- This topic has 40 replies, 10 voices, and was last updated 9 years, 8 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
This just occurred to me earlier tonight. It’s about Regina learning magic in the Enchanted Forest.
Okay, so following Regina’s timeline thus far, from season one:
The Stable Boy (1×18) – Daniel dies. Regina has to marry Leopold. Snow is 11.
We Are Both (2×02) – Regina expels Cora to Wonderland, begins learning magic under Rumple. Snow is still young. Snow is 11/maybe 12.
Quite the Common Fairy (3×03) – Regina is still taking lessons from Rumple but is getting annoyed about it and wants options. Snow is still young. (11/12).
The Doctor (2×05) – Regina is struggling learning magic. We find out what’s keeping her back is letting go of Daniel. By the end of the episode, Regina is full on Evil Queen mode. (Remember this, because it’s important when you consider The Doctor picks up after ‘We Are Both’).
Enter the Dragon (4×14) — This is where is gets weird. Because at this point in the timeline, Snow is already an adult. Aurora is an adult and we know Aurora was put under the sleeping curse prior to the casting of Regina’s curse. So, this is maybe a year or two before the events of the pilot.
But this is my issue, why is Regina still struggling with magic by this point if she already became a pro in “The Doctor” (2×05)? It doesn’t make any sense for Regina to still be struggling with magic, especially when you consider it’s close to the casting of the Dark Curse?
I’m not crazy, right?
Here’s something else to consider. What comes after 4×14.
1.12 – Skin Deep – This is at least a year before the curse. Rumple expels Belle from the Dark Castle. (Regina wears black when she visits Rumple; no more innocent girl look from The Stable Boy).
1.14 – Dreamy – Belle meets Dreamy and she encourages him to be with Nova. (Dreamy is a year old at this point).
2.11 – The Outsider – The day after meeting Dreamy, Belle learns about the hunting party wanting to kill the yaoguai. Regina captures Belle. Philip is the yaoguai.
1.02 – The Thing You Love The Most – Regina steals back the Dark Curse from Mal because the sleeping curse failed. (Charming broke it in “A Land Without Magic,” 1×22).
I also find that Regina’s wardrobe is not consistent going forward. By 4×14, Regina should have been as gothic looking as Mal.
[adrotate group="5"]I think enter the dragon is before the doctor, I think she wanted to Kill Snow, but not the horse…lol. My assumption is that she went back and forth with being evil, but Daniel pushed her over the edge. Her outfits I think reflect that throughout the years as her struggling with her inner goodness. (And she had a lot of clothes.)
I am a nerd at heart.
But this is my issue, why is Regina still struggling with magic by this point if she already became a pro in “The Doctor” (2×05)? It doesn’t make any sense for Regina to still be struggling with magic, especially when you consider it’s close to the casting of the Dark Curse?
My impression was that by the end of “The Doctor” Regina had overcome her qualms about using magic. That doesn’t mean she had mastered it by then though. I had always assumed Regina would have been better at magic by the time of “Enter the Dragon,” but I don’t see why she had to have been. I assume most of the Regina flashbacks we’ve seen where she is full on evil and/or doing magic occurred in the one or two years before she cast the Dark Curse except for 1×20, 2×02, 2×05, 3×03, 4×14, etc.
I think Enter the Dragon is after the Doctor (I’ll look more closely when I get there–I’m about 10 eps behind right now), and probably also after the events in Zelena’s flashbacks.
I don’t think Snow is an adult. I’d place her around 15-17 in that ep. You notice that while Ginnifer is playing her, you don’t actually get a close up at all; I think that suggests that she’s meant to be a bit younger than Ginnifer could believably portray, but definitely older than 10yo Snow. (After all, 17yo Emma’s played by Jennifer Morrison, even though 14-15yo Emma is Abby Ross. Both slightly realistic, as most people reach physical maturity between 14-17, and convenient.)
Regina has ALWAYS been quick to shift back and forth on things. One minute she’s Rumple’s student, another she’s trying to outsmart him, and then she’s back to him for help. She has a quick temper and we’ve seen how fast she can switch between villain and hero before, even literally changing the kind of magic she uses. I don’t think her impatience with Rumple’s teachings is at all OOC if she’s been studying with him for five years and doesn’t feel like she’s progressing.
We’ve also seen that she struggled to use magic, for both mommy-issue reasons and reasons that are intrinsic to who she is (Plot, WR’s theory about Regina being naturally a light magic user, whatever it is). She struggles to use it the first time against Cora, she struggles to use it in Zelena’s flashbacks, she’s struggling with it in The Doctor, and she’s not paying much attention to her lessons in Quite a Common Fairy (the order I think I’ve got them in–I put 303 when Snow is about 12 and a half). By the time Snow’s 15ish, she’s been dealing with Rumple and being Snow’s ignored Mommy for what feels like AGES.
