more hurt and desperate. Right, Rumple never asked her to kill the villagers or Graham (but the unicorn, so who knows what else he would have done or did to teach her what she needed to be his tool), but Rumple created the monster, that had all the means and no scruple to kill. He came and reminded her of the Dark Curse, after he had made sure, that Regina couldn’t attack Snowings in the Enchanted Forest. It was not just a spark, it was more, he kept the fire burning.
What I’ve been trying to say for the longest! Though Regina may have pulled the trigger on a few of her decisions, Rumple loaded the gun, and placed it in her hands. He set out before Regina was even conceived to make her a monster, and would snuff out anything that could possibly keep her pure. Cora and Snow set Regina on the path of darkness, and Rumple led her down it to the end where she cast his curse, and he’d be damned if she didn’t!
If Regina though had any kind of healthy self-esteem and more of a brain, she would at least after the curse have realized, who had manipulated her and everybody else and regretted and stopped blaming and hurting Snowings and others. She would have given it thought, how to make the one truly responsible for her sufferings pay and stopped him from doing more, protect her son from his grandfather. That could have been an Evil Queen to enjoy watching, not the whiny spineless wreck of an abused woman they turned her into. We saw a glimpse of what could have been when Regina fought Pan. Instead they serve us Regina as some undeserved hero, let her have light powers without her having to work for it. Oh, nice, she experienced true love with Henry, what a gift, but not an ounce of effort on her side, Henry just loves her regardless. Henry the cardboard version of a child, no depth there, no depth of emotions to work with on either side.
Lana Parrilla gave a very detailed analysis on how Adam and Eddy wrote Regina….Regina basically snapped in the mind. And losing any chance of happiness, she used the darkness introduced to her to cloud her heart and her judgment, thus making her blind to the reality of a lot of things. Now I do agree that Post Curse Regina should have really laid into Rumple….but the fact that Rumple is Henry’s grandfather is what I believe stopped her, and Henry is strict on his family. As for the light powers…Regina really did have to work for them. She had to overcome the fear of possibly losing to her sister, overcome the fears of opening herself up to love, and finally get Henry to remember her. Lana confirmed that by Regina breaking the Dark Curse, and her loving Robin and Henry granted her light powers. True Love wasn’t born…it was made.
The writers let Regina shine without her having to work for it – and that is what some people find by now annoying. Turning meanwhile Snow into Regina’s cheerleader while Snow turns her back on her daughter is not helping Regina’s cause. Regina could have been great and furious, evil in her pursue of taking revenge on Rumple, that could have been a story arc over seasons, while both and the town were distracted and kept busy by other villains, telling more of the background, adding depth to the characters, but shimmering through here and there, little moments showing, that Regina is plotting her revenge, while Rumple is working on his defense. The Regina we have now is rather boring, just another whiny wannabe villain with sob background story. They have a chance with Marian and with bringing in Frozen to still make something of it, although I have a bad feeling.
Yeah….some of the people who are finding S3 Hero Regina annoying are ones who wanted Emma to break the curse, and save the day. The others are just wondering what made Regina suddenly a Hero? I personally believe Regina earned every heroic moment in S3, because she’s evolved in such a way to where she’s not just the Evil Queen…she’s just The Queen. Whiny…wannabe…HA! This is the Evil Queen we’re talking about…who is very Bold and Audacious as a handsome thief once said. The Charmings wouldn’t have survived one hour in Neverland without Regina, and SB would more than likely be destroyed if it wasn’t for Regina. Because Zelena would have still taken Emma’s magic, leaving everyone defenseless. And as Rumple and Regina once agreed…they are two of the most powerful sorcerers in the land, and Rumple was being controlled…Regina was the only one who stood a chance at defeating Zelena. Therefore…Regina is a hero.
"If you go as far as you can see...you will then see enough to go even further." - Finn Balor
I would like Regina to be what some see in her already, but that is not what I see on screen, there I see a different Regina, one I think is not interesting and a mediocre version of what could be.
If the writers had the intention to not just make it look like the light powers were thrown like some undeserved gift at Regina they pretty much failed to convey that. I didn’t see it. Problem: They assume that just because someone is bloodrelated there is some sort of magic special connection, or why else should Regina have cared the least bit about Zelena? Why should she fear to lose someone she never really had nor knew? Common societal image, blood is thicker than blabla. Which is rather funny to insist on seeing that Regina is not bloodrelated to Henry and still it is said he is all she cares about. She cares about Henry because she has build a connection with him.
Regina only saved the day because the others were made weak, Snow made stupid pregnancy brain (another stupid cliche), Charming brave knight but that is never enough to stop an evil witch, Hook was love puppy, and conveniently Emma had to give up her powers for love, while Regina was allowed to gain additionally powers through love. The character earned nothing, she was the lucky fool turned hero because someone had to stop the bad lady in the end. If she’d cared about Zelena because of seeing a variation of what was done to herself in her, felt pity for her regardless that she was her sister, and felt awful because she nevertheless had to stop Zelena by any means, maybe that could have been called progress – but that is not what I saw happening in this second half of the season.
As I said, we saw a glimpse of furious great Evil Queen in Neverland, when she was fighting Pan. But again the others were made look like stumbling fools most of the time, until all of a sudden, poof, in a team effort they succeeded in Neverland and even were able to leave together, but it was easy for Regina to shine, there was not much of a serious competition. Including Rumple, who turned into a whimpering boy in a man’s body for most of the time, which made even sense, different from what they did to other characters, but the execution was measly and only carried by Carlyle’s acting.