But this is still a LONG time before the Curse. And we see foreshadowing of the Evil Queen even in the moment when she tells Rumple (before she even marries Leo) that she doesn’t want to use magic again because she LOVED it. It’s not instantaneous in The Doctor–she’s still years away from becoming as evil as she ultimately does.
There’s already twitter evidence (I think it was one of the writers) stating that Aurora and Phillip were agewise in stasis while under their respective curses; they just started earlier than we thought. (And I still believe someone breaks Aurora’s curse before 102 when Regina reclaims The Curse from Mal, which is still 9 months before The Curse is cast, and then is put under a stronger version–but my evidence for that is a very slender hope that they’ll connect all the dots eventually.)
Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing
I said this last week on the thread about favorite and least favorite moments of ep 14, but I will say it again here, with a minor adjustment regarding the difficulty of ripping out hearts and her speed of learning, and some extra detail:
I think that the timeline goes something like this.
1) Regina marries Leopold and starts her tuition with Rumple.
2) Regina fails to resurrect Daniel.
3) Regina loses interest in magic. Regina runs out of the tavern.
4) Regina starts again by ripping that gypsy girls heart out. (At first I thought it was more advanced than fireballs, but because it seems to be one of the the first things Rumple taught her, it mustn’t be…also from this stage onwards, I think she was able to perform things one-off but not consistently and in succession).
Regina dons a black dress as a one off for extra emphasis that she is serious about learning magic again.
(This means there is a gap of several weeks or months between the resurrection attempt and Regina ripping that girl’s heart out).
5) Snow becomes a teenager (not an adult). Regina is pretty far gone because this the first time we saw Regina *actually mention revenge, not just her disgust with Snow*. Regina still dresses in her riding gear most of the time because it is more comfortable to wear in the forest, and perhaps disguises her a bit too. We can also see from her facial expressions and the way she smiles that she is further into the darkside than when she banished Tinkerbell. Regina meets Mal.
Her not being sure of Rumple’s tutelege might put ep 14 after she ran out of the tavern, and before she took up lessons with Rumple again. *However, perhaps she wavered twice, because she was not progressing as fast as she thought she would after giving Rumple another chance*.
6) Regina chases Snow out of the castle. The villagers hear about Snow’s story and grow to hate Regina. Regina wants to go undercover as a peasant and *asks Rumple to help disguise her* because Regina can’t even change her hair color at this point, which appeared to be an advanced spell, but after 8 years of lessons this is nonetheless too slow.
I guess Regina was a slow learner and then just after the episode when is disguised as peasant, she embraced the ”evil queen” label fully and then her magic, (driven by her emotions behind embracing her new role) all came together for her. It could be argued that the day she crushed that gypsy girl’s heart was the day she went over to the dark side, but perhaps she really needed to embrace this darkness completely before her ability leapt to the level of a master.
Originally, I was also surprised that Regina was so bad at magic at this point in time, but thinking back to when Rumple had to help her disguise herself as a peasant, it now all fits.
As a side note, on a different fanboard about 18 months ago I put forward that maybe Regina was a slow learner of dark magic because it was not her original nature…that she would have been better at light magic instead.
Keeper of Regina's bravery
As a side note, on a different fanboard about 18 months ago I put forward that maybe Regina was a slow learner of dark magic because it was not her original nature…that she would have been better at light magic instead.
I like the idea that she was meant for light magic which she seems to be using now.
And I still believe someone breaks Aurora’s curse before 102 when Regina reclaims The Curse from Mal, which is still 9 months before The Curse is cast, and then is put under a stronger version–but my evidence for that is a very slender hope that they’ll connect all the dots eventually.)
I’m holding out for this with you. I really don’t think they’d make the 100 years comment if what you said isn’t the case.
No I think this is a pretty big timeline issue. Lana deliberately chose to use Young! Regina’s voice during a lot of this and the costume was more Stable Princess than it was EvilQueen. After the Doctor, Regina was in all black because she’d gone dark side and killed a person, had her Evil Queen voice and was ripping out hearts. This episode…she can’t make a fireball. The issue is Snow. If it wasn’t for a much older Snow White–in the Doctor Snow was still young enough that she would have been played by Bailee. This is one of those instances where they should have cut out that moment of Snow riding through the glen.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"This just occurred to me earlier tonight. It’s about Regina learning magic in the Enchanted Forest. Okay, so following Regina’s timeline thus far, from season one: The Stable Boy (1×18) – Daniel dies. Regina has to marry Leopold. Snow is 11. We Are Both (2×02) – Regina expels Cora to Wonderland, begins learning magic under Rumple. Snow is still young. Snow is 11/maybe 12. Quite the Common Fairy (3×03) – Regina is still taking lessons from Rumple but is getting annoyed about it and wants options. Snow is still young. (11/12). The Doctor (2×05) – Regina is struggling learning magic. We find out what’s keeping her back is letting go of Daniel. By the end of the episode, Regina is full on Evil Queen mode. (Remember this, because it’s important when you consider The Doctor picks up after ‘We Are Both’). Enter the Dragon (4×14) — This is where is gets weird. Because at this point in the timeline, Snow is already an adult. Aurora is an adult and we know Aurora was put under the sleeping curse prior to the casting of Regina’s curse. So, this is maybe a year or two before the events of the pilot. But this is my issue, why is Regina still struggling with magic by this point if she already became a pro in “The Doctor” (2×05)? It doesn’t make any sense for Regina to still be struggling with magic, especially when you consider it’s close to the casting of the Dark Curse? I’m not crazy, right? Here’s something else to consider. What comes after 4×14. 1.12 – Skin Deep – This is at least a year before the curse. Rumple expels Belle from the Dark Castle. (Regina wears black when she visits Rumple; no more innocent girl look from The Stable Boy).
1.14 – Dreamy – Belle meets Dreamy and she encourages him to be with Nova. (Dreamy is a year old at this point). 2.11 – The Outsider – The day after meeting Dreamy, Belle learns about the hunting party wanting to kill the yaoguai. Regina captures Belle. Philip is the yaoguai. 
1.02 – The Thing You Love The Most – Regina steals back the Dark Curse from Mal because the sleeping curse failed. (Charming broke it in “A Land Without Magic,” 1×22). 
I also find that Regina’s wardrobe is not consistent going forward. By 4×14, Regina should have been as gothic looking as Mal.Great observations! I believe things are somehow shifting or have shifted or have shattered. The same observations you are seeing with Regina are also evident in long haired David’s story with Anna vs The Shepherd. I believe we either have the same people shifting through A.U. or we have several A. U.’s going at the same time. I think things are about to get very interesting and I think it has been planned from the beginning. The writers have said that by the end of this season we will go back and look at everything differently. I am really looking forward to this next set of shows. There is a saying, “one action…one million consequences…and I’m not sure who did the action but I think it is going to be something we never suspected. I think it may even be possible that we will find out that somehow the Hero’s actions were the catalyst for the creation of the Villains.
Twitter - @Milkglass123
No I think this is a pretty big timeline issue. Lana deliberately chose to use Young! Regina’s voice during a lot of this and the costume was more Stable Princess than it was EvilQueen. After the Doctor, Regina was in all black because she’d gone dark side and killed a person, had her Evil Queen voice and was ripping out hearts. This episode…she can’t make a fireball. The issue is Snow. If it wasn’t for a much older Snow White–in the Doctor Snow was still young enough that she would have been played by Bailee. This is one of those instances where they should have cut out that moment of Snow riding through the glen.
I believe the moment of Snow riding through the glen was the most purposeful moment of the show. It is the moment that lets us all know that something has happened and something is off. I believe the writers inserted it intentionally.
Twitter - @Milkglass123
I think that parallels Snow’s riding through the glen when she was ten; that’s about it. We’ve also seen Emma do powerful magic and backslide in times of stress. Heart pulling magic is not the same as fireball magic, either.
I agree that Regina in 414 DOES seem younger in some ways than Regina at the end of The Doctor, but I still think The Doctor has to come first.
It’s possible that it’s the other way around–303, 414, then 205.
Right now I have things more or less this way (and I’ve only just finished timelining 405, so I haven’t gotten to 414 yet):
-215 (The Queen is Dead) flashbacks, the last scenes interspaced with
-118 (The Stable Boy) flashbacks
-202 (We Are Both) flashbacks
-Regina marries Leo (offscreen, after meeting Rumple on the road)
-316 (It’s Not Easy Being Green) flashbacks
-212 (In the Name of the Brother) flashbacks, interspaced with
-320 (Kansas) flashbacks that show Regina learning to make fire and interspaced with
-205 (The Doctor) flashbacks (and back to In the Name of the Brother at the end)
-303 (Quite a Common Fairy), where it feels that Regina and Leo have been married for some time.Currently, I think 414 has to come after 303, but I’m not seeing clear evidence for the order of 205, 303, and 414 yet. It is clear that 303 and 414 take place some years after Regina marries Leo, and I’m not sure Regina would have even considered Tink’s suggestion before The Doctor made her give up on Daniel. The last we saw of Regina with little Snow was in 202, so I could see arguments in either direction.
What makes me most believe that 414 comes after the Doctor is that Regina did curse Snow’s horse. In 205, she wasn’t willing to hurt the horse that Rumple had her controlling. We know by the time she casts the curse she was willing to kill her OWN horse, so this seems like a logical progression to me. She’s willing to curse Snow’s horse to a hundred-year nap because it will hurt Snow. And by 414 she’s focused on her revenge; in 205, she’s still hoping that magic can restore Daniel. 303 seems like a middle ground where she’s frustrated but unfocused.
Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing
The topic ‘Regina's Learning Magic Timeline Issue’ is closed to new replies.