And then Regina, who raised Henry, doesn’t noticed at all the changes in the boy? It would have been the chance for the writers to show, how well Regina might know her son, instead they pretty much proved the opposite
I don’t mind, that they let Regina play hero, I mind how they do it, it’s more drama queen than a character owning herself. I saw great potential in the character, but they’ve made her some mushy drama queen playing the hero of the day. I never disliked the character, there was great potential in it, but I dislike what has been made of the character.
It is telling IMO, that so many instantly assumed, that Regina will now go after Emma after Emma destroyed her happiness nearly like Snow did so many years back (at least this time the lover is not dead, yet). Does that show that people have a feeling that Regina changed, that there is development, grow in the character? No, obviously people jump to a different conclusion. Either that is because the audience is narrow-minded or the writers failed to communicate changes they think Regina has made. The problem is not, what the character could be, but, as with all other characters, what they make plausible and visible on screen. That people expect the more negative reaction of Regina might be a mix of both, people sticking to prejudices and failure of the showmakers to transport their ideas of the story in the story. The Queen you want to see is a nice idea I could live with, but she is not there IMO.
I loved Xena, who I think did a lot more evil evil things in her life than Regina did so far and without any childhood traumata as cheap excuse. In that Regina reminds more of Callisto, who was a great character until they came up with the stupid Eve story arc. Even turning Callisto into an Angel was something I could live with, but not anymore with what followed. The difference IMO is, that Xena and Callisto, even despite her sob childhood story, both owned their evilness and themselves. I don’t see that with Regina. There are glimpses, and maybe they think she is like these characters, but then she is again more Drama than Evil Queen.
It is like they invited us to a fireworks show but then deliver a flower show, or at least I understood the invitation as one to a firework, maybe I misunderstood. But doesn’t change that instead of fireworks were getting a flower shower. Could be nice to, but it is something different.
¯\_(?????? ?)_/¯
That explanation….God!! @Myril, can I please just hug you for that! That was a brilliant analysis! A lot of things that you just said, I agree with! Just like I wish, ohhhh I wish they had started the Outlaw Queen relationship in either NL or in the year before, as a sort of build up to their love, but Outlaw Queens settled with the “s” tension and the sassiness/flirtation in EF, but I agree that the possibility of Regina having light magic should have been hinted a bit early on…heck she could have used it to defeat Pan, giving the viewers a glimpse at the possibility so it wouldn’t come as such a shock when Regina defeated Zelena. But then there was Plot so Zelena couldn’t know Regina had light magic.
I hope…I just hope Regina doesn’t become “Hero” only type of Queen because that would get boring, she’d become another Charming, and that would be a slap in the face to the Evil Regals. The “Evil” side of Regina is what saved everyone, and got them out of NL, and helped them survive that one year in EF. I feel that the writers need to show that one Hero, who will do both good and bad things to get results…that person is Regina, the Bad Cop of her family. The cop who gets results! It would show that a once villain can be both good and bad. Doing bad things in the name of good should be how Regina operate now. The Charmings can’t torture people for info…let Regina and Rumple handle that!
And as for the Writers…they’ve sparked a new flame in me. Lana Parrilla confirmed that she had to fight the Executive Producers for Henry and Regina’s relationship, meaning that there is a possibility Adam and Eddy would have just disregard Regina’s maternal relations to Henry….so thank god that Lana Parrilla fought for that!
-I seriously now question Adam and Eddy….
"If you go as far as you can see...you will then see enough to go even further." - Finn Balor
I hope…I just hope Regina doesn’t become “Hero” only type of Queen because that would get boring, she’d become another Charming, and that would be a slap in the face to the Evil Regals. The “Evil” side of Regina is what saved everyone, and got them out of NL, and helped them survive that one year in EF. I feel that the writers need to show that one Hero, who will do both good and bad things to get results…that person is Regina, the Bad Cop of her family. The cop who gets results! It would show that a once villain can be both good and bad. Doing bad things in the name of good should be how Regina operate now. The Charmings can’t torture people for info…let Regina and Rumple handle that!
I agree. Let Regina put the darkness inside her to good use. The Evil Queen will always be a part of Regina but that doesn’t mean she has to be bad. Regina should never ever be Snow White mark 2.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixI got a question about Regina. It’s about her heart. Last time we got a really good look at it (Quite the Common Fairy, 3×03), it was dark but once she started talking about her love for Henry, it started to get brighter. And now that Regina has light magic, what do you think her heart looks like now? It can’t still be fully dark.
She has a true love in Henry and another potential true love in Robin.
I got a question about Regina. It’s about her heart. Last time we got a really good look at it (Quite the Common Fairy, 3×03), it was dark but once she started talking about her love for Henry, it started to get brighter. And now that Regina has light magic, what do you think her heart looks like now? It can’t still be fully dark. She has a true love in Henry and another potential true love in Robin.
It cannot be fully dark, no. But I don’t think it can ever go back to being “pure.” That feels like erasing your sins, instead of learning to live with what you’ve done. The same goes for Rumple and even Snow’s little spot (and yes, I know there was some question about that after 319).
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"
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